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Maroon is the color of death for the Sani Sabik? (The Burning Life, p. 45)

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Author Topic: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE  (Read 5459 times)

Silas Vitalia

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JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« on: 01 Oct 2014, 12:03 »

Very interesting.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/long-distance-travel-changes-inbound/?_ga=1.197865135.1881087159.1412186172

Of course they giveth with one hand and take away with the other. 

Adding jump fatigue and slowing down capital ship travel, +10 doubleplussgood.

Letting capital ships use stargates?  Sigh.   :psyccp:
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kalaratiri

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #1 on: 01 Oct 2014, 12:37 »

Quote from: CCP Greyscale
We will be releasing a collection of other smaller changes in Phoebe that will be of interest to many of the same people who are affected by these travel changes. These include a rebalance of starbase weapons, a rebalance of stealth bombers and heavy interdictors, enabling of lowsec doomsdays, and changes to interdictor bubble mechanics. More information to come.

Pls no.
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"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani

PracticalTechnicality

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #2 on: 01 Oct 2014, 12:48 »

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA HOHOHOH HAHAHAHA *SNORT*

*clicks unsub*

So, about them games that would not have been competition for CCP if they didn't make choices like this?

Even with the JF buff, my casual null industry operation becomes untenable due to 'screensaver' game play.  So, see y'all in Elite I guess :)

Link for maximum kek factor:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rDMQpeKE-HzGKmFRTR69HJCk4McHyHz020Qs4Rgg414/edit#gid=0
« Last Edit: 01 Oct 2014, 12:50 by PracticalTechnicality »
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Louella Dougans

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #3 on: 01 Oct 2014, 12:56 »

I thought jump freighters get some kind of bonus, so they're not affected as much ? Or is it that bad, even with the jump freighters not getting as much jumpfatigue as other ships ?
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Merdaneth

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #4 on: 01 Oct 2014, 12:58 »

Finally!

It was high time they removed the ability to airdrop Tiger Tanks anywhere across the Russian front in a manner of minutes.

Yes, it will change your gameplay, that is the whole idea.

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PracticalTechnicality

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #5 on: 01 Oct 2014, 13:01 »

I thought jump freighters get some kind of bonus, so they're not affected as much ? Or is it that bad, even with the jump freighters not getting as much jumpfatigue as other ships ?

Pivotal word being 'affected as much'.  Due to work my play needs to give me more per minute to be worth it.  This could be great for EVE (as in it become a low population cult game that is manageable more so than it is now), but it is terrible for my requirements. 

As a result, I wish CCP the best, but I have 13 days till I dedicate myself to Alien Isolation and Elite.  Prepare for tech 2 becoming stupidly expensive and a massive spike in rare mineral worth.  Consider this my parting gift!
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Merdaneth

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #6 on: 01 Oct 2014, 13:03 »

Letting capital ships use stargates?  Sigh.   :psyccp:

I was always a proponent of the solution to let them use stargates and remove their jumping ability entirely.

A war is more interesting when capital ships are tactical local assets. Not the space-age equivalent to aircraft carriers. The heaviest hitters being among the slowest creates interesting tactical gameplay. The idea of geography affecting travel is also basic interesting tactical gameplay. Such things create interesting choices, multiple solutions to the same problem, instead of one optimal solution.

Just take a step back and try to realize why World War II games are popular and World War I games aren't. You'll figure it out.
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Merdaneth

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #7 on: 01 Oct 2014, 13:08 »

Pivotal word being 'affected as much'.  Due to work my play needs to give me more per minute to be worth it.  This could be great for EVE (as in it become a low population cult game that is manageable more so than it is now), but it is terrible for my requirements. 

I applaud you for having found a niche in EVE in which you can achieve what you want without a lot of idle time. Just try to PvP for a change, if you think waiting a couple of minutes between the next challenge is a major roadblock to gameplay.

And of course, the introduction of Jump Freighters did nothing to add subscribers, people flew in regular freighters long before that. It does make scaling operations upward more difficult, and in turn result in smaller concentrations of players and operations. That is intentional I think. It also is benificient to the game. Smaller groups means each individual is more significant to the rest of the group, and feels more significant. And the game is primarly about empowerement.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #8 on: 01 Oct 2014, 13:09 »

I thought jump freighters get some kind of bonus, so they're not affected as much ? Or is it that bad, even with the jump freighters not getting as much jumpfatigue as other ships ?

Pivotal word being 'affected as much'.  Due to work my play needs to give me more per minute to be worth it.  This could be great for EVE (as in it become a low population cult game that is manageable more so than it is now), but it is terrible for my requirements. 

As a result, I wish CCP the best, but I have 13 days till I dedicate myself to Alien Isolation and Elite.  Prepare for tech 2 becoming stupidly expensive and a massive spike in rare mineral worth.  Consider this my parting gift!

just how much of the T2 industry is controlled by you? :O

also, have fun with stuff :)
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #9 on: 01 Oct 2014, 13:57 »

I've been saying it for years but rapid force projection has always been the #1 problem with EVE.  It turns interesting and tactical gameplay decisions into instant teleport your fleet stupidity.


