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[Morwen Lagann]

The issue is not the scale of reward by itself. All other things equal, you will generally make more money doing an activity in lowsec than you would in highsec, and more money doing that activity in nullsec than in lowsec.

Making lots of money in highsec, if you're not doing incursions (I haven't in a while, tired of the drama between communities), is entirely down to either doing tedious, boring shit all day (missions, trading, mining, industry), or getting really damn lucky on your dice rolls (exploration). So it's a case of either getting really lucky, or putting in a lot of time and effort in the majority of cases. (Market scamming and the like counts as "getting really lucky" imo, but opinions may vary on that.)

The problem as I see it is that the risk does not scale evenly with the reward. Or at least the perceived risk doesn't. There's more risk in lowsec than there is in highsec (no shit) but there's also probably more risk in lowsec than in nullsec for the average player. But the amount the increase isn't in line with the increase of potential reward.

And no, I'm not suggesting lowering rewards in highsec, or reducing risk in lowsec.

I'm suggesting increasing rewards in lowsec. Make more lowsec-only sites or activities. Revenant blueprints are a great example here - you want a Revenant, you gotta go and pop lowsec Incursions to get one, or pay someone who has. You can't get them any other way.  Same deal with a bunch of the Ladar sites - a lot of the drug materials are only available in low/nullsec, particularly the Nanite Control skillbook and some of the gases.

Make the rewards juicy enough that people will risk it. Reducing risk won't work, and just isn't feasible in the first place because it'd negate all the work that has been done to improve lowsec for PVPers in the last couple expansions.

[Anslol]

wise and sexy words

+1

[Graelyn]

Can't really speak for null, specifically, but it is my experience is that it is easier for ALLIANCES to make money in Null and low, harder for individuals within those alliances.

Correct.

This is because Alliance income in null (on the large scale) goes more or less directly to it's wallets through concentrated streams. This leads to the big money requiring a 'trickle-down' economic model to enrich it's playerbase. Real-world jokes about that phrase aside, it's not the best path for EVE.

Null-sec cash flow has to be made to work bottom-up, not top-down.

[Vincent Pryce]

It's easy to make bank in nulsec if you know what you are doing and keep your wits about you.

As for people leaving due to highsec nerfed? No. Majority of them do what they always do; They whine on the forums for a several months but still bend over and take it up the ass like always, but keep playing during this whine parade.

[Silas Vitalia]

It's easy to make bank in nulsec if you know what you are doing and keep your wits about you.

As for people leaving due to highsec nerfed? No. Majority of them do what they always do; They whine on the forums for a several months but still bend over and take it up the ass like always, but keep playing during this whine parade.

Generally yes, but there was a mass exodus after 'incarna' fail parade.

Dialogue is good, but coddling and catering to mob demands is always a bad idea.

This is a special game, probably the only MMO's out there built on a mountain of tears and unconsentual playstyles, but also built on the possibility that you the player can seek your own destiny, success and failure is up to you. 

I drink your milkshake. This is the core principle the game design needs to revolve around.

[Anslol]

It's easy to make bank in nulsec if you know what you are doing and keep your wits about you.

As for people leaving due to highsec nerfed? No. Majority of them do what they always do; They whine on the forums for a several months but still bend over and take it up the ass like always, but keep playing during this whine parade.

Remember though that most players don't even use the forums. Just the vocal attention whores. Many don't bother with the forum because they don't want to. They just want to shoot red crosses, or rocks, or trade, or something. They won't announce I'm Leaving No Stuff 4 U!

They'll simply leave quietly, taking their $15+/mo with them.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Evidence please, because past experience says otherwise.

Anecdotal Evidence Isn't.

[Matoko]

I, for one, am interested to see where they go with this. Never really got into exploration, but having some more interesting things to poke around at would satisfy a few folks I know. And industry... Lets be honest, of all the Spreadsheets In Space, industry is the Spreadsheet-iest. If they find a way to make that more interesting, or at least clean it up, I will count that as a victory.

This kind of comes in at a personal level, trying to start a shipyard corp. Which has run into a couple of problems. First, industry is tedious, confusing, complex, and ultimately boring. With the end result that nobody wants to utilize it as a mechanic, or if they do they just run it solo or with pre-established friends. The second is that an industry corp needs people; miners and production masters, at least, if not haulers, administration, and even security. Couple that with problem one, and you're in one big loop going nowhere.

So yeah, changes to industry? Hell yes I'll stick around and see what they do.

[Lyn Farel]

I need to clarify that money is only a means to an end in this game.  What is used for and why it is needed is the important part.

The reason you should be getting more money for difficult things is the same reason it's this way in real life (most of the time).

The easy things everyone can do are not rewarded at the same level as the difficult things a few people can do. The person bagging your groceries doesn't make the same salary as the one doing brain surgery.

If it takes 0 effort to do something in this game it should be severely nerfed.  No one needs to make that big cash money running high sec missions, because that money distorts the market for people buying things for other risky activities. 

I need to make more cash money in low than you do in high to buy things that can stand up to the gameplay in lowsec.

People in null need to make more money still to build bigger things that can stand up to the gameplay in null.

As much as I do not disagree with the points you make, your wording makes me raise a lot of red flags.

Like comparing that to real life. I do not play a game to get a second job. That's what Eve already is, and I do not want to see it becoming even more like it. It is already painful for me to go with the burden of making isk to pay my PLEXes with highsec revenue and the low time per week I still have remaining. It's not fun to make missions or anything else pve related. Some people may like it, but some other people just do that mindless farming because that's the only choice they have. I agree that boosting and enhancing that gameplay is a sound idea, but you will never make a pve repeatable thing so much interesting that players will love it EVERY TIME and that FOR LIFE. After the first few weeks/months, it will become boring again since it will be another form of farming to make money, a new burden.

