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Author Topic: How do you feel about the current state and direction of the EVE IP  (Read 20443 times)

Jace

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No, I mean when I'm actually typing.  Seriously, I could throw down a whole paragraph describing Constantin's sword without breaking a sweat, with elements of it relating to his personality and reflecting the duality of his existence.

Remember, I used to have to show character dynamics through actions, sometimes, without saying anything.  If there's one thing that annoys me, it's that I don't have recourse to that while I'm RPing.  I have to abbreviate quite a bit, and I think there's something lost when you can't write a lot.  It probably comes from where I'm from; I've DMed a lot as well as freeform.  People get really bored if you don't draw them in with language.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was suggesting potential recourses for you since we can't change the character limits - but forgot to actually answer that part, which is no we can't. Which is frustrating, I agree. Most people get very good at knowing when the character limit is coming up and type something like [...] to denote more is incoming, or they use MOTDs, or they drop links to giant text-dump descriptions or images. And I believe there are some RPers using Skype now to actually RP.

But yes, I agree it is definitely a pain in the bottom.
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Esna Pitoojee

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I'm just going to step in here and say that I absolutely love what Constantin's been doing. He's taken the relatively sparse information we have about Amarr missionary-style efforts and really written something great out of them; it's rare we get to see an Amarr missionary character who actually puts in serious missionary-esque work.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Jace

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I'm just going to step in here and say that I absolutely love what Constantin's been doing. He's taken the relatively sparse information we have about Amarr missionary-style efforts and really written something great out of them; it's rare we get to see an Amarr missionary character who actually puts in serious missionary-esque work.

While I've heard it criticized as "not being Amarrian" by some, it really isn't my place. I haven't seriously RP'd an Amarr character in a very long time. It is nice to have another person taking their character so seriously, though. Something that can be lacking in the community at times.

Even if I disagree with his opinion on Eve and Eve lore, as I told someone in-game last night when talking about this thread: He's surprisingly cool-headed and a nice guy despite being wrong about everything.  :D :cube:
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Vic Van Meter

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Sorry I wasn't clear, I was suggesting potential recourses for you since we can't change the character limits - but forgot to actually answer that part, which is no we can't. Which is frustrating, I agree. Most people get very good at knowing when the character limit is coming up and type something like [...] to denote more is incoming, or they use MOTDs, or they drop links to giant text-dump descriptions or images. And I believe there are some RPers using Skype now to actually RP.

But yes, I agree it is definitely a pain in the bottom.

Thanks for the info.  Maybe word limits are like architectural budgets.  You know why they exist, but they really limit what you're trying to do as an artist.

I'm just going to step in here and say that I absolutely love what Constantin's been doing. He's taken the relatively sparse information we have about Amarr missionary-style efforts and really written something great out of them; it's rare we get to see an Amarr missionary character who actually puts in serious missionary-esque work.

You know, one of the things that surprised me is that the Amarr scene looked kind of flat before I got into it.  Information was sparse, so I wasn't sure how things actually worked.  So when I praise the RP community here and say it's really the only reason I'm still around, I mean it.  I might wish I had more lore, but I can't really ask for better people to RP with.

One of the great things I like about EVE's RP scene, due to game mechanics, is that because of the lack of physical interaction, EVE RP is very much a character-based initiative.  Odds are, if someone makes you angry, you can't just reach across the IGS and slap them; you can try to bother them in space, but it's a lot harder than it looks.  It paves the way for people to have a lot more philosophical arguments about the issues at our disposal.  That's led to a much larger variety of characters than you would think possible.  Extra procedural lore might help a lot in codifying practices, but I think the community has made up for that by doing their damndest to fill in the gaps.  It might lead to people butting heads over specifics, but the alternatives being not having anything to talk about or do at all would be a lot worse.

I almost wish CCP would just give us an open area, give us a 3d shell design tool, and let us design our own nightclubs, apartments, bars, and other station areas, then give us a character limit.  I'd love to get my architectiness on in the game, and then we could maybe make money running bars.
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Jace

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You know, one of the things that surprised me is that the Amarr scene looked kind of flat before I got into it.  Information was sparse, so I wasn't sure how things actually worked.  So when I praise the RP community here and say it's really the only reason I'm still around, I mean it.  I might wish I had more lore, but I can't really ask for better people to RP with.

