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[Seriphyn]

I thought it was always known that only Holders can own slaves 

[Gottii]

Don't get cheated Mitty, I'm worth way more in strippers than that.

Like a lot.

I'm talking a mountain of them. A mountain made of strippers.

Lord Vaari, the Golden Mountain.

Lord Aldrith, the Gyrating Mountain.

[Karmilla Strife]

I thought it was always known that only Holders can own slaves 

That was my impression as well. I'm actually kind of happy that something I suspected, ie: contracting out of slave labor, is something that exists.

[Ghost Hunter]

I'm fairly impressed with the MIO showing up in that thread, actually.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Indeed, for established Amarr characters a little handwavium can fix this - no biggie. The problem it presents has more to do with the boundaries between baseliner and capsuleer economies, and who is responsible for them.

i.e., going back to the recent Ammatar thing, does this now mean that the vast majority of slaves sold by the Ammatar onto the capsuleer market are illegal sales? If so, would the Mandate or its corporations be legally accountable for selling to an uncontrolled marketplace instead of going through proper legal channels?

[Karmilla Strife]

I think Amarr Civil Service sells slaves on the capsuleer market too. I don't think it's something unique to the Mandate. Again though that's more to do with the boundary between baseline and capsuleer economies. It would be interesting though if nebulous laws in the Mandate were a source of illegally acquired slaves in the Empire.

[lallara zhuul]

It is not the slavery thing here that is interesting.

It is the fact that the capsuleer was referred to as a commoner.

Basically meaning that there is no special place for the capsuleer in the Amarrian hierarchy above a commoner.

Also, being a Holder is not a small thing.

There is an oath involved, there is the fact that you will be part of the feudal system as someone who people will owe fealthy to and someone you as a Holder will owe fealthy to.

It is not just a title that can be 'purchased' for a bit.

It is a life long commitment.

I guess that is why the Custodial Service Contract was created in the first place.

So that people with oodles of money could have slaves.

The specifics of the Contract would be really interesting.

Who can it be given to?
Do they still have the obligation to Reclaim the slaves?
Is there obvious loopholes?

Schtuff like dat.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I think Amarr Civil Service sells slaves on the capsuleer market too. I don't think it's something unique to the Mandate. Again though that's more to do with the boundary between baseline and capsuleer economies. It would be interesting though if nebulous laws in the Mandate were a source of illegally acquired slaves in the Empire.

There are a few Amarr corps that do, but I was just using the Mandate as an example because of the recent event highlighting that nebulous boundary. It's something that's going to need to get resolved, I think.

[Silas Vitalia]

It is not the slavery thing here that is interesting.

It is the fact that the capsuleer was referred to as a commoner.

Basically meaning that there is no special place for the capsuleer in the Amarrian hierarchy above a commoner.

Also, being a Holder is not a small thing.

There is an oath involved, there is the fact that you will be part of the feudal system as someone who people will owe fealthy to and someone you as a Holder will owe fealthy to.

It is not just a title that can be 'purchased' for a bit.

It is a life long commitment.

I guess that is why the Custodial Service Contract was created in the first place.

So that people with oodles of money could have slaves.

The specifics of the Contract would be really interesting.

Who can it be given to?
Do they still have the obligation to Reclaim the slaves?
Is there obvious loopholes?

Schtuff like dat.

Arcturus referred to himself as one, in that his father worked -for- a Holder, so it seems appropriate for the MIO to address him as a commoner.

Capsuleer's place in Amarr society is more nebulous, as it probably matters more who your family is and your personal rung on the food chain, rather than the capsuleer part.

I do feel small titles of nobility would not be difficult with the right resources and pressure, however. In our own history those things were often given out like hotcakes when Nobility needed cash infusions, or as rewards for service, etc.

[Karmilla Strife]

Lallara, I think the OP in the thread implied himself to be a commoner. I don't think the MIO actor was implying that all capsuleers are automatically commoners.

Other than that I agree on all points.

[Saede Riordan]

Yeah, I could see holdership given out something along the lines of being knighted by the next holder up in rank to you. Of course you'll always be lower on the pole then that holder, unless a higher up holder raises you up.

[Silas Vitalia]

Right, let's also not forget there's a Crusade on; nothing says 'nice job killing heathens' like a few lordships handed out to good officers.

[Mitara Newelle]

I was under the impression capsuleers could own slaves as well, hence my having them.  There was nothing stopping me from buying them, nor was I stopped by any authorities during transport.

Hopefully the MIO agent gets back to me with some more detail.  Upon further thought I don't think Mit would keep slaves just as custodial crew, nor would she feel right about buying into nobility(granted title would be another thing entirely, but I don't see that happening), so my options are narrowing.

[Silas Vitalia]

I was under the impression capsuleers could own slaves as well, hence my having them.  There was nothing stopping me from buying them, nor was I stopped by any authorities during transport.

Hopefully the MIO agent gets back to me with some more detail.  Upon further thought I don't think Mit would keep slaves just as custodial crew, nor would she feel right about buying into nobility(granted title would be another thing entirely, but I don't see that happening), so my options are narrowing.

Decorated holy warriors of PIE with years of service and bringing all the love and good-good feelings and positive press to the faithful with their exploits? I could almost guarantee PIE membership would have been tossed all sorts of titles from small and larger holders alike.

[Aldrith Shutaq]

I'd also be interested to know if slaves can be owned by an entity or organization rather than just individual Holders. What about corprately-owned slaves? I'm sure PIE Inc. would employ a few tens of thousands at least.