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[Hamish Grayson]

I'd like to create the Napanii expression "to make a thousand cuts" or just "one thousand cuts"  in reference to practicing or training for something.  I couldn't find the word for cut in the primer so we will need to make one up first.

Finnish
leikata: clip, cut, shear, slice
hakata: chop, cut, hack
särkeä: Break
tauko: break, intermission, pause, recess

Japanese
kai: cut, clip, shear, reap, trim, prune
sai: cut
kireme: break, pause, gap, end, rift, interruption, cut
kire: cloth, piece, cut, chop, strip, slice, scrap
wakemae: share, portion, quota, cut
katto: cut, cutting
kizu: wound, injury, hurt, cut, gash, bruise, scratch, flaw, weak point

Here are some ideas;

Kaia
Kei
Taaka
Kaal 
Taka
kakata

[Ken]

Interesting application of such an expression, Hamish.  Isn't the 'thousand cuts' supposed to be a form of execution IRL?  (And just a traveler's tale, I believe.)  In any case, an interesting proposal for a new expression.

Let's see... using my trusty old method of Napanii word thinkerupmejiggery...

New roots:

katak-  cut, slice
taska-  endure, suffer
viirasu-  cleave, separate
eikuge-  slash, cut

New terms:

kataki  v. to cut
katakkone n. a cut (generic term)
taskai  v. to endure, take
viirasui  v. to be separate, apart (also a euphemism for dying)
viirasuone  n. separation, cleavage (yes, in that sense)
eikugei  v. to slash (as with a sword or knife)
eikugone  n. a slash, laceration (usually means a clean cut, as made by a sharp edge; irregular stem)

Now as for "one thousand". 

Hmm, I haven't thought about the Napanii number system past 10 but I'm in favor of a four digit separation between ordinal levels.  By that I mean in English we have a different term for 10 (ten), 100 (hundred), and 1000 (thousand), but afterward we start back at the beginning with 10,000 (ten thousand).  In Asian languages, there is usually a fourth term used in the same way we use "ten thousand".  In Mandarin 10,000 is not ten thousands, but just one wàn (and is properly written 1,0000).  If we take the same basic structure for Napanii numbers, let's establish the following:

kyem 10
baikku 100
utsei 1000
zaan 10000

Couple of ways these can be put together.  Hopefully this is enough for you to find the expression you're looking for with the best meaning. 

In the sense you're talking about, I would say it: Taskai ynzaan shenaa eikugonet.

[Usagi Tsukino]

Ken this is spectacular. A++++ would read and not understand a word of again. 

I have a question for you (or Hamish since he's pretty S-M-R-T in this area too) regarding the honorifics.

I've seen them used (han, guri, etc...) but how prevalent would you think they would be in normal culture?

Example: Was writing a short story and was wondering if Usagi would call her teacher Teacher-oipeiridei (I assembled that one myself; one who teaches, I think... I'm not good at this - and no, his name isn't actually 'Teacher'...  ) or Mister Teacher, or perhaps even Col. Teacher as he's a SWA instructor.

With that in mind, how would Random Caldari A address Random Caldari B if they bumped into them on the street? That is, assuming they were both Napaniiese speakers and they even bothered to speak to each other.

Again, super work to all involved.

[Hamish Grayson]

Interesting application of such an expression, Hamish.  Isn't the 'thousand cuts' supposed to be a form of execution IRL?  (And just a traveler's tale, I believe.)  In any case, an interesting proposal for a new expression.

It is a method of execution, I believe but I got the idea for this meaning with the Caldari from the technique of ''practice cutting' in kendo.    For example, if a new student wishes to get better his teacher would instruct him to go make a thousand cuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oePAjfkYw&feature=related

Example: Was writing a short story and was wondering if Usagi would call her teacher Teacher-oipeiridei (I assembled that one myself; one who teaches, I think... I'm not good at this - and no, his name isn't actually 'Teacher'...  ) or Mister Teacher, or perhaps even Col. Teacher as he's a SWA instructor.

I think it would depend on the relationship Usagi has with the teach.   His rank of Colonel might trump all if they are very formal or in formal situations.   If they are close and the teach considers him or herself to be Usagi's  mentor then the teacher honorific would be perfect.

With that in mind, how would Random Caldari A address Random Caldari B if they bumped into them on the street? That is, assuming they were both Napaniiese speakers and they even bothered to speak to each other.

Again, super work to all involved.

In the streets of the financial district on New Caldari, yes.   On the lower decks of a mining station in low-sec probably not. 

[Artabanus]

Saisieni:

The glossaries over at Chronicles of EVE (http://www.evechronicles.com/apocryphal/shorts/napr/napr6.html) have been updated with the new roots, numerals and expressions.

