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[Arista Shahni]

One of the biggest things that needs to go is the word religion. Amarr doesn't have religion, it just has being Amarr, which incorporates what we call religion.

(emphasis mine)

I don't study this stuff well enough to sit and make cohesive arguments.  I can't irradiate them in a petri dish I'm pretty much done with arguments.

But bolded section is pretty much what I was trying to say when I had to eventually turn the blink off on the OOC channel the other day.

[Morwen Lagann]

There's a reason I summed up that hour-long argument with ":amarrians:", Ari.

[Arista Shahni]

Well as it is still going on it lends credence to the often used statement "The Empire moves slowly".

As for Veik's post and point, Veik can write what they choose, "poking at the fourth wall", because :Eve:.  A moderator from CCP can be referred to the post, and they will read it as in character, and state it violates nothing.

In truth, everything every capsuleer in EVE does is in character; this is why MECHANICS = CANON gets inscribed everywhere.  When it comes to the generation of histories and little worlds - whether they matter or not, whether they're validated or not, well, welcome to a world of not 100 people, but 100,000 people who play EVE and have to decide if it is worth paying attention to. 

What's more dangerous, that character A is a this or that and can bend the ear of people who may or may not be officially aligned with Theology Council and/or Megacorps or the Tribal Councils or that - whatever it is the Gallente have - the friggin hippies , this excluding you from IC interactions (no tea parties for you :/) but everyone still has 'no issues' with you OOC...

... or that character B can command a fleet/alliance that can wardec you / force you into an eternal state of 'docked' - also has no issues with you, mind you, nothing against you in real life - but your boat shall indeed be Violenced?

As much as I like to RP, I would have a hard time choosing who it was more important to be nice to, and likely would choose the latter when I think about losing spaceships that, in essence, cost about fourty USD apiece.

Point being - the 'biggest threat' one person chooses based on how they play the game.  I do like to undock, so, a powerful alliance/corporation being hostile is as powerful if not moreso than, say, Pieter deciding he wants to snap Ari's neck in an RPfite.

[Veikitamo]

Having drunk from the cup of tiger's blood the last week (cocaine is a hell of a drug) I'll drop some of the affectations.

etc.

If you don’t want to play the approval game, then why do you put your views on roleplay into an in-character perspective? Denying the claims of others, how well the may be grounded and executed, leads to the paradox of only adding flavour to their claims. And making such a posting on IGS is no less part of the approval game. As I said what you are doing is little different from what you are criticising, but you don’t seem to see the paradox.

There is only a paradox if you believe either myself or my character are interested in changing what exists, no?

Or it can be seen as a self-conscious recognition of humouring others.

Or maybe the fact that it's all just so recursive is part of the fun?

At the end of the day though, the majority of RP to me both as a player and a character is relatively unimportant because I'm interacting in game world where what you do is more important than what you say you do. RP/IC is just a form of interaction to me, but it's only one of many available and will always remain a minor one in the whole game I'm playing.

Once it became apparent that the whole thing appears to be more about validation and popularity, then my own personal interest in it becomes increasingly diminished, especially as I've realized that there's just as many people to meet who enjoy the lore, the background and immersion outside this small minority of Eve than there are in it.

Sure I've met a lot of interesting people within this, "community" -- yet for some reason those same people no longer seem interested in engaging with or interacting with it aside from the most minimal level now.

Maybe there's a reason for that.

[Lyn Farel]

Well as it is still going on it lends credence to the often used statement "The Empire moves slowly".

As for Veik's post and point, Veik can write what they choose, "poking at the fourth wall", because :Eve:.  A moderator from CCP can be referred to the post, and they will read it as in character, and state it violates nothing.

In truth, everything every capsuleer in EVE does is in character; this is why MECHANICS = CANON gets inscribed everywhere.  When it comes to the generation of histories and little worlds - whether they matter or not, whether they're validated or not, well, welcome to a world of not 100 people, but 100,000 people who play EVE and have to decide if it is worth paying attention to. 

What's more dangerous, that character A is a this or that and can bend the ear of people who may or may not be officially aligned with Theology Council and/or Megacorps or the Tribal Councils or that - whatever it is the Gallente have - the friggin hippies , this excluding you from IC interactions (no tea parties for you :/) but everyone still has 'no issues' with you OOC...

... or that character B can command a fleet/alliance that can wardec you / force you into an eternal state of 'docked' - also has no issues with you, mind you, nothing against you in real life - but your boat shall indeed be Violenced?

As much as I like to RP, I would have a hard time choosing who it was more important to be nice to, and likely would choose the latter when I think about losing spaceships that, in essence, cost about fourty USD apiece.

Point being - the 'biggest threat' one person chooses based on how they play the game.  I do like to undock, so, a powerful alliance/corporation being hostile is as powerful if not moreso than, say, Pieter deciding he wants to snap Ari's neck in an RPfite.

Mechanics = Canon is a can of worms too.

In both cases it's just a matter of being reasonable, but apparently people simply fail at it.

Having drunk from the cup of tiger's blood the last week (cocaine is a hell of a drug) I'll drop some of the affectations.

etc.

If you don’t want to play the approval game, then why do you put your views on roleplay into an in-character perspective? Denying the claims of others, how well the may be grounded and executed, leads to the paradox of only adding flavour to their claims. And making such a posting on IGS is no less part of the approval game. As I said what you are doing is little different from what you are criticising, but you don’t seem to see the paradox.

