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[Kazuma Ry]

Hello all,

I am attempting to pick up the flame of preaching that Archbishop use to do on IGS many moons ago. With that task set ahead of me (and a step task at that), I have written up my first attempt at being a Amarrian Religious Preaching to the heathens. So please if your so kind, read over what I have written, and give me feed back on how I might make it better before I put it up on IGS.
Thank you in advance, Kazuma Ry

"Divine Illumination

Brothers and Sister, Citizens of the Empire, Children of God.

Does following Scriptures tell you that God’s power is to provide whatever we need?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God really cares and loves the truly faithful?
Does following Scriptures tell you that, if God can do that, then there is nothing that God can’t do?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God didn’t stop creating but is still creating today?

Ask yourself these questions, and see what answer your soul gives you.

How often do we witness a miracle and don’t even see it as a miracle? How often does the Hand of God move in our lives and we don’t even see Him at work? How much do we miss because we not looking for it? The Lord still moves in the lives of His people but how often do his people even recognize what He is doing?

The fact is, that unless we are paying attention to what is happening, and unless through pray to open our minds to see what the Lord is doing, then we may not see anything at all. Human beings require a special divine assistance in their ordinary cognitive activities, without God in our heart and minds, we would fail at the tasks set upon us.

For most people today it is hard to take divine illumination seriously, hard to view it as anything other than a quaint relic. To these people, I would question their faith, question their commitment to God, question their commitment to the Empire. The mind needs to be enlightened by light from outside itself, so that it can participate in truth. The Lord will light the lamp within the mind. Give light to the mind. Allows us through devotion and prayer to see his wisdom, his truth.

When I speak the truth, I do not teach someone who sees these truths. For he is taught not by my words but by the things themselves made manifest within when God discloses them

None other than you is teacher of the truth, wherever and from whatever source it is manifest

Lord, light the lamp within the minds. Give them the truth and wisdom that you have bestowed upon those that are faithful to you. Amen"

[Matariki Rain]

To me it reads as a contemporary Protestant sermon, preached against a background of public doubt which I don't think exists in the Empire.

Brothers and Sister,

This "Sister": might she be the famous resident of Providence?

Citizens of the Empire, Children of God.

Does this cut out the people of the Kingdom? The people in the Fed and Republic who follow the Amarrian faith? Actually, who are your audiences, real and ostensible?

Does following Scriptures tell you that God’s power is to provide whatever we need?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God really cares and loves the truly faithful?
Does following Scriptures tell you that, if God can do that, then there is nothing that God can’t do?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God didn’t stop creating but is still creating today?

Actually... as far as I can tell from Amarrian scripture, "No".

Ask yourself these questions, and see what answer your soul gives you.

That someone's been hanging around with Gallente heresies about "love" and "being provided for". Amarrian beliefs are about purity, hardship, conviction, testing, control, judgement and salvation, not about love or provision.

The body of the sermon seems to be about accepting contemporary miracles. Subtext seems to be about accepting Jamyl as an example of god working in mysterious ways. Does anyone within the Empire openly question this? Would you acknowledge their questioning if they did?

Would you really preach that for most people, seeing things as they are (to a god-fearing Amarrian) is a "quaint relic"? Again, is this a sermon to the faithful or to the fallen?

Given the Amarrian commitment to the puzzle game that god provided for them--which is theirs to apply skill and science and investigation to--I find it confusing trying to work out whether this divine illumination is supposed to come from knowledge of the world, from divine grace, or from some sort of internal "that feels right".

To tie into the illumination theme, quote Gheinok the First, 12:32, "By His light, and His will". (Maybe also quote Anoyia... )

Lord, light the lamp within the minds. Give them the truth and wisdom that you have bestowed upon those that are faithful to you. Amen"

I don't don't think the Amarrian god gives things freely. Except tests. And worlds to conquer, but the point there is that you have to go and conquer them.

[Makkal]

The Empire and Kingdom don't so much have 'citizens' as they do 'subjects.'

Remember that in New Eden, the Amarr Empire is the most populous and within its borders, religion is absolute. I wouldn't be surprised if the default attitude was that Holy Amarr was Civilization and the only thing outside of it was a bunch of slaves rolling in the mud, drug addled criminals in a state of continuous anarchy, and a small nation of industrial-minded people. 

