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[Silas Vitalia]

Spinning off from the space-badass thread:

That thread has me really wishing there were more variety of options for in-game badassness, so to speak.  I can't think of a proper gameplay mechanic at the moment, but our RP world would be much richer if the elite traders, business people, and best manufacturers could wield the same 'influence' in game as the better pvpers.

As it stands now in-game wealth can be leveraged to hire mercs, etc, but that's still just an indirect route towards pvp, with limited results.

IE you could  be the best pvper out there but if I don't want to undock you are never going to inconvenience me in the slightest, etc.

I wish there were interesting market mechanics for patents, smuggling, illicit trading, etc. Ways to shut opponents out of the market and severely inconvenience them in a variety of ways, so Mr or Ms. Evil Tycoon can corner the market on x product and force organizations to their bidding, etc. Trade wars that actually mattered. Product scarcity that could actually be exploited.  Finite resources.

Wouldn't it be much, much more interesting RP wise if groups could wield influence and curry favor or ruin other groups by more complicated and interesting ways aside from pvp and corp theft?

[Vendrin]

Hostile corporate takeovers.

[Karmilla Strife]

I've often wished that you could factor standings into market orders.

[lallara zhuul]

It's been the wish of just about every RPer since the game went live.

[orange]

I can't think of a proper gameplay mechanic at the moment, but our RP world would be much richer if the elite traders, business people, and best manufacturers could wield the same 'influence' in game as the better pvpers.

Part of doing this is the execs, traders, and manufacturers making their presence felt.

Noir's CEO said something at FanFest (captured on Youtube) that hit home with me.  He wanted his corporation to be able to focus on PvP.  They didn't have to worry about moon mining, trading, or ratting - they would make ISK via their contracts.

IE you could  be the best pvper out there but if I don't want to undock you are never going to inconvenience me in the slightest, etc.

The best PvPer might not be able to go after the trader/manufacturer.  But another trader can make the traders life hell... maybe not in the hubs, but elsewhere.

Part of the problem is that distances are relatively small.  Moving goods, trading goods does not generally add significant value.  The fact that there is plenty of Tec moons all over the Caldari quarter of the map does not make it cheaper to buy there.  The price of Tec in Delekin (the largest source) is apparently the same as Jita.

[Andreus Ixiris]

Actually, the problem with trading is more inherent to the extremely rigid way in which the market works, which introduces one extremely large difference from real world markets - lack of quality variance. A Megathron made by a newb with Production Efficiency I and Industry I will have much higher production cost and much longer build time than one I make, but both production runs will produce a functionally identical item. If he then chooses to sell this Megathron at a lower price than mine (almost undoubtedly making a loss, but hey, he's a newb), there's no logical reason for people not to buy his Megathron instead of mine, and rightly so - he's selling it for less money and they're getting precisely the same product. Every Megathron is created not only equal but identical. Any random Megathron on the market is functionally and literally indistinguishable from any other random Megathron on the market. There's no difference in colour scheme, component performance, material sourcing, manufacturing standards, ethical standards, testing standards.

There's not even a way to work out who you're buying from before you buy, which is something I think a lot of roleplayers would have at least minor concerns about - say I was doing guerilla warfare in Amarrian space. Even if I desperately needed a resupply, I certainly wouldn't want to buy any products off slavers or Amarrian loyalists, and likewise, they probably wouldn't be seen dead with a product if they knew Mixed Metaphor had made it.

All of this represents a massive missed opportunity for the market in general. Call me unrealistic if you'd like, but what I'd really like to see is a system whereby a manufacturer can alter the manufacturing process of his ships so as to make them more unique - lowering production standards to produce units at low cost and higher speed, but of poorer quality, or raising them to produce more expensive, higher-quality units. Manufacturers would, for a relatively low price, also be able to brand their ships with their own colour schemes and logos, clearly distinguishing brands and corporations. The market should let you see who you're purchasing from before you buy (or alternatively, for fulfilling open buy orders, who you're selling to).

I think this'd stimulate the manufacturing sector, and get amusing brand-loyalty arguments going.

[Lucius Vindictus]

Andreus just described my dream for the EVE economy!