As with most of the factions, there are a couple of well-respected Amarrian RP groups and the rest are small and disorganized. And I do have to echo Gavin (probably the best person for Amarrian fact-checking in the history of ever) that I think there are elements of lore you haven't seen or read. That's what it sounds like, anyway.


One of the great things I like about EVE's RP scene, due to game mechanics, is that because of the lack of physical interaction, EVE RP is very much a character-based initiative.  Odds are, if someone makes you angry, you can't just reach across the IGS and slap them; you can try to bother them in space, but it's a lot harder than it looks.  It paves the way for people to have a lot more philosophical arguments about the issues at our disposal.  That's led to a much larger variety of characters than you would think possible.  Extra procedural lore might help a lot in codifying practices, but I think the community has made up for that by doing their damndest to fill in the gaps.  It might lead to people butting heads over specifics, but the alternatives being not having anything to talk about or do at all would be a lot worse.

I almost wish CCP would just give us an open area, give us a 3d shell design tool, and let us design our own nightclubs, apartments, bars, and other station areas, then give us a character limit.  I'd love to get my architectiness on in the game, and then we could maybe make money running bars.

The bit about being character-based is essentially what a lot of us having been saying in this thread, and why many of us return to Eve. I always come back for that. I have a character and everything I do is based on this character, and despite wishing lore was updated more frequently, there is plenty to base my character off of and have them work with when you combine everything from Chronicles to item descriptions.

And while it isn't the same thing, why not use AutoCAD or SketchUp? The latter is free.
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Samira Kernher

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I really just intended to use it as an example, not derail us onto a WoW discussion, it's just that everyone knows a lot about it.  Being that, I should disclose that I've been pretty knee-deep in Warcraft since OaH and I edited on WoWwiki for a while.  There's a LOT of it out there, and not just blurbs in buried sentences, but fairly useful lore.  A lot of it, to be fair, EVE can't replicate because you can see it happening in-game.  For example, we know the Church of Light's ranking system because those characters are present and order each other around in the game.  We know how the church relates to the rest of the Alliance, what they worship, what their rituals are, we know where its purview ends, what they believe, where they draw their power from, what they draw their power from, und so weider.  It's not too many articles you'd need to read to go through the meat and potatoes.

The Amarr religion, despite being more intimately tied to Amarrian culture, we don't have nearly as much information on.  Unfortunately we, desperately need it, as per the last thing I was talking about.  Is Constantin doing something heretical?  That's a pretty hard question to answer because we don't know, presently, what constitutes heresy.  We know being a member of a terrorist/blood drinking organization can get you on the list, but that's probably going to get you in trouble anywhere.  Would the events that got Hamzi killed get him killed today?  That's the problem.  You get a decent story, and they write a lot of stories, but not much actual lore so you can understand modern life and what it's supposed to be about.  Most of it is conjecture.

Can't say I agree here. I think there is far more substance for the Amarr religion than there was for the Church of Light in WoW. We have the Scriptures (which I consider far more important than pretty much everything there is on the Church of Light, as the CoL has almost zero direct scripture to draw from), a few rituals, multiple examples of historically meaningful religious incidents, and multiple chronicles and stories showing the religion in use, and so on. It may not all be in one easy place, but it is there.

Religion is something that I found Blizzard had no idea what to do with, and was echoed just as much in the RPers. I at least find it far easier to RP a religious character in EVE than I did in WoW, since it feels like EVE has more to work with than WoW did.

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I'm not sure us having a hand in lore is that much of a good thing, then.  Imagine if CCP decided to roll with Constantin's interpretation of Scriptures because it fits better with their universe.  That would justly piss a lot of you off OOCly for good reason.

If it's canon it's canon. That's my stance for RPing. I have a huge dislike for people who pick and choose what they like and don't like in lore. I may not like something but if it's canon then I respect it and try to find a way to use it. I even acknowledge Tony G stuff... the horror!

