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Author Topic: Pirate factions in FW  (Read 6795 times)

Joshua Foiritain

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Pirate factions in FW
« on: 21 May 2013, 07:30 »

I was hoping CCP would get around to this eventually but it seems we are out of luck so perhaps the CSM can help us out. I dropped a topic on the eve-o assembly hall forum, any support would be appreciated.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238112
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Tiberious Thessalonia

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #1 on: 21 May 2013, 10:55 »

But.. why?  I dont want to orbit buttons :(
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Ghost Hunter

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #2 on: 21 May 2013, 11:41 »

The idea is lacking in game design insight and conceptual soundness. There's no strong drive for new mechanics, content, or otherwise that I can see in your proposal. If stapling the Pirate Factions to the existing militia is your proposal, why not just join an existing militia and not tie down developer resources?
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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #3 on: 21 May 2013, 14:55 »

The idea is lacking in game design insight and conceptual soundness. There's no strong drive for new mechanics, content, or otherwise that I can see in your proposal. If stapling the Pirate Factions to the existing militia is your proposal, why not just join an existing militia and not tie down developer resources?

All well and good.

So, how would you prefer such a thing be done?
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Ghost Hunter

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #4 on: 21 May 2013, 17:20 »

The idea is lacking in game design insight and conceptual soundness. There's no strong drive for new mechanics, content, or otherwise that I can see in your proposal. If stapling the Pirate Factions to the existing militia is your proposal, why not just join an existing militia and not tie down developer resources?

All well and good.

So, how would you prefer such a thing be done?

Not at all, ideally, as the concept of any thing Militia related for the Pirate Factions scares the shit out of me.

There's one conceptually sound method you can go - have the Pirates fighting to take back their territory from the Nullsec alliances. That cannot be developed because it interferes with the golden child of EVE : the nullsec sandbox. It would cause too many problems with the established meta of the environment, as well as the developer's own perception of how it is meant to be 'left alone'.

The less sound method would be to develop a unique set of conditions for each of the Pirate Factions to influence lowsec instead. The Blooders are driven by Sani Sabik purpose and blooding motives; they can be rather pangalactic in their over all goals. The Sansha merely want revenge against the Empires, and although free-range Capsuleers are anathema to them, having them direct their carnage that way is useful.

Serpentis and Angels are ill-defined in ways that are conductive to galactic wide campaigns. They are the underworld of Empire civilization; they thrive in the illegal and criminal. The Serpentis particularly so; the Angels may have motives beyond that we do not know about yet. In that respect, though, they can be mainly based around stopping police activity. The Guristas are anarchists in general, so the Empires are a favored target, but their leader has a particular hatred of Capsuleers.

These are some distilled examples one could use to develop a set of victory conditions for each faction, and then build a system around it. Its not wholly accurate but it is 'workable'. Yet even in the workable state, it requires tremendous development resources to bring into a functional state for the game.  Those resources could be directed to somewhere much more critical; such as a revamp of the corporate interface and starbase programming.


Even more detailed ideas I've considered for the 'Pirate Faction Warfare' thought strain I find distasteful and difficult to swallow. The one core idea that would drive them, retaking their territory in nullsec, cannot be realized. All others are just hamfisted inserts, and I think are much better not being considered in favor of more productive avenues.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #5 on: 21 May 2013, 18:27 »

Pirate FW would in no way be more ham-fisted than the many years of static proxy war vis a vis the Empires.

They should do this, but make unique conditions and combat situations different from FW. 

I got yelled at in the other thread but I'd want Pirate FW to be for larger ships and over many low sec regions.  So combat 'scale' and ship types in use goes something (very very generalized here) like:

High Sec
Current FW areas
Much of Lowsec
Pirate FW areas
Null Sec


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Ember Vykos

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #6 on: 21 May 2013, 21:35 »

What I would like to see is Pirate FW being something you can join, but with no buttons or at the very least very minimal button anything. Instead how about using them as a source of breaking up normal FW.

Instead of capping systems pirates that are in pirate FW (I would say it's just as easy to sign up as it is with empire factions since not everyone wants to make the trek to NPC null to sign up) get LP by disrupting the active capping of systems by the empire groups. Also from kills of the empire groups.