[Lyn Farel]

Does following Scriptures tell you that God’s power is to provide whatever we need?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God really cares and loves the truly faithful?
Does following Scriptures tell you that, if God can do that, then there is nothing that God can’t do?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God didn’t stop creating but is still creating today?

Actually... as far as I can tell from Amarrian scripture, "No".

As far as I can tell from Amarrian scripture, "I do not know" is a more correct answer, since we barely have a handful of texts coming from the - almost - entirety of what has been written in Amarrian History. Would we have not written in PF that the Scriptures are a collection of everything related to the Amarr culture and science, I would have agreed, but we at least know that it is huge, thus we lack 99.99(...)9999% of it.

[Matariki Rain]

Does following Scriptures tell you that God’s power is to provide whatever we need?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God really cares and loves the truly faithful?
Does following Scriptures tell you that, if God can do that, then there is nothing that God can’t do?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God didn’t stop creating but is still creating today?

Actually... as far as I can tell from Amarrian scripture, "No".

As far as I can tell from Amarrian scripture, "I do not know" is a more correct answer, since we barely have a handful of texts coming from the - almost - entirety of what has been written in Amarrian History. Would we have not written in PF that the Scriptures are a collection of everything related to the Amarr culture and science, I would have agreed, but we at least know that it is huge, thus we lack 99.99(...)9999% of it.

Hence my choice of wording. What we do have has the flavour of a god of trials and judgement. Which is cool, and makes sense of the Amarrians. Run with that. I don't see any reason to bring a more New Testament sensibility to it.

[Lyn Farel]

Unless I misunderstood something, your choice of wording implies that you assume that the answer to these 4 questions is no ?

Oh of course, I agree with the rest. I do not see that sermon particularily "not very amarrish" but I guess that is because I know close to nothing in bible things... Of course, it could definitly benefit from being more "glorious, fervent, etc etc".

[Makkal]

Since we're talking about the question.

Does following Scriptures tell you that God’s power is to provide whatever we need?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God really cares and loves the truly faithful?
Does following Scriptures tell you that, if God can do that, then there is nothing that God can’t do?
Does following Scriptures tell you that God didn’t stop creating but is still creating today?

1. I'm going to guess that the Amarrian god is omnipotent. God can do whatever he wishes, so he could give someone whatever they need. God doesn't seemed to be inclined to provide for others though.

2. No idea. We do know: "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
I'd like to add that 'tolerance' feels off in that scripture.

3. I don't even understand this question.

4. No idea. However, "God has gone/Left us with fond memories/Of sweet life without pain." Amarrians believe that God has left them. Perhaps forsaking them due to sin. If he's creating, he's not doing it in New Eden.
 

[Kazuma Ry]

Thank you all for the replies so far. After reading your reviews so far, it does appear that I am in need to revise what I have written, to definitely set the tone better. My aim was not the new testament, but more the old testament, since that is primarily Kazuma's view. Granted I am rusty in both RP this view, and writing about it, since in RL, religion is not my strong suit.

Thank you all so far.

[Matariki Rain]

I did a slightly slower skim through Scripture and did find this bit mentioning God'd love. It's not cuddly and accepting, though:

"Chosen, you are first before God.
You are the True and the Faithful.
But in such a state must you hold yourselves high above all.
And constantly prove yourself worthy of Gods Love.
How can such a gift be repaid,
Other than to toil all our days,
In his glorious service,
According to his will,
Serving him always,
Bearing him first in our thoughts,
Always must we strive to show him our worth,
For we are the Chosen, Blessed above all."
- The Scriptures, Anoyia's Exhortation to the Faithful

And thanks for posting this. Mata would never take part in an IGS thread on this sort of thing, and it's been fun being able to make Vaari references and all.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

First, I don't think that the Amarrians think that God left them. Here's the scripture passage:

"When the ears hear only
 The mouth shouting
 And the eyes see only
 The fingers broken
 The world has turned
 And God has gone
 Left us with fond memories
 Of sweet life without pain."
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 8:18

This passage indicates two (or three) things: First that there are conditions to God being absent. These conditions are hinging on human actions and states of mind. Second, it indicates that this is some future event at the end times: the time of Apocalypse. The Amarr don't assume that they live in this time, at all, as the context of other scriptural passages clearly shows. (And thirdly the text seems to indicate that this event will happen: It's not if, but when. Still apocalyptic texts shouldn't be read that literally.)