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They went over when resurrection was possible and impossible a few times in WoW.  The most recent one I can think of was during the new Troll starter quests when Vol'jin asks his shaman healer to res a fallen novice, and she says his soul has been blasted out of his body and cannot be recovered.  It's not as reliable as EVE cloning.

EVE's normally isn't, either. It's reliable in the pod and nowhere else (and even then, it's ICly stated to not be a 100% of succeeding. Cloning accidents can occur. Plus the cloning facility itself can be sabotaged or destroyed, as seen in some missions and the Malkalen disaster). You do of course get all the soft-cloning people but that's primarily a player thing because people want an IC out for their planetside excursions, even though capsuleers are supposed to be vulnerable outside the pod. That's why CCP has gone back and forth on the soft cloning issue, I think, as it removes one of the key weaknesses capsuleers are supposed to have.

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One of the reasons you don't see WoW characters running from fights, even though there are better lore examples of the consequences of death in them, is partially because you know OOCly there aren't many lopsided fights.  Aside from world PVP (which, for the record, if you're severely outnumbered, you do run from if you're smart, I can't remember ever having defended Southshore on my 25s leveling back in the guard-grinding days), you are either evenly matched to your opponents in numbers or, in the case of PVE, they've taken your gear into account.  Blobbing is of limited effectiveness, it's just not something that translates well because you're generally matched to your opponents in whatever you're doing; you can't just go get more people if your team sucks at WSG.

I was talking about RP, not PvP. In PvP, you will get people running from lopsided fights (usually after zerging into them a few times)... but most PvP fights are not viewed as IC unless they've been pre-arranged (often between event leaders who OOCly balance out the numbers to get even fights, something I've always hated). But in emote fights, which is where the majority of IC fights are found (you can't duel in cities, afterall), people will refuse to acknowledge that they're outnumbered and fight anyway, shrugging off wounds and injury so they can be a badass. Which is, admittedly, fitting for the type of characters that WoW ones are supposed to be, but bravery is taken for granted in that universe. I at least find it easier to RP a coward in EVE than I did in WoW, because there's a lot more to actually be afraid of even on an OOC level. I've OOCly instinctively run from fights before, not just out of IC behavior but actually OOC because EVE's full-time RP world makes me OOCly share in the same feelings as my character. In other games it feels like you have to force fear into your characters because there's very little to actually be afraid of. In EVE I'm OOCly trembling half the time I'm in PvP.

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Again, how do we view cloning in the era of Jamyl Sarum?  They say things are changing, but how much?  Is the Doctrine of Sacred Flesh even a thing anymore?  Does a capsuleer death even count, thus be applicable to that idea that death is irrelevant?  It'd be nice to have the lore on that instead of the sort of vague idea that the Sacred Flesh is a thing, especially when they violated it so loudly in their own lore.

Jamyl Sarum is ICly claimed to be a miracle from God. The question of if she's a clone or not isn't even touched on because it's a subject Amarr doesn't want to talk about (even critics of her like Ardishapur only attack it subtly, setting up tours and schools designed to better educate people so that they can realize for themselves that Jamyl is breaking religious law). Her existence doesn't retcon Sacred Flesh, it's a direct IC contradiction of it that characters can and should be concerned about ICly. IC hypocrisy is a good thing.

So yes, it's still a thing. As for it applying to capsuleers, well even though Sacred Flesh doesn't apply to them (beyond the fact that many non-heirs abide by Sacred Flesh voluntarily) there is still the nature of the soul and what happens to it after death to account for. As the article linked says, the rise of capsuleers has encouraged the view of cloning causing the soul to migrate, but it's made clear that this is only a recent argument that challenges the more traditional viewpoint of the soul being lost upon cloning. Again, that's a good thing. That's the kind of thing that drives RP conflict, creating issues like that in which players can feasibly support one side or the other and have conflict about. As a traditional Ardishapurite, Samira is believes that capsuleers are soulless shells. And all this is ignoring the other, non-religious argument about whether a clone is even the same person or just a copy.