There is only a paradox if you believe either myself or my character are interested in changing what exists, no?

Or it can be seen as a self-conscious recognition of humouring others.

Or maybe the fact that it's all just so recursive is part of the fun?

At the end of the day though, the majority of RP to me both as a player and a character is relatively unimportant because I'm interacting in game world where what you do is more important than what you say you do. RP/IC is just a form of interaction to me, but it's only one of many available and will always remain a minor one in the whole game I'm playing.

Once it became apparent that the whole thing appears to be more about validation and popularity, then my own personal interest in it becomes increasingly diminished, especially as I've realized that there's just as many people to meet who enjoy the lore, the background and immersion outside this small minority of Eve than there are in it.

Sure I've met a lot of interesting people within this, "community" -- yet for some reason those same people no longer seem interested in engaging with or interacting with it aside from the most minimal level now.

Maybe there's a reason for that.

You seem to assume that we are interested in and play for recognition, validation and popularity. It find it rather sad and offending since you don't actually know for what I play. I do not play for that, I play for the interest we can find in evolved RP setups, interesting situations, well made dramas, everything that can emulate a rich atmosphere fitting to the universe. RP is a matter of immersion, and one has to create his own tools for that. If you can immerse yourself in your game mechanics, that's good for you. I personally find them anti immersive like nothing.

But telling me it's for a petty recognition ? Please. Considering my own history on that game over 7 years, it's just ludicrous.

[Veikitamo]

But telling me it's for a petty recognition ? Please. Considering my own history on that game over 7 years, it's just ludicrous.

That's just my own opinion given observation. Would I say it applies to all? No, not at all.

Because as I already have said, I wouldn't have met interesting people around here if that were the case.

But would I say a lot of signal gets lost in white noise? Sure.

I just need to open OOC to feel like I'm at SETI trying to look for a coherent and intelligent signal among a cosmic background of pedantry.

[Arista Shahni]

Right - this is a case of people being unreasonable.

If something doesnt apply to someone they should not be offended either.

If someone called me a fatass, I'd not care, because it isn't true.

So why are people getting offended of these things were neither directed at them, and do not apply to them?

[Esna Pitoojee]

Veik - looking at your thoughts about validation and such, I kind of have to ask... isn't that basically what you were doing with the whole PYRE-is-sending-slaves-to-the-Kingdom thing? I mean, there wasn't any conclusive way to prove by mechanics what PYRE was doing, whether they were POWs or slaves, how they were being treated, etc...

Seems to me you were pretty much asking people to accept that things were as you presented them?

[Silas Vitalia]

I think PYRE sending slaves to the Kingdom agrees with all the PF though, based on the Kingdoms need for outside slave sources and their relationship with many Caldari corporations?

[Esna Pitoojee]

Agreeing with PF or not isn't really what's being discussed here; the question is about the creation of claims and their automatic acceptance by the remainder of the RP community.

i.e., nobody said "You're sending slaves? PROVE IT, SHOW ME THE FACILITIES, FINANCIAL RECORDS, TRANSPORT CARGO SCANS," etc.

[Morwen Lagann]

Veik - looking at your thoughts about validation and such, I kind of have to ask... isn't that basically what you were doing with the whole PYRE-is-sending-slaves-to-the-Kingdom thing? I mean, there wasn't any conclusive way to prove by mechanics what PYRE was doing, whether they were POWs or slaves, how they were being treated, etc...

Seems to me you were pretty much asking people to accept that things were as you presented them?

There were ways, through other, outside parties that were involved. To my knowledge, two different capsuleers/corps offered land to host the facilities - unfortunately I don't think things progressed to the point with either where anything would have come from it in that sense.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Veik - looking at your thoughts about validation and such, I kind of have to ask... isn't that basically what you were doing with the whole PYRE-is-sending-slaves-to-the-Kingdom thing? I mean, there wasn't any conclusive way to prove by mechanics what PYRE was doing, whether they were POWs or slaves, how they were being treated, etc...

Seems to me you were pretty much asking people to accept that things were as you presented them?

There were ways, through other, outside parties that were involved. To my knowledge, two different capsuleers/corps offered land to host the facilities - unfortunately I don't think things progressed to the point with either where anything would have come from it in that sense.

Right. I'm talking about purely what -did- happen, not what might have happened.

[Lyn Farel]

So why are people getting offended of these things were neither directed at them, and do not apply to them?

Why is the backstage RP community targeted then ? That's silly.

Because everything that is pointed at in Veik thread is basically everything what I do, and what a lot of people do here. Starting with things like Mantenault.

How is that not directed at us ?

[Morwen Lagann]

I think I may have found Veiki summed up in a post on imgur. Behold!

[Arista Shahni]

So why are people getting offended of these things were neither directed at them, and do not apply to them?

Why is the backstage RP community targeted then ? That's silly.

Because everything that is pointed at in Veik thread is basically everything what I do, and what a lot of people do here. Starting with things like Mantenault.

How is that not directed at us ?

I'd refer to how this thread started, not how it has progressed now that everyone has stated their feelings on the matter, giving the person in question time to read through all of it.

And note: If you are not doing this as a popularity contest, then why is that the point that made you state "I am offended"?