Just a thought, but since most pirates are in it for the pews it seems like it could work, and I don't think it would be that hard to implement. I don't for a second think that many pirates or even the RPing pirates would be all that into capping systems, but who doesn't love splosions?

Also I should note that I just now came up with this idea and haven't really thought on it for more than maybe a minute and a half by now so it's by no means fleshed out just a starting point.
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Kyoko Sakoda

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #7 on: 21 May 2013, 21:55 »

It would be nice for Pirate FW to be slightly different than Empire FW just for flavor. Perhaps emphasize the economic conquest wherein Empire FW focuses on geographical territory.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #8 on: 22 May 2013, 01:35 »

Giving pirate factions letters of marque for killing the Militia of the opposite faction would be doable?
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Desiderya

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #9 on: 22 May 2013, 05:03 »

You mean FW without pve and farming? Can I has plx?
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #10 on: 22 May 2013, 06:23 »

What I would like to see is Pirate FW being something you can join, but with no buttons or at the very least very minimal button anything. Instead how about using them as a source of breaking up normal FW.

Instead of capping systems pirates that are in pirate FW (I would say it's just as easy to sign up as it is with empire factions since not everyone wants to make the trek to NPC null to sign up) get LP by disrupting the active capping of systems by the empire groups. Also from kills of the empire groups.

Just a thought, but since most pirates are in it for the pews it seems like it could work, and I don't think it would be that hard to implement. I don't for a second think that many pirates or even the RPing pirates would be all that into capping systems, but who doesn't love splosions?

Also I should note that I just now came up with this idea and haven't really thought on it for more than maybe a minute and a half by now so it's by no means fleshed out just a starting point.

I already see enough pirates involved in the regular FW campaigns - let's be honest there are more pirates in FW systems than militia pilots.

Personally I think Silas' idea has the most merit - open up some new ground in Null Sec for them.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #11 on: 22 May 2013, 06:32 »

You mean FW without pve and farming? Can I has plx?

You mean playing Eve without farming ? Can I has plx ?

(^this is my serious face)
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Ember Vykos

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #12 on: 22 May 2013, 09:12 »

What I would like to see is Pirate FW being something you can join, but with no buttons or at the very least very minimal button anything. Instead how about using them as a source of breaking up normal FW.

Instead of capping systems pirates that are in pirate FW (I would say it's just as easy to sign up as it is with empire factions since not everyone wants to make the trek to NPC null to sign up) get LP by disrupting the active capping of systems by the empire groups. Also from kills of the empire groups.

Just a thought, but since most pirates are in it for the pews it seems like it could work, and I don't think it would be that hard to implement. I don't for a second think that many pirates or even the RPing pirates would be all that into capping systems, but who doesn't love splosions?

Also I should note that I just now came up with this idea and haven't really thought on it for more than maybe a minute and a half by now so it's by no means fleshed out just a starting point.

I already see enough pirates involved in the regular FW campaigns - let's be honest there are more pirates in FW systems than militia pilots.

Personally I think Silas' idea has the most merit - open up some new ground in Null Sec for them.

New ground in Null would probably be harder to implement, but I don't know.

One of the problems I've always had with pirate null is that for smaller RP groups it can be pretty hard to make it unless you want to join up with the locals. Provided they actually let you of course.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #13 on: 22 May 2013, 09:30 »

The problem with letters of Marque kind of approach would be that there would have to be overt co-operation by the empires with the pirate factions and CONCORD acceptance of the pirate factions themselves as something that should be dealt or bargained with, which would kind of go against the idea of law enforcement in general.

Of course I have no idea how CONCORD and pirate missions actually go with this notion.

Seems like whole CONCORD is an OOC concept that is made out of handwavium.
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Alain Colcer

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2013, 09:45 »

What many have said here is exactly why i consider the concept of "Pirate FW" wrongly used.

What you want as a pirate is weaken CONCORD and Empire grasp on a specific area so the pirate organization can actually carry on with its own business....


That to me can be read directly as "Pirate Incursions", but with a twist, you sign in for the good guys or the bad guys, so its an incursion with mild NPC presence, but with lots of PC presence fighting over objectives/resources/whatever, with good LP as payment.

And Nullsec alliances can join in if they want, supporting one side or another for some LP.
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