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[Seriphyn]

It's been brought up numerous times before, how the pirate factions are more than just pirates, since they also control a region of space. But I was thinking of an analogy to better illustrate/illuminate the topic, going with references from The Burning Life.

Let's take the Angel Cartel, which controls Curse. From in-game visuals only, there is only one "developed" world in Curse, which is Utopia III. From TBL, we get an insight into what life is like in these regions. From the sounds of it, their levels of development are frontier/colonial, as you would expect from nullsec. Pirate faction missions also mention a "Tribute" system, which is used to keep these territories down and undeveloped in return for protection. They're not permitted weapons or some such, so they're not a threat to the Cartel/whoever.

It effectively sounds like an oligarchy/junta. If you're connected to the 'establishment' (Cartel, Guristas, Serpentis etc.), you're made. Otherwise, you just live in some frontier/undeveloped settlement under the aegis/iron fist of the pirate faction. The oligarchy has no interest in developing a formal system of government, an administration, a bureaucracy, or whatever, nor is it interested in developing an economy or infrastructure. It is only interested in expanding its own power and influence for the benefit of those within the oligarchy, and cares little for those outside of it within their territory (unless you choose to sign up). You can probably live a long life in these pirate regions, but I'd expect living standards worse than those in the empires, and very isolated lives with little opportunity for space travel. Those apart of the Angel Cartel probably have their main residences on Utopia III, along with their families, and so forth. Probably a planet-wide Omega sort of place.

You can probably live much more freely than anywhere in the empires, with no bureaucracy or government footprint. However, without a legal system or social contract of any kind, nothing's stopping the owners from coming down and messing with you, maybe dragging you up into space as a crewman. If you're a pretty woman, you might end up a slave for a warlord, or some such.

A pseudo-anarchy of some sorts. Perhaps like Somalia. It's an area of space where people live, no formal government or economy or anything of the sort, but a powerful group of warlords that keep things relatively stable. Just don't mess with them, and lock your doors when they come down for their tribute.

An idea I had, figured I'd throw it out there. NPC nullsec as the "third world" of EVE (excl. Sansha's Nation).

[Nmaro Makari]

Depends which pirates. I would have thought the Angels and the Serpentis to be more mafia-esque in their ways and the Guristas to be more ragtag like the traditional idea of pirates. I mean. like the time the Angels tried to muscle a system away from the republic or how the serps were actually created. The Guristas seem to be more rogueish from their founding. But then this isn't really that pf based so could be completely wrong.

tl;dr Angels & Serps = The Godfather, Guristas = Pirates of the Carribean.

[Seriphyn]

Oh yeah, I more meant how they governed their regions (Curse, Venal, etc.), and the people that live in them.

[Yoshito Sanders]

Blood Raiders and Sansha's would probably be far more regimented. Sansha, naturally, as this mass of semi-sentient True Slaves supporting a small number of elite True Citizens. The Blood Raiders are almost surely more structured as a massive cult than, say, the Angel Cartel is as a government. The Blood Raiders, I imagine, are a bit like a miniature Empire, and since they only control a single constellation as opposed to an entire region, their numbers are likely much easier to control.

[Aria Jenneth]

I haven't looked too closely at any canon on the subject other than the Angels, so I'll just focus on Curse for now.

What I think of as "third world" is someplace that is dysfunctional on virtually every level: socially, politically, technologically, economically, and on and on. Each dysfunction feeds the others: roads only get fixed in election years; a nominally national ruler rules primarily to profit his own tribe; corruption drains infrastructure projects; without infrastructure, the economy's development is crippled.

If you think the U.S. is part of the third world (as some metrics admittedly suggest), I invite you to go spend a couple weeks observing at a district court in rural Uganda.

That's not Curse, not even if you throw in a ruthless dictator. The Angel Cartel is tightly-organized, well-staffed, technologically advanced, and "corrupt" only in the sense that it foments corruption in other cultures as a means to its own profit. It builds fleets for other powers. There's nothing internally dysfunctional about it unless you get around to talking about ethics. It is essentially a criminal gang that became the government of its region.

An accurate image is probably if the Zetas found a cache of ancient tech and used it to conquer Mexico, then set about ensuring their continued political, military, economic, and technological dominance with their customary ruthless(ness and) efficiency.

This is less "third world" and more "barbarian power." These guys don't play by the same rules as the civilized big four; they're less acculturated, feeling little loyalty to outsiders and intense loyalty to their own.

The people, in this setup, exist to serve their rulers. Civilians are a resource to be tended or exploited as the situation warrants. Conscripts should feel honored to be inducted-- and will; they just need a little seasoning to get the right esprit de corps. It doesn't matter whether the people want to be ruled so long as they submit.

This differs from the big four primarily in that there's no higher principle to be found-- no Kingdom of God, no traditional "way of life" as per the Caldari or Minmatar, no list of self-evident rights and liberties-- just an order of tritanium-clad might-making-right in which loyalty is valued primarily in that it reduces the level of threat, and chaos lurks just the other side of the next disobeyed order.

In time, it might mellow into something a little less harsh. For now, it's the mafia crossed with the Mongol hordes, complete with horsebowmen.

[Yoshito Sanders]

As usual, Aria is pretty spot on with how I think the Angel Cartel is presented in-game.