Cloning as an IC out might exist, but it's hardly something that immediately renders death (and thus bravery) pointless. There's both IC and OOC reasons why death still means something. As far as Samira is concerned, cloning doesn't nullify death at all, and she only has clones because it's mandated by CONCORD. Then throw in the rut about actually being a clone into the mix, and how that means she no longer has a soul, and there's a lot of neat RP stuff to play with.

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See, here's where I can see what you're getting at, but I kind of don't think EITHER is accomplishing what you're saying.  I think you're right that they're trying.  Unfortunately, WoW tries so damn hard to get you involved in heroic thrashing that you get stuck in mundacity.  Daily quests are horrible for that; necessary game mechanics, but the death knell of that idea ICly that WoW is an over-the-top Tolkein-ish world.  It essentially makes going out to combat a daily, boring task.  "Oh alright, I'll go kill another ten people.  Sheesh... work."  Which just isn't what they're going for.  I think Pandaria made that a bit better by first of all adding a lot of daily quests that DID seem like boring work, but also by making things feel more suitably epic.  Cataclysm raiding was so horribly underwhelming.

EVE has another problem, and I agree that they're trying to make spacetravel and space combat seem less about heroism and more about the daily intrigue and grind of nations.  The problem is, they don't make daily living that hard.  Players do (finally getting back to the original subject matter), but the game doesn't.  So... is the daily life of a capsuleer boring without other capsuleers?  By definition, it gets you involved in exciting fighting that's supposed to have an edge of danger.

To me, the games meet in the middle, which isn't a good thing because I don't think either is trying to be.  EVE's biggest problem is that I don't feel like it's a challenge to do anything in space except for other capsuleers (not technically all RPers doing things for IC reasons, of course).  Which, oddly, doesn't make me feel like a member of the herd, it makes me part of the only group of people that matter.  I can blitz 20-30 NPC ships in a single sitting on my own in matched ships and fly from station to station without a care in the world until I hit another capsuleer.  I don't think that's what they were going for, but we have all the baggage of the special-chicken concept with none of the benefits (as opposed to having the benefits and pitfalls of special-chicken syndrome).

I think that's not a terribly difficult idea to manage, my simple suggestion would be to make the universe more hostile and hard to survive in.  With the movement towards nullsec corps as a driver for the game, it seems they're going in the opposite direction and saying we few, genetically predisposed, superior-piloting capsuleers are now growing more powerful than the actual empires themselves that govern the large center of the cluster.

The universe is hostile. You just seem to equate 'universe' and 'other players' as two separate things, when in fact other players are part of the universe. The players are supposed to be the ones that make the EVE universe threatening. I find the EVE universe far, far more hostile than anything in WoW, and I played on an RP-PvP server. In EVE, I get OOC jitters while in PvP, even after a year in FW, because there are real OOC and IC consequences for doing poorly.

That being said, I agree that PvE should be made more difficult (or at least fun to fight). IMO, beyond the rookie levels, mission NPCs should be almost as difficult as players, and fly with similar tactics and damages. A player battleship vs NPC battleship fight should have the same damage projection as a PC vs PC battleship fight. IMO missions should lower numbers of opponents and heighten the ability of individual opponents. Make it an actual challenge to fly rather than a curbstomp where winning is dependent purely on building an appropriately tanked "mission fit" that lets you practically AFK the fight.

I also think that there should be more penalties for people of low sec/standing status. Among other things, IMO, criminals should be barred from all high-security stations and militia should be barred from all enemy stations (they are in low sec, but not in high sec, which doesn't make a wad of sense). High security and enemy space should be a downright hostile place for you if you're on the wrong side of the law/war.

I'm just going to step in here and say that I absolutely love what Constantin's been doing. He's taken the relatively sparse information we have about Amarr missionary-style efforts and really written something great out of them; it's rare we get to see an Amarr missionary character who actually puts in serious missionary-esque work.

