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Author Topic: Prometheus  (Read 4238 times)

GoGo Yubari

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #15 on: 10 Jun 2012, 14:40 »

[spoiler]One thing I did like was the gruesome body-horror of the Alien removal scene. I'm not usually one for gore and all that shit, but I liked it because it was very much a female scene - which is great, because the Alien franchise has often portrayed female issues in odd ways.

What was that scene about? Pro-choice.

Society wants women to keep their babies (Weyland wants the alien baby as its valuable to them) and from a certain point of view to reduce them to baby making machines (Shaw's own desires were not important to Weyland). Well, Shaw would have none of it. She gets to decide what she does with her own body, so she goes to the surgery machine. BEEP! It tells her that it (and thus the birth control it can provide) is only for men (think about it, fellow reader). Well, she says fuck dat and proceeds regardless.

Of course, in a sense the power of that scene is diluted when it turns out the Alien isn't dead, but has turned into a Cthulhoid creature that saves its mother, but it still doesn't take away the fact that Shaw made a choice about her body for herself.

So yeah, there were some interesting themes in there, like that, but unfortunately it was buried in that other crap and obfuscated by characters acting non-sensically.
[/spoiler]

Edit - to comment on that review.

Yeah, I don't think that commentary was totally off mark, but to me it gives way too much credit to script's telling of that story. The dying-and-rising God themes were pretty obvious to me too, but I think the writer of that commentary was a bit too enthused about finding them in there and consequently lifted it to greater heights of storytelling than is merited.

I think they could've been great if explored in depth, but instead the storytelling seemed focused on.. well, not on anything really of substance. I wonder at which script revision the various themes of the movie were entered and at what point they started to perhaps compete for screen time. It would be interesting to know.
« Last Edit: 10 Jun 2012, 14:57 by GoGo Yubari »
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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #16 on: 10 Jun 2012, 15:09 »

I have just come back from seeing this film.

I liked it. It was by no means perfect but, for all it's faults, is better than most mainstream SF films have been lately.

It's not really worth paying extra for the 3D version though.
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #17 on: 10 Jun 2012, 16:04 »

It's not really worth paying extra for the 3D version though.

I tend to agree, if cost's a concern for you: the 3D was nice, but not necessary. I'd prioritise seeing it somewhere with a good sound system, though, because the liver-quivering subsonics contributed to my enjoyment of it as spectacle. (My "local" is one of the theatres refurbished by the WETA crowd. They care about things like sound quality. It's good.)

I'm enjoying the critical analysis around it. That's where I get to be an active participant interacting with the story-as-told and the other people joining in to generate our own stories about what's going on, and it's turning out to be a lot of fun with this one. Sometimes a flawed work can be better for that than a more complete one, since there's more space for creation and different possibilities.
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kalaratiri

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #18 on: 11 Jun 2012, 07:18 »

Saw it last night, and quite enjoyed it. I can honestly say a film has never before left me quite so simultaneously baffled and disturbed  :P

[spoiler] I fully understand what people meant about the incredible stupidity displayed by several members of the crew. Some of it was almost comic.

Something I discussed with several of my friends was to do with the reason for the Engineers to turn on humanity. We decided that is was possible that the Engineers were worried that humanity could 'usurp' them, or like a child comes into it's inheritance after it's parents die, that humanity would become 'better' than the engineers. The same fear could be said to exist between the human members of the crew and David. David learns faster, is stronger, is much much harder to kill, is more intelligent and more adaptable than humans. Could they be afraid that he is 'better' than they are? [/spoiler]
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #19 on: 11 Jun 2012, 10:10 »

I saw it today. I mostly echo what has been said above.

[spoiler]One of the things where Ridley Scott is great is metaphors. They were plenty and extremely well elaborated in the first Alien (penis shaped aliens, "universal rapes", and a lot of deliberate choices in the screenplay, etc). There is a sequence in Prometheus where Shaws husband comes into her room and starts to speak to her about the engineers and life creation, then while doing so he steps right into the hologram of one of the engineers, and takes exactly his place while he continues to speak. They are plenty of other ones like this.