Now the obvious counter is going to be 'jump alts'

Null blocs will immediately require all cap pilots to have jump trained capital travel alts spooled up with 0 fatigue to chain the ships across the same space.

Jump fatigue should be tied to the character AND the ship.

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Jace

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #10 on: 01 Oct 2014, 14:08 »

Just take a step back and try to realize why World War II games are popular and World War I games aren't. You'll figure it out.

+1
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PracticalTechnicality

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #11 on: 01 Oct 2014, 14:11 »

I thought jump freighters get some kind of bonus, so they're not affected as much ? Or is it that bad, even with the jump freighters not getting as much jumpfatigue as other ships ?

Pivotal word being 'affected as much'.  Due to work my play needs to give me more per minute to be worth it.  This could be great for EVE (as in it become a low population cult game that is manageable more so than it is now), but it is terrible for my requirements. 

As a result, I wish CCP the best, but I have 13 days till I dedicate myself to Alien Isolation and Elite.  Prepare for tech 2 becoming stupidly expensive and a massive spike in rare mineral worth.  Consider this my parting gift!

just how much of the T2 industry is controlled by you? :O

also, have fun with stuff :)

Next to none, but consider it a free, if obvious, market tip - I'll be dropping into carbides big time due to the logistics involved in transporting them making it uneconomical to move them without a big hike in value.  Locking up all that value for if I ever bother to return, otherwise it'll make a nice stasis casket for Ael :P.
« Last Edit: 01 Oct 2014, 14:16 by PracticalTechnicality »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #12 on: 01 Oct 2014, 14:19 »

Just take a step back and try to realize why World War II games are popular and World War I games aren't. You'll figure it out.

+1

I've always been a strong proponent of the EVE sov game reflecting a more 'strategic' and slow approach than the current incarnation.

Geography should matter. Distance should matter.  Committing forces in one location should take time, effort, and mean those forces are NOT available to do things elsewhere.   

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Havohej

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #13 on: 01 Oct 2014, 16:02 »

So when I finally put Havo in a Nidhoggur, I won't get instantly hotdropped?  Nice.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: JUMP DRIVE FATIGUE
« Reply #14 on: 01 Oct 2014, 16:32 »

These are a mixed bag.

First off, re: Jump Freighters: They get a bonus which decreases the jump delay time, which helps. However, their range has been vastly scaled back along with all other capital ships, meaning you will be making a lot more jumps. IMO, they should have a somewhat increased range or some other way to compensate (Jump Drive range rigs?).

In general I approve of the limitations to rapid jumps as a means to limit force projection. I feel that they also miss another critical point of the current capital dominance, though: The ability to rapidly jump large numbers of ships to a specific location with pinpoint accuracy. There was a suggestion a while back which I still favor that involved having ships come in at an increasingly wide spread as more jumps to a single cyno were performed, making it difficult to coordinate ranges if you are delivering tens if not hundreds of capitals to a single battlefield.


Some of the others make me wonder if CCP has a single solid vision for 0.0. For example, many of these changes are poised to make certain regions of nullsec virtually impossible to hold paths open to from highsec without buddying up to alliances holding empire border regions; yet, at the same time, they have wiped out deathcloning (a tactical choice that I felt had appropriate costs to its benefits) which was a major way new players were directed to reach deep-null stations to join up with their alliances. This seems to run counter to the stated need to break up big coalitions.

On its own I don't have a huge issue with certain "deep-null" regions being cut off, but then they need to make sure the other design changes are in line with that vision.

Other stuff, in sequence:

- Low Sec DDs: Under the proposed system, there would be little to stop the prevalance of "drive-by doomsdaying" - jumping in, firing off a quick doomsday, warping out as soon as the 30s timer is up, and getting clear. It basically forces anyone who is living in low and wants to use a capital to own a heavy interdictor and be friends with someone who can kill a titan. Not sold on this one.

- Caps using gates: Decided meh on my part. I don't think anyone will actually use them to move long distances (seriously, has anyone here flown even a battleship 30 jumps since the warp speed nerfs?) but it's a nice benefit to being able to move them a couple systems without spending isotopes or getting a timer.

- Black Ops nerf: Entirely unnecessary and runs counter to the idea of black ops as a deep-striking but fragile and expensive ship. Needs to be reverted. 

- Stealth Bomber changes: Hopefully this will somehow nerf the ISBoxer Bomber fleet. While coordinated bombing runs are awesome, 40 bombers being run by a single player is not.

- Interdictor changes: Except for fixing hobo jamming, I'm not sure what needs to be done here.

- Starbase Weapons rebalance: Awwwwwww yissssss. I've been saying for years that Starbase Gunnery was a good - even fun - role, and mourning its passing. Hopefully CCP will be giving those deathstars some teeth again.

I've some other thoughts on some of the greater mentalities that these changes may run into, but they'll have to wait until later.
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