This is why I've defended Constantin before and want him to succeed. It is something nice to see. I just worry about him doing too much Christian preaching rather than Amarrian. Though I prefer discussing these kind of differences IC rather than OOC, and would like an opportunity for Samira and Constantin to have a chat sometime. They're both Ardishapurites, but one is strongly traditional and the other very liberal.
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Samira Kernher

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Regarding text limits, two things:

First off, most MMOs have a text limit, this isn't something unique to EVE. It's easy to forget that it exists in WoW when you have access to mods that can get rid of it, but by default I think WoW limits text even more than EVE does. EVE however has MotD's for player created chat channels, which is a godsend that few other MMOs have.

Secondly, I think you'll find that a lot of RPers actually don't like so much text and flowery prose. In-game RP is more like improv acting than storywriting, and players typically care less about prose than they do about action. I know there's a lot of people who dislike how every post Constantin makes on the IGS is a mile long, for example, and I've seen similar dislike from RPers towards characters in other games that take 2-4 emotes to describe everything they say.

I think it is a good lesson to learn how to make do with less. Both RL and in RP. I remember getting lectured by my English teacher back in 12th grade that I needed to learn how to condense my essays, because length doesn't actually mean quality. I had further lessons on that in university for my creative writing classes--readers often don't want to read an excessively long description, and often gloss over it to get to the action (action in this case meaning the character's doing things, not action action, obviously).

Description is a good thing, but you don't want to drown your readers in it.
« Last Edit: 06 Feb 2014, 11:44 by Samira Kernher »
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Jace

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If it's canon it's canon. That's my stance for RPing. I have a huge dislike for people who pick and choose what they like and don't like in lore. I may not like something but if it's canon then I respect it and try to find a way to use it. I even acknowledge Tony G stuff... the horror!


A couple thousand times this. I find myself constantly getting in conflict with the players that try to ignore TonyG. Canon is frackin' canon. Unless you can demonstrate a direct, explicit, and literal contradiction in other PF that has not been handled - it is canon.
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Vic Van Meter

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Regarding text limits, two things:

First off, most MMOs have a text limit, this isn't something unique to EVE. It's easy to forget that it exists in WoW when you have access to mods that can get rid of it, but by default I think WoW limits text even more than EVE does. EVE however has MotD's for player created chat channels, which is a godsend that few other MMOs have.

Secondly, I think you'll find that a lot of RPers actually don't like so much text and flowery prose. In-game RP is more like improv acting than storywriting, and players typically care less about prose than they do about action. I know there's a lot of people who dislike how every post Constantin makes on the IGS is a mile long, for example, and I've seen similar dislike from RPers towards characters in other games that take 2-4 emotes to describe everything they say.

I think it is a good lesson to learn how to make do with less. Both RL and in RP. I remember getting lectured by my English teacher back in 12th grade that I needed to learn how to condense my essays, because length doesn't actually mean quality. I had further lessons on that in university for my creative writing classes--readers often don't want to read an excessively long description, and often gloss over it to get to the action (action in this case meaning the character's doing things, not action action, obviously).

Description is a good thing, but you don't want to drown your readers in it.

Having RPed a lot outside EVE, and still being someone who does RP in a lot of places outside EVE, I can't say I've seen that trend anywhere but EVE.  Most places I've been actively ignore one-liners and the prevailing thought is that if you didn't describe it, the description is up for grabs.  So sometimes it makes a difference where you're sitting in relation to other people, whether you have your legs crossed, or whether you've already described where both your hands are when someone pulls a gun on you.  Descriptive writing is really key in those forums, as well as making it flow so it doesn't sound like you're just covering your bases.  One of those dying arts that's really the province of mass IM forum RP.  The introduction of stricter text limits in most of them, and the decline of IMers in general, kind of slew the format.  But you used to see people learn to put so much of their character into stuff they were simply doing.

Ahhh, reminiscing.

Back on subject, I'm not sure what the comparative lengths are, but I play in both, so I can hop on and check the limits in both.  I feel like I have more room in WoW per para, but I don't have to guess if I can just start typing the Preamble to the Constitution and see how far I get.  I'll return with my findings later.