Rikaato,

Artabanus

[Usagi Tsukino]

<3 Hamish

[Benjamin Shepherd]

Eh.

I may be the only one here that stands out, but I don't think this is useful. Not that you haven't worked hard on this, but to me this seems like too much intrusion into canon, even if a language wasn't specifically stated by CCP. Nice work with linguistics, though.

You must be a professor of some sort.

[Artabanus]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Obviously this is not Canon...which is why it's found in the thread calld Player-Driven Content. But, on that note, it's interesting that CCP Dropbear has said regarding this project.

Check it out:

http://eve-search.com/thread/1362548

Of course, if anyone finds this useless, then I would perhaps suggest just ignoring this thread and finding something else that gets your goose.

Art

[Ken]

  Oh, that's just Ben Shepherd.  He doesn't like anything Caldari anymore. 

[Artabanus]

Why is that??? Caldari are the bomb!

[BloodBird]

In your opinion. Perhaps he disagrees.

[Artabanus]

Lol. I love EVE and everything EVE-related...but I never cease to marvel at how personal people take things sometimes. I never meant my statements as serious as they are being taken. Ok...here's some political correctness...everyone has a right to their opinion, and a right to feel they way they feel, and to state the way they feel, and to disagree, etc., etc. Disagreements can enrich a discussion tremendously, and everyone should feel good about any position they may take regarding a matter at hand.

Really.

[Ken]

Gentelmen, gentlemen.  What is all the hubbub about?  This is Backstage, but you don't have to be that civil.  Back to language topics!

[Senn Typhos]

I have two language-related points. This can really be addressed to anyone who feels like discussing, I just want to keep this thread going because it interests me so much... if this needs to be split into a new topic, I won't complain, but I doubt it'll spark a huge amount of conversation.

1. In one of my English courses we've been discussing how language is affected by rhythm. The English language, because of its syllable construction, among other things, is a language of "twos," so to speak. Iambic pentameter is something that comes to us naturally because of the nature of our language. Similarly, other languages developed their own styles of poems based on the rhythm inherent in their languages.

I'm wondering, do people see Caldari language mirroring any real-world style of rhyming speech, based on the kinds of extrapolations we can make from the existing names/words? This is again completely speculative, but I think it'd be an interesting topic if only to touch on, if only to get another feel for the language.  Personally, I could see this language fitting trochaic meter (think the lyrics of "Dies Irae").


2. Caldari rule, losers drool.

[Artabanus]

1. I'm wondering, do people see Caldari language mirroring any real-world style of rhyming speech, based on the kinds of extrapolations we can make from the existing names/words? This is again completely speculative, but I think it'd be an interesting topic if only to touch on, if only to get another feel for the language.  Personally, I could see this language fitting trochaic meter (think the lyrics of "Dies Irae").

Hey Senn:

I suppose this may fall within my camp (Orthography and Phonology).

Here is a quote from the Primer:

Napanii is a mora-timed language. A mora (plural, moras, or morae) is a unit of sound used in phonology that determines syllable weight, which in turn determines stress or timing in some languages. Napanii moras possess the same approximate time value and stress[...] each mora [...] is pronounced, with the accent falling on the first or second mora depending on the word. Knowing which mora to stress is oftentimes a matter of rote memorization.

Having said that, it seems to me that Napanii would not possess a prosody similar to anything within Western languages; or perhaps I should say that the foot that Napanii uses would be found more easily in languages such as Japanese, and even Finnish, but that these meters would be more rare in languages like English. My uneducated guess would be that Napanii uses (what we call in English), either a Trochee...a stressed syllable followed by an unstressed one, or a Dactyl... a long syllable followed by two short syllables. For example, I-SHU-KO-NE (or more frequently, I-SHU-KON), seems to be a good example of this.

That is just my guess after having worked with the language; I suspect that due to the wide range of users/players, from varying linguistic backgrounds, that there may be a need for some flexibility when it comes to something like this for the Napanii language. Esperanto for example, allows for speakers to superimpose their native language meter/rhythm upon it, so that even though two different speakers from different parts of the world are using the same words to say the same thing, the meter which they use to say it may be different. This in turn may cause them some difficulty in understanding each other, initially, until each becomes accustomed to the other's rhythm of speech. Something of the sort may occur with Napanii, although, I also suspect that Napanii - in reference to RL - is primarily a written language and not spoken; not to say that that has to remain the case...I just think that that is reality for the moment.

These are just some of my humble thoughts. I wonder what (if anything), anyone else has thought of for this.

This is a fascinating aspect of language in my opinion.

Art