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Author Topic: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?  (Read 5717 times)

Lithium Flower

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #30 on: 12 Apr 2013, 07:49 »

Instant transporters are too shiney and clean to my eyes for a setting like Eve.

It's like if Neo was suddenly beamed up to the Nebuchadnezzar just after having awoken from the red pill. The way it actually happens is way more gritty. The guy ends up unplugging itself with difficulty and the help of a spider drone (and it looks painful), and gets dumped into some hazardous liquid that makes me think of biomass waste disposal. Like ectoplasm.
How about not-so shiney-and-clean BLOODY transporters, that accidentally (~0.5% chance) can tear you apart in two?  :eek:
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #31 on: 12 Apr 2013, 08:17 »

Don't shields in Star Trek block beaming attempts (with the exception of macguffin/deus ex machina species/techs for episodic *gasp* moments - borg for example)?  Though beaming nukes into Wraith ships was a big thing in SG-Atlantis (no shields, it didn't work well on Goa-Uld ships because of this). 

As for DD and bomb blocking in hi-sec - Aren't all capsuleer vessels riddled with space magic Jovian grade malware that can basically deny us ship control in certain situations?  That same software that makes us less vulnerable to the Incursion DoS/viral attacks that prevent direct DED responce or the intervention of local Navies in a meaningful manner (and which also rendered ground defenses inert apparently).

Shields do block transporters according to ST canon, though I have vague memories of being able to do some magical voodoo with shield frequency modulation doodads to beam through them.

Enterprise took place before (most) starships had shielding as we know it, though.
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2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Lyn Farel

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #32 on: 12 Apr 2013, 08:30 »

Instant transporters are too shiney and clean to my eyes for a setting like Eve.

It's like if Neo was suddenly beamed up to the Nebuchadnezzar just after having awoken from the red pill. The way it actually happens is way more gritty. The guy ends up unplugging itself with difficulty and the help of a spider drone (and it looks painful), and gets dumped into some hazardous liquid that makes me think of biomass waste disposal. Like ectoplasm.
How about not-so shiney-and-clean BLOODY transporters, that accidentally (~0.5% chance) can tear you apart in two?  :eek:
Free clone as insurance provided!

Ah like in YC 107 when that Jove eccentric ambassador exploded himself into several pieces all across New Eden ?
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #33 on: 12 Apr 2013, 08:36 »

The biggest problem would be the replicator technology that would rear its utopian head after functioning transporters would be introduced.

No more scarcity in New Eden, no more grimdark.
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Mithfindel

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #34 on: 12 Apr 2013, 10:18 »

The biggest problem would be the replicator technology that would rear its utopian head after functioning transporters would be introduced.

No more scarcity in New Eden, no more grimdark.
E=mc^2 coupled with a less than perfect efficiency factor could take care of that problem. Essentially, you could have two ways of building things: The old fashioned way, and then using lots and lots and lots of energy to do energy to mass conversions. "Replicating" things from energy alone would, thus, require either a huge capacitor to be loaded with some "slower" energy sources, or a good supply of "fast" energy sources. Along with the nasty issue that half the energy spent is spent towards creating antimatter and only half to creating matter, which would greatly limit the use of energy-matter conversion, something mostly forgotten in "a wizard did it" style space opera. Or then there would need to be technology that builds rapidly stuff from protons, neutrons and electrons, requiring the harvest of suitable gases etc. for the raw materials.

Similarly, transporter efficiency could be limited by having transporters only function between specific machines (no beaming a warhead on board the enemy ship unless they're specifically allowing you to do send one to their transporter room).

Of course, neither thing is really needed in EVE. We already have perfectly average hand-waved methods of creating things.
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #35 on: 12 Apr 2013, 10:49 »

Transporters? In Eve?

... Um. Hm.

DUST 514 currently has a transporter of sorts, the "drop uplink." It's a portable spawn point about the size and shape of a dinner plate, great for dropping behind enemy lines as long as it stays hidden-- or for camping with a shotgun once it gets found.

Thing is, I'm pretty sure that it's not canonically a "teleportation device" any more than the cloning units are (you "materialize" outside those, too). The name suggests a beacon for precision-dropping individual suits, probably launched from the MCC.

Alternatively, it could be a pocket wormhole generator or short-range matter transporter with a nasty potential failure rate that makes it excessively dangerous for transporting anybody who isn't already immortal. It hasn't really been explained in detail.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #36 on: 12 Apr 2013, 11:05 »

There's a Dust item that is described as a miniature wormhole projector for teleportation, but it's also pretty clear about the fact that use of it is very very very unhealthy for you.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Aria Jenneth

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #37 on: 12 Apr 2013, 11:08 »

That's probably the drop uplink. I'll check its in-game desc and get back to you.
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #38 on: 12 Apr 2013, 15:49 »

Verified. The drop uplink is a short-range wormhole generator.

It's got a couple issues.

First, it's utterly agonizing to use, which is in keeping with grimdark and also with DUST's theme of disregard for soldiers' safety and comfort.

(No, DUST troopers apparently do not get their pain receptors switched off. The full sensory experience of getting double-tapped through the chest with flechette fire from a tactical sniper rifle, complete with shattered ribs, perforated lungs, and ruptured aorta, is yours to cherish in this life and the next [and the next, and the next, and the next].)

Second, that pain is not just your nerves being tricked into reporting damage; it's actual damage at the cellular level, causing celluar degeneration and death.

No mention of what it does to people nearby, or what fun kinds of radiation it spreads.

