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[Z.Sinraali]

So did the Cartel, for example, take over curse by corrupting every single planetary government in the area? This seems more likely than them building the governments/infrastructure from scratch.

I thought the relevant PF was that they found Jove toys and conquered all the other poor bastards in the area. (Can't get onto Evelopedia at the moment, sadfaec.)

[Victoria Stecker]

I thought the relevant PF was that they found Jove toys and conquered all the other poor bastards in the area. (Can't get onto Evelopedia at the moment, sadfaec.)

So this would imply that there were people there to conquer - again, that they came in and took over rather tahn building from the ground up. Makes sense, even if it feels a little more hand-wavey. None of that slow corruption thing, we'll just :jovian: it and call it a day.

[Louella Dougans]

Feythabolis region mentions how they were a reasonably advanced culture, or group of cultures, that had developed their own spacecraft and so on.

Then the Angel Cartel enslaved all of them, and utterly destroyed all that there was of their culture.

"The human diaspora throughout the systems of New Eden was quite widespread prior to the collapse of the EVE Gate. In many areas, cultures cut off from other civilizations thrived in isolation. One of these regions was Feythabolis, a relatively small empire of progressive thinkers and egalitarian political philosophers. Unfortunately, this state lagged behind other empires significantly in technological advancement, having only recently started to colonize the local space just as the ruthless Angel Cartel was moving in to establish their control. Completely outclassed by the military forces of the Cartel, the fledgling empire was defeated with ease and its entire population bent to the will of the Angels." Region Description.

Which means the Cartel are worse than the Amarr Empire. A fact that many conveniently overlook.

[Casiella]

Curious: I can see how that could make the Cartel morally equal to the Empire, but worse in what way?

[Louella Dougans]

Curious: I can see how that could make the Cartel morally equal to the Empire, but worse in what way?

The Minmatar were never entirely conquered, their culture survived. Feythabolians, not so much.

The Empire did what it did, for the Minmatar's own good. The Cartel do not have any similar motivation, it was for the Cartel's good.

[Casiella]

But what about all the other cultures before the Minmatar?

[Gymir Asaadan]

And how about including they did what they did for the Minmatar's perceived good, not their actual 'good' just that the Amarr perceived it to be for their good. Actually it was for the good of the Amarr empire and their drive to attempt to subjugate and enslave and force their culture on anyone they encountered, not just the Minmatar.

Only the Minnies manage to hold on to some of their identity through the struggle, as did some of the Khanid, though the Khanid religion was replaced with the Amarr religion.

So I guess that makes the Angels just better at subjugating than the Amarr. It's already well known that the Angels are slavers and in all kinds of nasty stuff. Not sure what you mean by "many people overlook"

[Casiella]

The Udorians say "hi".

[Victoria Stecker]

Feythabolis region mentions how they were a reasonably advanced culture, or group of cultures, that had developed their own spacecraft and so on.

Then the Angel Cartel enslaved all of them, and utterly destroyed all that there was of their culture.

"The human diaspora throughout the systems of New Eden was quite widespread prior to the collapse of the EVE Gate. In many areas, cultures cut off from other civilizations thrived in isolation. One of these regions was Feythabolis, a relatively small empire of progressive thinkers and egalitarian political philosophers. Unfortunately, this state lagged behind other empires significantly in technological advancement, having only recently started to colonize the local space just as the ruthless Angel Cartel was moving in to establish their control. Completely outclassed by the military forces of the Cartel, the fledgling empire was defeated with ease and its entire population bent to the will of the Angels." Region Description.

Which means the Cartel are worse than the Amarr Empire. A fact that many conveniently overlook.

Odd. I read that as a military defeat, 'bent to the will of the angels' hardly reads as "enslaved and destoyed all of their culture." While they probably aren't encouraging their previous egalitarian thinking, it seems like it would be a "do what we tell you and we won't bomb you from orbit" situation, perhaps using the locals to build ships/weapons/whatever else the cartel needs. Maybe the planetary climates are well suited to growing cash crops, boosters and drugs and such.

I really don't see any reason to think that the angels did more than beat them up militarily and demand that they do whatever. Completely eradicating a culture seems like a lot of work with no payoff for the cartel.

[Lyn Farel]

Good, right, wrong...

To me this last page of discussion mostly sounds like to me that everyone is more interested to defend his own meat with biased views. For a moment I thought you were speaking ICly.

[Casiella]

Lyn, some folks may sound that way, though some of us don't have any factions to defend.

[Morwen Lagann]

Lyn, some folks may sound that way, though some of us don't have any factions to defend.

No faction, best faction.

For varying contexts of the phrase "no faction".

[Louella Dougans]

Not sure what you mean by "many people overlook"

eh, tendency among RPers to go "i'm an angel cartel associate now" and then later expect people not to criticise things, and say "oh the angels aren't bad".


vOv

[Casiella]

Louella, to be fair, I've noticed a tendency among many factional RPers to start to absorb the outlook of their characters' factions. That doesn't just hold true for the Cartel but also for many who are attached in some way to the four core nations, for example.

[Gessenier]

Roden and Blaque are probably with varying degrees of success turning the Federation into a corporate-military police state with Jacus Roden as Generalissimo.

Most CEO's of State Megas for all intents and purposes might as well be the ruling dictators of their corporate fiefs and they have the private armies to enforce their will over their employees.

Darius Shakor as San Matar is in many respects acting as a military dictator over the tribes and the Republic.

Empress Jamyl Sarum in terms of the power she wields over the Empire could also be described as a military dictator.

I fail to see why only the pirate factions would fall under the concept of being a military dictatorship when it seems like a pretty popular governing model in New Eden. Or is it just me?