And as much as I enjoyed lowsec and all in the past, I do not want to get back there. If I can not pay anymore for my PLEXes, which is already a pain since they nerfed L4s already countless times, this combined with the PLEX having skyrocketed the last year from around 350M isk to 550M isk, then I guess I have no choice left but to cancel.

And I can't believe I am actually saying good of PLEXes that I used to consider a curse in the past.

Eventually, either if you nerf high sec income or boost low/sec and nullsec income, prices will go accordingly. It will eventually get harder to make money in high sec. It will then ask dedication and make it a very hostile climate to casuals like me. High sec hostile to casuals, what a joke. Casuals pushed directly in the arms of beloved dangerous areas... I find these consequences ludicrous.

But anyway, my case is not really representative of anything. The real issue about me is that the game stopped interesting me years ago. I only play for RP, and do not want to pay 15€ per month for that (especially when people can pay in dollars and not me :/).

And yes, the gameplay is screwed to the core. The only way to enjoy yourself in pvp for example, to get your 5 minutes of pvp before your ship gets blown up, is to farm for hours. Very motivating.

They should do more like they have done recently for FW. It was promising.

It's easy to make bank in nulsec if you know what you are doing and keep your wits about you.

As for people leaving due to highsec nerfed? No. Majority of them do what they always do; They whine on the forums for a several months but still bend over and take it up the ass like always, but keep playing during this whine parade.

Thank you. I warms my heart, really.

[Cmdr Baxter]

I like to go scanning from time-to-time to see what turns up, but I have two gripes. First, the interface is clunky and dated. I spent more time zooming and doing the "trying-to-move-a-probe-but-actually-clicks-the-scan-radius-for-another-probe" act than actually running the scan. Yes, I grasp that that's part of scanning things down. But it gets repetitive very fast; I've lost track of the number of times that clicking the scan radius by accident has happened.

Second, the only thing I manage to turn up is ... you guessed it. Unstable wormholes! Even in low-population highsec systems (we're talking single digits in some of the most remote areas possible) all I find is those ****ing wormholes. I really don't care about the money from it. What I want is to find something other than a bubble-in-space. An actual site would be nice, every once-in-a-while. Just once.

Speaking as a highsec carebear (who'd have guessed?) if CCP messed with incomes I'd just keep on going. There's stuff to find that's good and exciting for missions - if you're more into the story, like I am - but you have to get out there and find it. 95% of the missioning community doesn't do this. The most excitement I've had in a long time was when I realized this weekend that I (a) was eligible for COSMOS missions, and (b), I blew past 5.0 State standings a long, long, long, LONG time ago and was thus eligible for the live epic arc. (Edit: Guess my mind was somewhere else...  ) In the middle of all this, I went back to Venilen to pick up something and there was somebody whining in local about how repetitive the missions are.

 

That said, I have no interest in going out to lowsec. While I think there needs to be some rebalancing to encourage people to move out there, I personally have zero interest in doing so. The last time I went across the border was back in '07 to Pure Blind. Not only did I get killed more than once, which I could live with, but I came back to highsec bankrupt. I don't consider that fun or entertaining, and that was despite the fact that I was flying with CAIN (who I consider a group of outstanding PVP'ers). I still consider it a profoundly negative experience overall.

[Lyn Farel]

I would like to add that it's not the money and rewards that will make people go to places they do not like. It's like offering money to people in exchange of shooting themselves in the foot. Only masochists are going to actually accept. I sure know that would not.

If you want people to go in low sec, then make it interesting. Interesting here means a good gameplay, and a solid base revenue not based on farm.

[Cmdr Baxter]

I would like to add that it's not the money and rewards that will make people go to places they do not like. It's like offering money to people in exchange of shooting themselves in the foot. Only masochists are going to actually accept. I sure know that would not.

If you want people to go in low sec, then make it interesting. Interesting here means a good gameplay, and a solid base revenue not based on farm.

+1. Entirely agree. My earlier comments about wanting to stay in highsec aside, I'd be willing to return and give it a shot (again) if there was more to it other than "dodge every ship in sight and oh! oops! you just got blown up so now you have to spend a couple hours grinding for a new ship." (And I must've been the King of Farm in Pure Blind. An Osprey with a cloak, trying to mine out that last bit of kernite while dodging roving gangs.....  )

[Ghost Hunter]

I am personally hopeful the fundamentals for ship hunting are changed, but most likely not for this expansion. Local and the disgustingly easy way it is to both find people and see that you are being hunted usually distorts combat down to station/gate camping in my experience. Would vastly like more emphasis on different points of interest to be brought up so a different spacescape is presented for combat.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Confirming a separate category is needed for scanning Wormholes. Cmdr Baxter covers the one aspect of it - how intensely frustrating it is to spend hours looking for various exploration sites in highsec, only to find lots of spacebubbles - and I'll add that the inverse is true as well: When you're in a W-Space system and are looking for the 2 or 3 signatures that are actual potential exits, nothing is more frustrating than spending over an hour having to sort through otherwise useless oodles of signatures.

[Morwen Lagann]

Confirming a separate category is needed for scanning Wormholes. Cmdr Baxter covers the one aspect of it - how intensely frustrating it is to spend hours looking for various exploration sites in highsec, only to find lots of spacebubbles - and I'll add that the inverse is true as well: When you're in a W-Space system and are looking for the 2 or 3 signatures that are actual potential exits, nothing is more frustrating than spending over an hour having to sort through otherwise useless oodles of signatures.

In w-space, the only "Unknown" signatures are wormholes.