When I browse my market screen looking for ships I don't want to see hundreds of generic and identical copies. I want to see:

"The Ixiris Pattern Megathron" versus "The Vindictus Standard Megathron" where stats would be influenced by workmanship skills and/or materials and production processes used to manufacture them. Even better if they would have different color schemes options, and that inferior versions physically look rustier and have lowered stats (but on the other hands more expendable and easier to afford).

[orange]

I am separating your post to address what I think are separate concepts and worthy of separate answers.

1 - Individual/Corporate Products
2 - Product Saler Identification

There's not even a way to work out who you're buying from before you buy, which is something I think a lot of roleplayers would have at least minor concerns about - say I was doing guerilla warfare in Amarrian space. Even if I desperately needed a resupply, I certainly wouldn't want to buy any products off slavers or Amarrian loyalists, and likewise, they probably wouldn't be seen dead with a product if they knew Mixed Metaphor had made it.
...
 The market should let you see who you're purchasing from before you buy (or alternatively, for fulfilling open buy orders, who you're selling to).

I think this one is the easiest to implement since the data is already there.  When someone post an order, it is tied to their name/wallet or to their corporation/wallet.  Displaying the corporation and associated standings would be useful to a buyer.  In addition, it would be nice for a seller to set a "fee rate" on selling to people based on standings.

I think this could add a lot to the market in terms of interaction and encourage trade-alliances to form as well as military alliances. Also, I do not see any big obstacles, no huge extra server load (an added calculation when you select your buyer alongside the 2 existing taxes), and it adds to the game.

Good idea!  Maybe we should flesh it out and put it forward on the Eve Forums somewhere.

Actually, the problem with trading is more inherent to the extremely rigid way in which the market works, which introduces one extremely large difference from real world markets - lack of quality variance. A Megathron made by a newb with Production Efficiency I and Industry I will have much higher production cost and much longer build time than one I make, but both production runs will produce a functionally identical item. If he then chooses to sell this Megathron at a lower price than mine (almost undoubtedly making a loss, but hey, he's a newb), there's no logical reason for people not to buy his Megathron instead of mine, and rightly so - he's selling it for less money and they're getting precisely the same product. Every Megathron is created not only equal but identical. Any random Megathron on the market is functionally and literally indistinguishable from any other random Megathron on the market. There's no difference in colour scheme, component performance, material sourcing, manufacturing standards, ethical standards, testing standards.

...

All of this represents a massive missed opportunity for the market in general. Call me unrealistic if you'd like, but what I'd really like to see is a system whereby a manufacturer can alter the manufacturing process of his ships so as to make them more unique - lowering production standards to produce units at low cost and higher speed, but of poorer quality, or raising them to produce more expensive, higher-quality units. Manufacturers would, for a relatively low price, also be able to brand their ships with their own colour schemes and logos, clearly distinguishing brands and corporations.

I think this is a little harder to implement and already exist a little, but with less definition/gradation.

I am going to take a "simple" example - the Merlin.

The Merlin has 4 variants with 2 different sets skills needed to build it (T1 & T2).  A T1 manufacturer who wants to build a "better" Merlin, would build a Worm.  Another way to build a "better" Merlin is to learn the skills needed to build the Hawk/Harpy.  This is clearly not what is desired, since you would like to see more variety.

Perhaps Meta levels is the direction to go?  (Ships don't have meta-levels, so that example breaks down)

Based on your skills and requiring more material as well?

Now, this is not as special as color schemes or logos on items (ships), but it does provide a manufacturer with some variety, building on the existing database.  It seems like a way to "update" manufacturing a bit in a future expansion (which hopefully will focus on giving us more functionality on the industry/market side as a whole).

For ships, I am not as sure what could be done, short of providing a few implant/rig-like bonuses based on the manufacturers inputs and having them be fairly limited.

Thoughts?

[Misan]

For the quality problem I'm not sure I see a good way to approach it given the way EVE is structured and balanced. Feels like it would require a fundamental change in the way industry is done (both resource gathering and manufacture). The best comparison I have of a game that I know that did player markets well with individuality, quality variance, and "corporate shops" was SWG (RIP).

I'll try to keep it fairly short, but there were a couple fundamental elements that made it work. Resource qualities were randomized, which meant that people had to explore to find the "optimal" type for a given craft (and the best attributes varied between trades). On top of that crafters had the ability to experiment on any crafted product to improve some attributes, doubling the benefit of high quality materials. Player crafted goods could be named too, which gave the opportunity for advertisement and name recognition. God, now I miss SWG again. 