On the good things the screenplay is great (well, thats Ridley Scott), especially at the beginning before landing on the planet, and the movie looks good (big budgets and all...). Interesting questions and concepts are shown.

On the weird and/or bad things, I may have a lot to say :

- The sheer stupidity of the crew, as said above. Wtf ? Humanity can create pretty accurate and believable human cyber replicas, and they can not even create the simplest robot ? They have to send a whole team of humans direction into that tomb ? Come on, it is not 1969 anymore. NASA sends robots everywhere on the solar system firstly because its less costly, and a lot easier to do, but also, where risks are obivous like that you send automated vehicules. Seriously, they have never heard of probes ? They really had to come into that wreck to drop these little scanning spheres ? They never heard of "security protocols" ? Every second of that movie makes it sound very little believable considering at each moment they just do stupid unsafe things.

- What was the purpose of that movie ? To expand on the Alien universe and lore a little ? Well ok, it brought some interesting concepts, logical explanations and concerns, but didn't it break a little the whole atmosphere and mysticism around the aliens ? These engineers look pitiful, btw. Welcome back to die again, musculous lord Voldemort. But this time, raped in the throat, yarr.

- Plot holes and stretched things. As already stated above several times, I do not have much to add.

- What the heck was that zombie ? That was so alien... to the alien concept that I wondered if it was something related to the aliens. Why the hell does he starts to kill everybody, while everybody is actually walking, living compatible meat for alien reproduction ?

- I hate that obnoxious hollywoodish christian morality. Nobody noticed that all the atheists died when the only survivor were two believers ? Yes two believers, even David believes in creators, except he knows who are his creators and ends up to start to believe in Shaw's ideals. Shaw's husband continuously talks about pragmatic things where he says everyone can create life, they humans are already gods, etc. He dies. The engineers are depicted as gods, but actually only pretending to be. They die. Shaw tells that even if they have found their creators, she still believes in something greater that created them (God ?). I would not have minded if she had not that damn rood around her neck. This is christian. It is an obvious link to religion. Vickers only try to flee when  the captain and the last men of the crew suddenly decide to suicide gank the engineer ship. She dies, the coward she is. Ofc Shaw starts to think to retaliation at the very end and think about a whole genocide, but thats not a big deal heh, since these engineers are not really human ? I may have seen something that isnt really in the movie, but well...

- Edit : also I forgot to add the fact that Ridley Scott pulls the exact same strings on the scripts and the story he used in Alien (ex : the poor dude(s) a little stupid that meet the real alien first and an unfortunate end, the people that comes back infected from the wreck in the ship, the betraying android, etc etc). If you have seen the first Alien, then you have pretty much seen Prometheus. That's a bit a shame imo, he could have invented some new things.


That said, I find it a good movie still, that was still enjoyable.[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2012, 10:21 by Lyn Farel »
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Serendipitous Echo

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #20 on: 20 Jun 2012, 23:20 »

[spoiler]The movie is pretty obviously one more of a long list of anti-transhumanism fiction. I agree wholeheartedly, btw, but yeah...

From the spoilers people have stated, there's pretty much no transhumanist stone left unturned. From what I've seen, the cut content pretty much seals the deal.

Moral of the story; technology is bad, humans are stupid, and only by believing in something greater than ourselves do we truly overcome our limitations.

 :bash:[/spoiler]
I want to see this movie, but I'll probably have to drink quite a bit before, which means I'll be waiting until it's on Blu-Ray. I enjoy all the Alien movies (with the obvious exceptions being Resurrection and AVP2), so seeing a fresh take by the man who started it all is something I want to see. But yeah... I have issues with Lindelof writing the script.  :bash:
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Serendipitous Echo

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #21 on: 20 Jun 2012, 23:35 »

Saw it last night, and quite enjoyed it. I can honestly say a film has never before left me quite so simultaneously baffled and disturbed  :P

[spoiler] I fully understand what people meant about the incredible stupidity displayed by several members of the crew. Some of it was almost comic.

