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[Lasairiona]

Once you have the lay of the land you should endeavor to craft your RP so that it merges with the current consensus

No.

No.

A thousand times no. We don't need more consensus or more of the same. Even if they eventually push it after they're 'acceptable,' why should they HAVE to conform? Especially in an RP community of a spaceship RPG of all places? Fuck the norm. Be creative and damn the torpedoes I say.

Lasa murdered a Torpedo....oh wait....sorry, derailing my own thread.

[Morwen Lagann]

I don't think that's what Svet was saying, Anslo.

Seemed more like a "if you're going to push the boundaries, push gently at first to get your bearings rather than pulling an Elise Randolph and flying past the Line of Glory on your first day" to me. Not a "be a carbon-copy of someone else before you start improvising".

[Saede Riordan]

CG is an IC/OOC friend of Lasa's. Granted, I may have only heard one side of the story, but he felt pushed out for straying from the "norm." I don't think that's right.

It was never 'straying from the norm' that bothered me about the character. The character irritated me a lot, but whatever really. Saede treated the character...like Saede would. She grudgingly gave her help a few times, but otherwise just kept her distance and occasionally berated her for doing dumb things. I had kind of hoped the player would eventually kind of 'settle down' and, while not even necessarily changing their RP, just being more tolerable to be around, but pretty much every just kept telling me "they're just a troll".

[Shiori]

Slight follow up question: Is it hard for new RPers to break into the scene, as it were?

It's hard to say. I'd say that "we" aren't any more or less dysfunctional than the next random internet community. Unfortunately that's a very low standard.

We're a pretty fragmented bunch. As far as I can see, there's no pervasive, active culture to recruit, mentor and educate newer people on the "proper" way to roleplay, or to get them involved in anything. There's no special attempt to exclude them either, but the basic human behaviours in a group - limited attention, frustration, guardedness due to prior bad experiences - can be enough of a wall to put many people off, I imagine.

[Anslol]

I don't think that's what Svet was saying, Anslo.

Seemed more like a "if you're going to push the boundaries, push gently at first to get your bearings rather than pulling an Elise Randolph and flying past the Line of Glory on your first day" to me. Not a "be a carbon-copy of someone else before you start improvising".

Alright, that can make a bit of sense. I just hate the idea that new peeps might get stagnated because of preconceptions of acceptable RP in a vidya gaem. I'm sorry if I'm being defensive, but this particular topic hits right on top of home. Creativity shouldn't be repressed because of one's fear of retribution against their new idea. It should be nurtured and guided so that it isn't beyond the bounds of the PF AND adds something awesome.

For instance, anyone with an interesting/unique background is branded as a 'special snowflake' for it. That, to me, is trying to put the character in a negative light. Why is it negative? What's wrong with something new? Not everything has to be spaecship grimdark PvP hurrhurr. Not saying anyone here in particular does that, this is just observations I've made in general over the past 6 years of playing.

...but pretty much every just kept telling me "they're just a troll".

See, shit like this is wtf man. Not YOU Saede, I mean the people who told you that and the person who pushed CG out because of their own short comings.

No, they aren't a troll gods dammit. Let them be for fuck's sake.

[kalaratiri]

Slight follow up question: Is it hard for new RPers to break into the scene, as it were?

For me, in.. What, like, April of 2011 I think, it was more of a natural merging. I joined Gradient, an immersionist corporation in September '10 and had no contact at all with the RP community at large for the first 6 months. As this was the first time I'd ever done RP ever, it was something of a learning experience and something I think I definitely benefited from. Learning the norms and expected actions of RP from people who'd been at it for years meant that I didn't make a total fool of myself when I started talking in the Summit.

Although, I've participated in my fair share of :derp: RP to be honest, and it left me with a distinctly bitter taste in my mouth and a dislike of the whole 'scene'. Plus, that side of RP caused the only truly aggressive argument I've ever had with anyone in almost 6 years of playing Eve. As far as I'm concerned, that whole side of RP is poison to character development.

[Anslol]

What 'scene' Kala?

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Once you have the lay of the land you should endeavor to craft your RP so that it merges with the current consensus

No.

No.

A thousand times no. We don't need more consensus or more of the same. Even if they eventually push it after they're 'acceptable,' why should they HAVE to conform? Especially in an RP community of a spaceship RPG of all places? Fuck the norm. Be creative and damn the torpedoes I say.

