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[Morwen Lagann]

I'm not too happy with the changes to capital ship requirements.

The last thing this game needs is more of them flying around, imo.

[BloodBird]

I'm not too happy with the changes to capital ship requirements.

The last thing this game needs is more of them flying around, imo.

While I agree with this - so much I don't think saying 'I agree' even get close - the damage is done. The new skill changes will likely shave time off your average skill-plan to fly capitals, but it's a rather moot point. Capitals is the new Battleship of null wars and little will change that. Capital toons are still being trained and there won't be a big difference to be had from a little more or less time, sadly.

I mean seriously, back a few years when I left the null-life behind people were more than willing to welp dozens dreads/carriers to kill a super of any kind, I don't want to think to deeply at what they throw away today...

[Lyn Farel]

People will fly in them anyway.

Caps requirement is not the issue, cap balance and actual meaning is.

[Alizabeth]

I'm not too happy with the changes to capital ship requirements.

The last thing this game needs is more of them flying around, imo.

Just because it's less training time (and it really is, the JDC req is less than most nullsec alliances require.  Same with TWR.) doesn't mean the barrier to entry is lowered.  The skillbooks are still going to cost a significant amount of ISK and it's still going to take two weeks to build one.  GSF did a survey of the members recently to find out what was keeping pilots out of capitals, a significant number said the cost of capital skill books and cost of the ship. 

Are some, ahem, players going to get in a carrier they have no business flying?  Of course.  Are they going to show up on killboards?  Of course.  As long as they keep the long build time, that's going to keep the, ahem, people that should not be flying them from losing them like hotcakes.

Although, it is a little odd that they require the jump skills for the carrier (which starts out with the longest jump range to begin with) but not the dread.  JDC V is pretty much mandatory for dread pilots-and supers and titans as well.

The sad thing is that I am going to be training for a Thanatos before they make the changes. *sighs*

[orange]

Although, it is a little odd that they require the jump skills for the carrier (which starts out with the longest jump range to begin with) but not the dread.  JDC V is pretty much mandatory for dread pilots-and supers and titans as well.

I think it kind of depends on how one views the importance of power projection for the Dread vs Carrier.   In my opinion, a single carrier (or pair) enables interesting sub-capital power projection options, while the Dread has a much narrower role from the start.

It requires looking at the Dread/Carrier choice through the lens of smaller organizations and what uses they may have for them.  For the kind of power projection large entities are interested in, clearly JDC V is needed for dread pilots.  But for a smaller organization with less lower power projection requirements (say a constellation), then JDC may not be as important.

[Alizabeth]

Although, it is a little odd that they require the jump skills for the carrier (which starts out with the longest jump range to begin with) but not the dread.  JDC V is pretty much mandatory for dread pilots-and supers and titans as well.

I think it kind of depends on how one views the importance of power projection for the Dread vs Carrier.   In my opinion, a single carrier (or pair) enables interesting sub-capital power projection options, while the Dread has a much narrower role from the start.

It requires looking at the Dread/Carrier choice through the lens of smaller organizations and what uses they may have for them.  For the kind of power projection large entities are interested in, clearly JDC V is needed for dread pilots.  But for a smaller organization with less lower power projection requirements (say a constellation), then JDC may not be as important.

Right.  I tend to view everything through the lens of null sec sov warfare. But still.  JDC 4 should be trained before undocking your cap ship.  JDO V is mandatory, in all cases and JDC IV is about a week and a half longer

[Morwen Lagann]

I don't disagree with people needing to have JDC 4 minimum to undock their carrier or capital once they own it. JFC 4 as well.

I do, however, disagree with the notion that ISK cost for skillbooks and the ships, or construction time, are barriers to entry, least of all to your chunk of the nullsec community. Selling PLEX is not difficult, and if you're trying to tell us that GSF has trouble producing sufficient numbers of capitals or that its members have trouble making stupid large amounts of ISK, I have a jump bridge to/from Jita that I'm looking to sell.

People who are specifically motivated to getting into capitals will make ends meet in order to accomplish that goal. If they want to fly capitals, they will find the ISK, and they will find a source for hulls if they're expecting to lose them.

[Alizabeth]

I don't think the change will significantly affect null alliances.  They already push pilots to get into carriers.  You're more likely to see more caps in low sec, flown by people with no business in caps.