As to god as Amarr conceives him: It seems to me that he in fact does provide for the world and the humans. He is, not excatly, a god of suffering, toil and hardship per se. It's more like that these things are necessitated by the actions of humans: In the chronicle about that deals with the symbolism of the Amarrian Empire's logo, it is made clear that humanity fell, probably not because God really willed it, but more because of human failings.

The Amarrian religion is all about human failings and how to overcome them. It's not that humanity has to endure hardships because that's God's intention for them, but rather because humanity fails and needs to be stripped of these traits. The more a human strips himself of these negative traits, the more he thus approaches God, the less he suffers. Compare:

"Only through many hardships
 Is a man stripped to his very foundations
 And in such a state
 Devoid of distractions
 Is his soul free to soar
 And in this
 He is closest to God"
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5

"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all;
 When thine heart shines with the Light, thou shalt know no hardship;
 When thine actions are in Light's name, thou art immortal."
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:1

The tone seems to be that God provided humanity with all it needs: It's on humanity to accept and embrace these gifts though, which it regularly fails to do. God punishes those that abuse his gifts on one side, but on the other he's also willing to intervene to lead the best of humankind back on the path of mending the break between the human and the divine sphere.

He#s not nice and cuddly, no, but he's quite the good god and in a way even benevolent.

[Malcolm Khross]

I'm not an authority on Amarrian Scripture (I played a Holder for a while but he was basically two steps away from heresy if you ask PIE), but the basic premise of Amarrian Scripture is political (no, really it is). It focuses on Amarrian supremacy and a god that tests the faith, will, conviction and surety of his subjects.

A conservative viewing of the Amarrian Scriptures would lead a reader to believe they are chosen by their god to "cultivate the spirit of man," basically to guide them into civilization and salvation. They would believe themselves enlightened, far beyond anyone else, and believe that a person of faith should be able to overcome all obstacles by their faith alone. They would not tolerate blasphemy (speaking against God), they would not have an image of a loving, tender god but of a rigorous, righteous, expecting master over their fate and life.

A more moderate or liberal reading of the Amarrian Scripture could be shown to suggest that the cultivation is meant to be less judgmental and more like a shepherd to the sheep, that God is not as harsh and judgmental as many believe, but that he does have expectations of his followers, tests their will, punishes the unfaithful and rewards the faithful.

There's a number of spins you can put on Amarrian Scripture (which is the best part about it in my opinion). The trick is read over it, find a mindset that suits your character and remains "consistent" with the Amarrian Scriptures we have and roll with it. As long as you place the righteousness and will of God first, followed by the will and authority of the Empress, everything else is secondary.

EDIT: Nicoletta makes a very good case and represents basically the way my character saw the Amarrian Scriptures and the Amarrian God.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I'd agree that in a way, the Amarrian scripture is fundamentally political (as is the Tenach, the Bible and the Koran, as well as the Avesta, ancient mesopotamian texts and many others). Still, I don't think that this is the basic premise is political. The basic premises are about the nature of the divine and the conditio humana.

The political massage is, I think, more of a conclusion from those premises, a way to resolve the falling out of unity of humanity with the divine in a positive way, a way towards reunion with the divine.

I really agree, though, with the idea, that there's a number of spins you can put on Amarrian Scripture and that this is about the best part. One shouldn't forget about what we know aside the direct Scripture about the Amarr. Especially the above mentioned chronicle 'Signs of Faith' comes to mind, but also 'The Cult of Tetrimon' and others. I'd think that parts of Amarrian scripture were meant to be read in a certain exegetical tradition which we can't interpolate directly from the scriptures. 'Signs of Faith' for example gives us some ideas about that, I think.

As it stands, even in the case I've made above there's a lot of room for further interpretation. I'm quite sure that the exegesis of Scripture that Nico gives isn't quite the same as the one your Holder was giving.