[Syylara/Yaansu]

I tend to see these factions as "violent non-state actors" meaning they control some significant territorial control, administer some form of governmental services and fund their operations largely through criminal activity.

Each of them have their own particular twists, however.

Guristas remind me of the FARC in Colombia, minus the politics perhaps.

Serpentis is the Zetas in reverse, starting as legitimate business and getting into criminal activity rather than criminals using businesses as fronts.

Angels are "the Mafia" in general, dabbling in all kinds of illegal activity while also providing muscle or smuggling to other criminal (or even legitimate) groups.

The Intaki Syndicate is pre-Castro Cuba, known for both its high-roller tourism and as a black market clearing house.

Blood Raiders might be akin to a Haitian voodoo cult (a-la pop culture at least with the crazy blood rituals and what-not) or other Caribbean "witchcraft."

Sansha's I'd have compared to something along the lines of the Heaven's Gate cult originally, but obviously that might be a quite understated comparison, nowadays.

Obviously some of these are quite imperfect (especially Blood Raiders and Sansha's, which are quite "out there" as far as sustainable widespread cohesion goes).

[Aria Jenneth]

Angels are "the Mafia" in general, dabbling in all kinds of illegal activity while also providing muscle or smuggling to other criminal (or even legitimate) groups.

My main difference with this is that I have difficulty connecting the words "gigantic Mafia battleship" in my head. Or, "Mafia shipyard." Or, "Mafia military parade." Just fuggeddaboudit. They're too solidly united to even strike me as vaguely Italian (Italy has a long, long history of raising regional factionalism to a fine art).

Inside the other empires, though, I agree that it works-- if you cross the business aspect with a certain quantity of "infiltration of underworld by hostile foreign power."

[Seriphyn]

Aria - yeah, I think me using the term "third world" was a bit inaccurate. "Barbarian power" is more appropiate. I like your approach.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'll throw out the counter point for devil's advocacy:

When you get down to it I don't think many of the 'pirate' factions operate in a "significantly" different manor than any of the 'big four.' They just have less territory.

The corruption might be more up front or the rituals a little more raw, but the only difference between a warlord and a dictator and am emperor is probably how many people they have under their thumb

[Casiella]

Also: "third world" has a particular definition that applies particularly well here. IRL, it (originally) meant nations not explicitly aligned with US/NATO or USSR/Warsaw Pact. Now, of course, we usually mean "developing nations" when we say that, and particularly the areas of the world that significantly lag in many indicators of development.

In that first sense, though, nations that do not explicitly support the Amarr/Caldari or Gallente/Minmatar axes certainly do strike me as "third world". Whether or not they are dictatorships means something else entirely, of course. For example, whatever else someone might think of the Syndicate, calling them a "dictatorship" would be both inaccurate and imprecise.

[Silas Vitalia]

Right, of course. 

I just mean with the general concept of 'shades of grey' when referring to the big four, is that the 'pirate factions' are in the same vein... just a little more obviously grey

[Casiella]

But are there fifty shades?

EDIT: Okay, I was off-topic. I'll smack myself for that one.

[Lyn Farel]

I'll throw out the counter point for devil's advocacy:

When you get down to it I don't think many of the 'pirate' factions operate in a "significantly" different manor than any of the 'big four.' They just have less territory.

The corruption might be more up front or the rituals a little more raw, but the only difference between a warlord and a dictator and am emperor is probably how many people they have under their thumb

I might disagree. I do not see pirate factions the same way at all. I see them as ruthless with criminal practices, like pragmatic slavery, no morals, piracy, dirty dealings, everything that is morally wrong in any of the other factions. Not that the big four are particularily shiny, but in comparison to me, they are. A cartel remains a cartel, a mafia. Blooders are described as scary space vampires and butchers that haunt empty space and scare the hell out of everyone. Etc.

[Seriphyn]

I think the other key difference between the pirate factions and empire factions (ignoring that the pirate factions, well, pirate) is that they are not nations in the sense that, they have no legal system or social contract. No concept of 'constituents' or 'citizens', other than those who are directly members of the pirate organization.

For example, since all empire factions are basically law-based confederacies in some way or another, while the Fed President could theoritically send troops down to Planet A's cities, that planet and its citizens have rights as per the Federation's laws. They can protest to the Supreme Court or Senate, who both can take action against the President and revoke what he's trying to do. There's also a free media that can summon up a popular storm, and if the President's troopers went so far as to shoot the protestors, there'll be implications across the entire Federation which might split it completely (as what almost happened in the beginning of the Gallente-Caldari War).

Because pirate subjects won't have universal rights or laws, nothing is stopping them from doing what they want. They keep power purely via military means, rather than, say, the Federation keeping power by a democratic political and legal system. In this sense, they are 'dictatorships'. What they say, goes, as Aria pointed out. In the sense they are not dictatorships, is that even a dictatorship suggests there's some concept of nationhood. I think it's more "territory and subjects" to the pirate factions, rather than "nation and citizens".

But yeah, the pirate factions primary purpose is to, well, pirate. The empires are nations, they have lots and lots of other endeavours. Building infrastructure, educating their population, researching civilian technology to better the lives of their citizenry, etc.