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[Seriphyn]

I just finished reading Bawa Satinder Singh's 'Raja Gulab Singh's Roel in the First Anglo-Sikh War' on JSTOR, and holy crap, that was a read. Basically, this Raja Gulab Singh sold out his Sikh homeland to the Brits (though he wasn't the sole perpretrator of this) so that he would be able to consolidate power of the Punjab for himself.

It got me thinking, that regardless of the various cultural blocs in the world, there are some universals to human nature, particularly those in power acting in a Machiavellian manner. The same, I feel, would apply to EVE. I think the whole 'grimdark' thing is apart of it, and amongst all of the factional leadership of EVE, this exists.

However, sometime I feel that just because the governments of such factions are full of a-holes that this applies to the citizens as well, which I think is a bad misappropiation to make. You will have selfless and selfish people across all stratas...however, when selfless individuals make it into a position of power, they may develop a form of societal disconnection from reality which makes their actions appear questionable...or perhaps they realize the bad consequences of what they will do, but subscribe to a 'ends justify the means' type. They DO exist in EVE (see, Souro Foiritan in 'The Paths They Chose'), and not all Machiavellian...

The so-called 'underdog' factions seem exempt from this. There seems to be an assumption in parts that 100% of the Caldari and Minmatar are onboard their faction's goals to the death, because they cannot be possibly be considered apart of either faction otherwise. But as history shows us, Raja Gulab Singh sold out his own people just for his own self-gain. Indeed, in a capitalistic system such as the State, self-gain would be incredibly tempting, and thus would exist in equal measure as it does elsewhere. There's likely plenty of Minmatar who don't give a shit about the tribes either, and just want to pursue their own goals. Millions more will be apolitical, and simply not care, just getting on with their life (Das Boot is a good example).

Amongst all four factions, realpolitik would be rife, where powerplayers will wave the flag of ideology and cause, while secretly having an ulterior motive for material/power gain. I do not think the Amarr and Gallente are the only perpretrators of this, but the Caldari and Minmatar just as much. "We are invading this system to free our Minmatar brethen, the Amarr there will pay the price for their infringements of freedom" = A clan chief being able to wrest control of local resources for himself without having to care about the native populace.

But again, this applies to people in power. Large blocs of everyday individuals may sincerely believe in something with no shadiness behind them, and this is reflected in the society as a whole.

[Saede Riordan]

Yeah, that seems like it'd pretty much be the state of things.

[Milo Caman]

Amongst all four factions, realpolitik would be rife, where powerplayers will wave the flag of ideology and cause, while secretly having an ulterior motive for material/power gain.

This is pretty much how I played the game when ANSH were doing their thing in Intaki last year (Not so much with the most recent one) And it's incredibly fun. Really got people's hackles up at the time as well.

Recent PF stuff (largely the books) have swung EVE away from the shades of black and grey it had before towards characters and factions which are far less likely to hide their motives, IE- Heth/Roden. I even recall during one patch release the Serpentis came forward and provided aid to folks at Seyllin (Although from our perspective it was very obviously a PR thing).

Can't say I've seen any of this subtlety from the factions since though =|

[Lithium Flower]

Well, todays peoples actually hasn't changed much since the time of pharaohs, we have the same desires, habits and ambitions, these what you called 'universals to human nature'. But I don't think that calling all factions 'a-holes' is a good idea, simply because Machiavellian stereotype is one of many. Each faction as a whole has its own world view, its own values and standards of behavior, and moreover, each of person of these factions have its own world view too, that is loosely based on its faction's world view.

Regarding the war for 'ideology and cause', I prefer staying it in Caldari way, who clearly display desire for material and power gain, their war started, because they came to take back what they believe is rightfully theirs. However, unlike Minmatar chief, who could be able to wrest control of local resources, Caldari society is put under strict control after Heth's reforms, and such Caldari commander, who would use resources for self interest instead of interest of the State, will be quite fast dismissed, or even executed.

You may call it 'forcing not being an a-hole' 

[Ava Starfire]

There is indeed internal strife; Ava has adopted the stance that Shakor is acting in (his percieved) the best interests of himself and the Brutor Tribe, and that the coup against Midular was just the most recent in many assaults on the Sebiestor from the other tribes.