Something I discussed with several of my friends was to do with the reason for the Engineers to turn on humanity. We decided that is was possible that the Engineers were worried that humanity could 'usurp' them, or like a child comes into it's inheritance after it's parents die, that humanity would become 'better' than the engineers. The same fear could be said to exist between the human members of the crew and David. David learns faster, is stronger, is much much harder to kill, is more intelligent and more adaptable than humans. Could they be afraid that he is 'better' than they are? [/spoiler]

My take:

[spoiler]Think Nietzsche. Specifically, take the whole "Transhuman" concept applied to the "Ubermensch".

...

In the words of my favorite ex-EVE dev, "It may not make sense at first".


Meaning, the "alien" is a solution to a problem humanity cannot see... it's own humanity.[/spoiler]
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Seriphyn

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #22 on: 21 Jun 2012, 06:04 »

It was enjoyable to watch. I wouldn't watch it again, nor do I think it was good enough to me personally to warrant a discussion point here.

The religious underpinning was unfortunately quite pedestrian/lowest-common-denominator, though.
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Gottii

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #23 on: 24 Jun 2012, 00:58 »

Hate to be the typical wining fanboy, but I effing hated it.  I wanted them to die.  Very little characterization that made the first two movies so good. 


Just...ugh. 

 :(
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Ciarente

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #24 on: 24 Jun 2012, 04:44 »

That said, I wanted to apply inappropriate physical violence to most of the crew for their extreme and repeated stupidity,

Oh my god yes. 
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kalaratiri

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #25 on: 24 Jun 2012, 10:38 »

I was recently in a lecture where we were discussing creation mythology. This lead to Adam and Eve, and the lecturer put a picture up on the screen of a painting by William Blake.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Something that struck me immediately was the similarity between the engineer at the start of the film, and Blake's depiction of Adam.

I guess as they say, Nothing is original  :D
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #26 on: 24 Jun 2012, 12:46 »

For Kala.

[spoiler]
I'd like to throw an Osiris layer in there: skin tone, build, death and "dismemberment", association with a kind of immortality, and coffin-like containers for body storage.
[/spoiler]
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Makkal

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #27 on: 26 Jun 2012, 15:20 »

I really wanted to like this movie. I didn't.

A few days after, I picked up the original Alien and watched it for the first time. Wow. Does it have interesting themes? Yep. It also has great character building, good pacing, a well done plot based on believable circumstances, and the horror is scary without being icky or gratuitous.

I also have to note that the sets are very well done. Other than a few of the computer screens, the  design is up there with 2001 in still coming off as possible future-tech. One of the reasons I have problems with some older sci-fi movies is that the FX are obviously fake or everything feels like a product of its time.
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Luya Oknor

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #28 on: 26 Jun 2012, 15:58 »

I have always loved the Alien and Predator movies. I went to Prometheus, and enjoyed it. Then a few days the questions popped up in my head while at work.

And then I finally realized by what my dad had said when he said it was "poorly done" and "non-consistent". I think that Scott was suffering from Lucas syndrome, in which case, nobody was telling him his ideas were bad anymore. But that may not be the case. It could be the script writers? It felt like a few scripts mushed together.

Also THAT THING AT THE END didn't feel like it belonged at all. Though, it was fun to see.

I remember going wide-eyed when they [spoiler]opened the helmet[/spoiler].
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Makkal

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Re: Prometheus
« Reply #29 on: 26 Jun 2012, 16:36 »

The script writer was the same guy who wrote for Lost.

Film critic Hulk did the Damon Lindleof Intervention. It's a long article written in HULK SPEAK, but very perceptive about how treating the same theme the same way can do damage to audience engagement in a film.
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