At a guess, this probably isn't a routine cargo loading device unless your crew is wearing hazmat gear.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #39 on: 12 Apr 2013, 16:21 »

It's probably not even good for nonliving cargo - radiation fluxes have a habit of messing with anything more advanced than a vacuum tube.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #40 on: 12 Apr 2013, 16:53 »

E=mc^2 coupled with a less than perfect efficiency factor could take care of that problem.

In a culture where you have free access to solar radiation and the energy created by it, wouldn't you have limitless amount of energy?
Thus pretty much making the less than perfect efficiency meaningless?

What my point is, if you have limitless amount of power, then efficiency is meaningless?

There has never been any lack of energy in New Eden...

I think this gets a bit complicated... because... I think it actually means that the scarcity that is in New Eden is created for the controlling of the population, just like in real world.... 8)
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #41 on: 13 Apr 2013, 01:00 »

It's probably not even good for nonliving cargo - radiation fluxes have a habit of messing with anything more advanced than a vacuum tube.

It can't be all that disruptive; DUST operatives' gear comes through in working order, even if the operative's clone now has a cellular half-life. Some of the lingering effects might be ... bad, however. Radioactive trade goods, FTW.

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Louella Dougans

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #42 on: 13 Apr 2013, 01:26 »

I thought that the looting of cargo containers (from 1500m and less, later from 2500m and less), was due to small tractor beams?
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Ghost Hunter

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #43 on: 13 Apr 2013, 02:00 »

Ghost and Caul: Can you give me some examples of the wallbanging and worm-can-opening?
Because I can't see any.
I'm especially interested in why and how lore and gameplay would have to shift.

Running off the top of my head :

(Elf Drones = little helper drones that we never see, such as salvage drones before they existed as a model)

Teleporters are introduced, and either must be retconned into existence or unveiled as a new technology. Retconning has issues in streamlining the PF, as suddenly its presenting itself in situations where Elf Drones quite happily handled things (cargo moving, etc). Adding new technology is neat, but now we have to limit its applications very hard.

Teleport materials? Why not teleport bombs into the enemy ship? Well shields can stop them, oh wait the shields are gone - armor tankers get gibbed. Maybe armor can block teleport voodoo rays - ok now we're into structure. Instagib from structure? Maybe we should just not let them teleport into ships at all. What stops them from teleporting into ships? Inability to lock onto a moving object? Reason X for implications Y?

How about teleporting things from a planet to a ship? What can you teleport, and why? Can you teleport people ala Star Trek? No? How do you salvage people from wrecks if you use a teleporter instead of Elf Drones? Do you use both? Why put the space for a teleporter when the Elf Drones do it just fine already? Is the teleporter tech cheap and compact, expensive and compact, cheap but bulky?

If you can teleport, why not teleport your Capsule to a safe location some hundred kilometers away? If the teleporters have any kind of range, surely your matter can be relocated instantly once your ship explodes. No? Why can they not, are there certain materials and complexities you cannot teleport? Do you need to have some kind of heavy instracture to use the teleporter? If you can teleport goods from a planet to an orbiting structure, how is it better than using the railgun/rocket pod/etc methods already in use? Cheaper, more efficient, bigger load?

My point in essence, teleportation is an extremely powerful technology. You will need to be very clear in what it can do, and what it cannot do. The more you limit it for gameplay reasons, and then lore reasons, the more worthless it becomes. What ideal roles teleporters would be good in, technology already exists for. Cheaper, more reliable and (vaguely?) established technologies. If this was the start of EVE Online, you could make an argument for teleporters. Nowadays, we just have everything they do covered already in EVE's unique way.

This is in part why the Sansha's Nation Wormhole Generator technology is a Big Deal™, it's the ultimate form of teleporter. The ability to instantly go anywhere in space from Point A to Point B with seemingly unrestrained capacity for your star ships. In lieu of any new details limiting this technology, it's an End Game level of power. Nothing compares to it, in theory you could start opening wormholes inside planetary cores and ripping them apart from the inside. Were it to start being used for anything other than 'ominous threat', it would have to be removed immediately or stripped down to worthlessness to balance the game environment.

Edit ; Just to head off the 'but Incursions are already using it!' line of thinking. The full potential of the teleporter/Wormhole technology and the Nation's military might are not being brought to bear, or presented as such. This is a very clear limitation from a game master design perspective, the same as with every other faction. I'm speaking largely in the context of it existing as a 'background prop', much like how Elf Drones do.
« Last Edit: 13 Apr 2013, 02:07 by Ghost Hunter »
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Ché Biko

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Re: Can you beam me up, Scotty? or Transporters in New Eden?
« Reply #44 on: 14 Apr 2013, 16:15 »

Why do you want this so badly?
I don't know what gave the impression that I want this so badly. I just prefer game mechanics being in sync with lore.
Why can't you use bombs, DDDs, and cynos in high-sec?
Because CONCORD can lock down your modules, and the Empires have cynojammers in their systems.
My question was rethorical in nature, and was an answer to Desiderya's questions, that are very similar to those you ask. I should have been more clear about that. The same reasons why you can't teleport bombs on ships etc. can also be the CONCORD hardwiring that restricts bomb use.

Nearly every tech in EVE, even Elf Drones, raises questions and needs to be thought out. I still don't see where transporter tech is any different from other sci-fi tech in EVE in that regard.

Also, in game mechanic terms, it is pretty clear what they could or could not do: the same things the Elf Drones can or can't do.

Personally, I think the best tech for EVE transporters is not based on Energy<->Mass conversion or wormholes, but on warp drives.
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