Make no mistake, Ava's primary motivator is "freedom for her kin"... and a close second is personal glory and with it, possibly political opportunity. It IS motivated by the desire (however far fetched it may be) to seek a peaceful conclusion, but of course, it is what she perceives as *best*.

I see this sort of infighting being especially common among the internal factions of the Minmatar and Amarr, to be honest. Clan vs Clan or House vs House, all the leaders are reading The Prince and taking notes.

[lallara zhuul]

The cultural indoctrination of each faction is different.

But they all serve the same purpose.

To keep the powerful in power and keep the population quiet.

In Rome it was bread and circus entertainment for the masses.

I do not think it has changed that much in New Eden.

The infighting within the factions is part of the same mechanism as well.

Keep the upper middle class busy fighting among themselves while the real elite keeps the big wheels turning.

[Ava Starfire]

The cultural indoctrination of each faction is different.

But they all serve the same purpose.

To keep the powerful in power and keep the population quiet.

In Rome it was bread and circus entertainment for the masses.

I do not think it has changed that much in New Eden.

The infighting within the factions is part of the same mechanism as well.

Keep the upper middle class busy fighting among themselves while the real elite keeps the big wheels turning.

Um, the "real elite" would be exactly those Clan and House leaders.

[Laerise [PIE]]

No Ava, the "real elite" is usually also called "the man". If you keep in mind that the man is "keeping us down" then lallaras post starts making a lot more sense 

Edit: Or to put it more plainly: Lall' is playing up the cyber-punk connotations in eve, while Seriphyn is putting eve into another context. Both are not mutually exclusive unless presented in the way by both of them.

[Gesakaarin]

Why wouldn't the State be exempt from the practice of realpolitik? It's fundamentally how the entire system works there, each Mega is essentially in it out of self-interest and working together only occurs in situations of mutual advantage with checks-and-balances such as the CEP/CBT implemented to ensure that Megacorporate "competition" through corporate espionage and sabotage through deniable assets doesn't cause PMC sabre rattling to escalate into actual shooting matches like what happened with Lai Dai/SuVee.

Caldari State unity seems to be directed outwards against foreign threats and competition but the Megas and their management are still more than glad to politick and stab each other in the back for their own advantage. Patriotism and nationalism are just other tools in the arsenal to keep people focused on anything else but what's occurring in the boardrooms and being discussed over smoke and brandy by management and executives.

Does that make Caldari Megas and their leaders assholes? Maybe. Personally, I just think Caldari leaders are extremely pragmatic and aren't easily swayed by modern notions of morality and compassion in protecting and advancing their interests when the price of failure in the State for those on high is either shame and disgrace if they're let off easy or their own death and the potential destruction/takeover of their corporation.

Then there's also the concept of "Face" with the Caldari - sometimes you're expected to say certain things and act in a certain manner not because you may agree with it but because not to do so would bring, "Shame and Dishonour" or rather make yourself an easy nail to get hammered in by others. I think that's what makes the Caldari and the State interesting because taking things at face value is an easy way to get manipulated and eventually shafted.

That, or maybe I'm just seeing the State from the SuVee point of view too much or something.

Yes, carry on citizen nothing to see here. Your State leaders and executives are supreme altruists guided by the principles of absolute compassion and largesse in making your lives better, your days more profitable and your future brighter for they are instilled with the virtues of patriotism and a love of kittens and small children as together we march onwards to a new tomorrow for the State.

[Lithium Flower]

I do not think it has changed that much in New Eden.

The infighting within the factions is part of the same mechanism as well.

Keep the upper middle class busy fighting among themselves while the real elite keeps the big wheels turning.

I think this is mostly defines State politic, where top management guides everyone to targeted direction, still allowing lower levels to fight among themselves.
From Caldari point of view, these internal fighting bring more competency, train peoples to become better in their area, and employ general principles of Darwinism. Weak ones got booted, strong ones become stronger, in the end everything for the State as a whole developed might faster. And these on the top, or how you called them, "real elite" keep these fightings at adequate level, so they won't hurt the State.