The first and last points are things I find that would be hard or near impossible to implement in EVE given current constraints. Maybe some form of experimentation (boosts/drawbacks) or something of that sort is feasible, but I'm left to wonder how that could be managed without making ship balancing an even more difficult process.

I do want to see something like #1 though. I also have a (naturally) particular interest in doing things with black markets and other stuff of that sort. But right now I'm not exactly sure how to go about that because I haven't sat down to think it through.

[Gorion]

If something like this was to have happen it would have had to have been from the get go. It would radically change the way people could interact in empire if their standings affected where they could shop and dock.

[Morwen Lagann]

I wish there were interesting market mechanics for patents, smuggling, illicit trading, etc. Ways to shut opponents out of the market and severely inconvenience them in a variety of ways, so Mr or Ms. Evil Tycoon can corner the market on x product and force organizations to their bidding, etc.

I'm surprised nobody caught this and pointed out that we already have this in a fashion, with T2 BPOs. :S

[Matariki Rain]

I wish there were interesting market mechanics for patents, smuggling, illicit trading, etc. Ways to shut opponents out of the market and severely inconvenience them in a variety of ways, so Mr or Ms. Evil Tycoon can corner the market on x product and force organizations to their bidding, etc.

I'm surprised nobody caught this and pointed out that we already have this in a fashion, with T2 BPOs. :S

That and the range of wonderful ways you can (apparently) manipulate the markets in EVE. It's a cut-throat part of EVE gameplay, and it has its stars just as combat does.

Weird observation: I know that gameplay combat isn't good practice for real life, but I have to remind myself consciously that some things that are expected parts of in-game market play could warrant a conviction IRL. Interesting to observe that in myself.

[Silas Vitalia]

I think I meant perhaps more serious monopolies; as in it's never, ever been difficult to purchase any T2 products.  There are no weapons or items in game that are impossible to come-by due to political reasons or because of manufacturing cabals.  Everything is available to everyone everywhere at generally stable prices. Forever.

I would love some 'temporary' market abilities. Sabatoge, supply shortages, etc.

How awesome would it be for us RP nerds if say some Caldari industrial espionage agents managed to infiltrate a major Galente industrial corp and sabotage one of the production lines for Dominix componants, causing a massive shortage on the FW front lines and swinging the balance for a few weeks?

We would chew up those types of scenario with great eagerness!

[Andreus Ixiris]

I think I meant perhaps more serious monopolies; as in it's never, ever been difficult to purchase any T2 products.  There are no weapons or items in game that are impossible to come-by due to political reasons or because of manufacturing cabals.  Everything is available to everyone everywhere at generally stable prices. Forever.

I would love some 'temporary' market abilities. Sabatoge, supply shortages, etc.

That's what Goonswarm have been trying to do for the past few weeks with their Gallente ice mining interdiction and then their Gallente/Caldari general mining interdiction. They managed to drive the price of oxygen isotopes way, way up, but it didn't quite have the apocalyptic knock-on effects on the general market that they predicted it would. You may be right - the market may just be too stable for such things to work. I'm convinced it would be interesting if it wasn't - I'm not, however, convinced it would be fun for the vast majority of players (remember that, regretably, the vast majority of players don't roleplay). That's who CCP has to think about when they consider something that will drastically affect market stability.

How awesome would it be for us RP nerds if say some Caldari industrial espionage agents managed to infiltrate a major Galente industrial corp and sabotage one of the production lines for Dominix componants, causing a massive shortage on the FW front lines and swinging the balance for a few weeks?

We would chew up those types of scenario with great eagerness!

An interesting concept, but it would only be fair if such things could then happen to the Caldari or the Amarr in return.

[Merdaneth]

How awesome would it be for us RP nerds if say some Caldari industrial espionage agents managed to infiltrate a major Galente industrial corp and sabotage one of the production lines for Dominix componants, causing a massive shortage on the FW front lines and swinging the balance for a few weeks?

We would chew up those types of scenario with great eagerness!

I think this is called Corp Theft. An infiltrator cancelling industry jobs and stealing everything that isn't bolted down.