If you cannot be bothered to respect the environment that has been created before you, why should anyone else bother to respect your efforts to expand it? Collaboration is a two way street. If you want to do your own thing with no restrictions, write a book. Play a single player game. Whatever. But in a collaborative roleplaying environment you, by definition, cannot do your own thing.

And the reason people hate those "special snowflakes" is because they act like just saying they are so-and-so's son or whatever is a reason to respect their character, when they (the player) have never done anything for the community or the world. Nuh uh. Eve is a game where it's what you do that matters, not what you say. Start from zero and build up, that's how it works for everyone. If you can't do shit in game (including good character development, I don't mean necessarily pewpew in space), then don't expect anyone to give you any credit. Put up or shut up.

[Vincent Pryce]

What 'scene' Kala?

Read between the lines, grasshopper. The answer is right in front of you.

[kalaratiri]

What 'scene' Kala?

I'm not entirely sure how to name it. There is a definite subset of Rpers around who are primarily involved in ERP, "shocking" actions and attention seeking etc. I'm also skirting dangerously around YDIW already, so I'll stop there I think.

[Anslol]

If you cannot be bothered to respect the environment that has been created before you, why should anyone else bother to respect your efforts to expand it?

Why do we have to obey some frivolous tit-for-tat ideology instead of fostering growth of the environment and those within it both old and new? 

Collaboration is a two way street. If you want to do your own thing with no restrictions, write a book. Play a single player game. Whatever. But in a collaborative roleplaying environment you, by definition, cannot do your own thing.

Yes? You can? Like I said, let them be creative, let them do what they want and get their feet wet. If they don't take criticism then they suffer the consequences. But for those willing to listen and learn and adapt the unique story or RP to the situation, they add some great stuff to the community. I'm not saying to just let people go out and god mod and do PF breaking stuff. I'm saying that newbies shouldn't be afraid to try something new and instead, seek acceptance by choosing an 'acceptable template' so they they can have people to interact with. That's not fun, that's boring and predictable.

And the reason people hate those "special snowflakes" is because they act like just saying they are so-and-so's son or whatever is a reason to respect their character, when they (the player) have never done anything for the community or the world.

No, it isn't limited to that. It's literally ANYONE who isn't just a pod pilot. Implants? SPECHUL SNOWFLAEK! Surgery? SPECHUL SNOWFLAEK! Eccentric Philanthropist? SPECHUL SNOWFLAEK!!

Fuck that noise.

Eve is a game where it's what you do that matters, not what you say. Start from zero and build up, that's how it works for everyone. If you can't do shit in game (including good character development, I don't mean necessarily pewpew in space), then don't expect anyone to give you any credit. Put up or shut up.

Yes, actions have consequences. Like I said, I'm not saying people shouldn't call 'wat' level...I dunno, reality bending demi-gods for instance...out for what they are. But those people who are willing to accept criticism should be helped. Who knows what they'll do.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

I think you are over reacting Anslol.

[Anslol]

I think you are over reacting Anslol.

To an extent maybe, but I've seen the cold shoulder/shunning/gossiping ooc bullshit, and it just burns me. (OOC as in out of character, not the channel).

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Is the RP scene in Eve insular? To a degree, yes. This is common in pretty much any game where there are a lot of trolls and not a lot of support for the RP community by the game operators against said trolling. On Lord of the Rings Online, for instance, there are two servers with significant RP populations. One is the old U.S. "RP Encouraged" server (a pretty meaningless label in this context, as Turbine didn't do anything to stop people from trolling the RP community), the other was the old European RP server (where RP guidelines and considerations were officially established). On the RP Encouraged server, the RP community tended to be quite insular and difficult to break into - deep RP tended to happen within kinships (the LOTRO version of corps). On the pure RP server, the RP community was far more open, and there was far more happening on a public level. I think a big part of this was that the server GMs themselves could be counted on to deal with things like Dwarves named "Spanky McBottom" jumping up and down like jackhammers in the middle of your tender RP moments.

Eve is a fairly troll-heavy game, and we in the RP community tend to be easy targets for the sort of folks who get a kick out of ruining other people's fun. The insular-ness of the RP community here is just a natural progression of that. That said, I don't think we're a particularly hard RP community to break into. Where, I think, CG went wrong was when they started seeing the rest of the RP community as one big adversary. Breaking into any RP community is sort of a process of courtship. It may be long and drawn out. It may simply be a matter of eyes meeting across a crowded room. But it is a sort of courtship.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

That is an excellent way to put it Shin...unfortunately, some people are horrible at courtship.