As with most of the factions, there are a couple of well-respected Amarrian RP groups and the rest are small and disorganized. And I do have to echo Gavin (probably the best person for Amarrian fact-checking in the history of ever) that I think there are elements of lore you haven't seen or read. That's what it sounds like, anyway.

No, lore I would consider deep would be something like Shadows of Asia.  Now that is a ton of useful lore, as it should be, it's packed into a book.  I might be spoiled slightly by having a collection of source material like that around for book games and reading it on the toilet instead of magazines (yeah...).  But I wouldn't consider what we have in EVE to be top notch compared to what I usually have to deal with.  I actually got a listing of stuff I read when I started here, some kind of Amarr character lore care package, and read through it.  There wasn't much I felt like I could use to make Constantin more interesting as a person.

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The bit about being character-based is essentially what a lot of us having been saying in this thread, and why many of us return to Eve. I always come back for that. I have a character and everything I do is based on this character, and despite wishing lore was updated more frequently, there is plenty to base my character off of and have them work with when you combine everything from Chronicles to item descriptions.

And while it isn't the same thing, why not use AutoCAD or SketchUp? The latter is free.

I think the difference is you might see that as a function of game and lore, I don't.  That's a function of the player base having to overcome a game limitation and succeeding, because the community is decent.  I've always felt like the community is everything that makes this game's lore interesting, otherwise it wouldn't really pique my interest.  For instance, the things I find most interesting about, say, Lunarisse Aspenstar isn't the stuff related to her Amarrian-ness, it's who she is as a character.  At the very least, even if I find the lore flat, the players are very good.

I didn't mean modeling as a representative model, though, otherwise I do own a full copy of Revit.  I mean something we can use to model spaces in-game so that we can use them as station walking hubs.  I've built in Radiant before, CCP could always just give us the tools to make their game more interesting for them rather than having to do it themselves.
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Louella Dougans

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If it's canon it's canon. That's my stance for RPing. I have a huge dislike for people who pick and choose what they like and don't like in lore. I may not like something but if it's canon then I respect it and try to find a way to use it. I even acknowledge Tony G stuff... the horror!


A couple thousand times this. I find myself constantly getting in conflict with the players that try to ignore TonyG. Canon is frackin' canon. Unless you can demonstrate a direct, explicit, and literal contradiction in other PF that has not been handled - it is canon.

Empress Jamyl Sarum's age is given as being X in the books, and Y on the evelopedia. She is an only child in the books, and has a nephew in the evelopedia AND ingame news.

The Scorpion is stated as being new Ingame, while in short stories, it is described as decades old.

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Samira Kernher

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Having RPed a lot outside EVE, and still being someone who does RP in a lot of places outside EVE, I can't say I've seen that trend anywhere but EVE.  Most places I've been actively ignore one-liners and the prevailing thought is that if you didn't describe it, the description is up for grabs.

I just recall in WoW that basically anyone with an RSP bio over 3 or 4 paragraphs was considered overdoing it, and players that had a habit of using 2-3+ paragraphs for every emote they made often had people ignoring a lot of their writing (the occasional long thing is fine, it's mainly issues with the people who do it with everything they write).

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So sometimes it makes a difference where you're sitting in relation to other people, whether you have your legs crossed, or whether you've already described where both your hands are when someone pulls a gun on you.  Descriptive writing is really key in those forums, as well as making it flow so it doesn't sound like you're just covering your bases.  One of those dying arts that's really the province of mass IM forum RP.  The introduction of stricter text limits in most of them, and the decline of IMers in general, kind of slew the format.  But you used to see people learn to put so much of their character into stuff they were simply doing.

Ahhh, reminiscing.

As someone who originated in forum RP, I get what you're saying. Back in those days, RP really was about writing a story. The shift from forum/IM to MMO has shifted RP in the direction of short, quick, and direct over long and descriptive, in my experience.

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No, lore I would consider deep would be something like Shadows of Asia.  Now that is a ton of useful lore, as it should be, it's packed into a book.  I might be spoiled slightly by having a collection of source material like that around for book games and reading it on the toilet instead of magazines (yeah...).

EVElopedia has a lot though, and that's before getting into the chronicles (I still haven't read all of those). I usually take notes anytime I read a chronicle or news piece with Amarr stuff.

Still, more is always good and I'm really looking forward to EVE: Source.
« Last Edit: 06 Feb 2014, 12:57 by Samira Kernher »
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Vic Van Meter

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Having RPed a lot outside EVE, and still being someone who does RP in a lot of places outside EVE, I can't say I've seen that trend anywhere but EVE.  Most places I've been actively ignore one-liners and the prevailing thought is that if you didn't describe it, the description is up for grabs.

I just recall in WoW that basically anyone with an RSP bio over 3 or 4 paragraphs was considered overdoing it, and players that had a habit of using 2-3+ paragraphs for every emote they made often had people ignoring a lot of their writing (the occasional long thing is fine, it's mainly issues with the people who do it with everything they write).

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So sometimes it makes a difference where you're sitting in relation to other people, whether you have your legs crossed, or whether you've already described where both your hands are when someone pulls a gun on you.  Descriptive writing is really key in those forums, as well as making it flow so it doesn't sound like you're just covering your bases.  One of those dying arts that's really the province of mass IM forum RP.  The introduction of stricter text limits in most of them, and the decline of IMers in general, kind of slew the format.  But you used to see people learn to put so much of their character into stuff they were simply doing.

Ahhh, reminiscing.

As someone who originated in forum RP, I get what you're saying. Back in those days, RP really was about writing a story. The shift from forum/IM to MMO has shifted RP in the direction of short, quick, and direct over long and descriptive, in my experience.

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No, lore I would consider deep would be something like Shadows of Asia.  Now that is a ton of useful lore, as it should be, it's packed into a book.  I might be spoiled slightly by having a collection of source material like that around for book games and reading it on the toilet instead of magazines (yeah...).

EVElopedia has a lot though, and that's before getting into the chronicles (I still haven't read all of those). I usually take notes anytime I read a chronicle or news piece with Amarr stuff.

Still, more is always good and I'm really looking forward to EVE: Source.

To be fair to you, I think I know what you're talking about in WoW, and you just reminded me.  Not that it's been universal, but I remember that being an issue on the Steamwheedle Cartel server, the place the Skulldance Clan was originally made.  I didn't have the issue on any of my other servers (Alliance Emerald Dream, Alliance Thorium Brotherhood, Alliance Moon Guard, Horde Wyrmrest Accord) though I think the first one was because our posts were very often forced to be shorter in an RPPVP server like ED.  The rest, there's some kind of limit if you're in a bar just because you flood out the /say and /e channel, though most people are usually on board for longer posts.  Luckily, you can do a bit in-game that takes care of some of the details, so you don't have to note relative positions and the like, they can see where you are.

In any case, even in private, because people can see what you look like for the most part, where you are, and often what you're doing, I haven't had to max out WoW's limit more than twice at a time, and those are few and far between.  On SWC, I know they used to start groaning as soon as you passed a few sentences up if you were in a public place like Brill or SMC.

Hell, Brill as an actual RP location.... that's a long time ago.
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Samira Kernher

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Hm, do you play on both US and EU servers? Or does US also have a Steamwheedle Cartel and Emerald Dream?
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Lunarisse Aspenstar

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Hm, do you play on both US and EU servers? Or does US also have a Steamwheedle Cartel and Emerald Dream?

Wow does not restrict us players from going on EU or other servers. It is an option we can choose (I don't think serve names are duplicated).  That being said, if you care about time zones people go to the one that's in their region.
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Samira Kernher

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Hm, do you play on both US and EU servers? Or does US also have a Steamwheedle Cartel and Emerald Dream?

Wow does not restrict us players from going on EU or other servers. It is an option we can choose (I don't think serve names are duplicated).  That being said, if you care about time zones people go to the one that's in their region.

Err, no. This speaking as a US player that played on EU servers for 6 years. You need an EU account to access EU servers, which requires buying an EU copy of the game. A US account can only access US servers. The server names are not duplicated, which is why I was asking if Cons played on both, since SWC and ED are EU servers while MG and WC are US ones.

Though this is veering off topic.
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