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[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Or as close to it as you are likely to see.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

Granted done on a purely economic basis rather than for religious reasons.

[BloodBird]

Or as close to it as you are likely to see.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

Granted done on a purely economic basis rather than for religious reasons.

I added the bold to your statement. I don't even need to check the link to tell you this; your reffering to modern-day 'angel cartel' tendencies, not Amarrian. The whole 'we do this due to God's will' part of the Amarrian Empire is a very, VERY important one, after all. Strip that down, and you get an aspect of another faction all-together.

Now ofc, to what extent your average imperial holder follows his pre-sett stated goal and how many of them are, say, 'legit' is another discussion for another place entierly.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

I added the bold to your statement. I don't even need to check the link to tell you this; your reffering to modern-day 'angel cartel' tendencies, not Amarrian. The whole 'we do this due to God's will' part of the Amarrian Empire is a very, VERY important one, after all. Strip that down, and you get an aspect of another faction all-together.

Now ofc, to what extent your average imperial holder follows his pre-sett stated goal and how many of them are, say, 'legit' is another discussion for another place entierly.

Good point, well made.

Definitely slavery however you cut it though.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Reminds me much more of a fake Nation utopia where everything looks perfect on the surface, Its people brainwashed into thinking its perfect while the servants slave away. Some pretty terrible stuff going on over there, rather scary.

[Mizhara]

I finally sat down and read the article. It's indeed one of the ugliest, nastiest and frightening places in the world. Not so much for the suffering that does go on there, but because it's so very visible and yet it's overlooked because of how much better that makes it for those who do not suffer.

It's not unique. It's not new or even all that different from the US, Britain, France, Norway or wherever else. It's just concentrated in Dubai. In Dubai you get the entire spectrum in one place, while in the other mentioned countries it's an international spectrum. The products we buy, the services we use... at some point in the long chain from raw resources to our enjoyment of it, there's some form of slavery, suffering and even loss of life. Dubai just makes it that much more visible and concentrated.

And frightening, since it just shows how little most of us would care or how easily we'd force ourselves to overlook it if we were reaping the benefits.

The real bitch of it is... nothing's going to happen. Slavery is at it's highest point in human history and no matter how many articles are written or consciousness of these troubling facts are spread... no one's going to do anything. There's not a single person on these forums that'll actually try to do something about this. Do you think anyone reading the Independant will do anything about it?

Fuck this world, seriously. Every time I get my hopes up after seeing some feel-good story somewhere, I read something like this. I for one fucking welcome the apocalypse. It's time to wipe out humanity and let the cockroaches grow brains in a few million years. They can't fuck it up much worse than we have.

[Techie Kanenald]

Miz.....

http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

I will ******* buy you a subscription to this site if it will get you to cut the crap you've spouted on multiple threads now.

For the rest of you, an interesting site that showcases a lot of articles major news only use as a tidbit.

[Mizhara]

I'm sorry, my rainbows and unicorn fart vomiting quota gets spent on My Little Pony gushing. Once the season is over, there may be some left for pretending these things don't happen.

[Ulphus]

This thread reminds me of an Ursula K Leguin short story. It's only a few pages long.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/dunnweb/rprnts.omelas.pdf

[Mizhara]

This thread reminds me of an Ursula K Leguin short story. It's only a few pages long.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/dunnweb/rprnts.omelas.pdf

Never heard of her but whoever she is, she's a wordsmith of note and a woman who's imagination is beyond that of us mere wordwranglers.

[Matariki Rain]

Miz, if you haven't yet encountered Ursula K. Le Guin you have some discovery ahead of you. She's one of the most thoughtful and ethnographically-informed SFF writers of the late 20th century.

Anyone playing a space anarchist who hasn't read The Dispossessed, for instance, is missing a nuanced and very human view of a functioning anarchist society.

[Mizhara]

Miz, if you haven't yet encountered Ursula K. Le Guin you have some discovery ahead of you. She's one of the most thoughtful and ethnographically-informed SFF writers of the late 20th century.

Anyone playing a space anarchist who hasn't read The Dispossessed, for instance, is missing a nuanced and very human view of a functioning anarchist society.

Well, I'm not playing a space anything at this point but thanks for the recommendation. I'll see if I can't find some e-books by her. If she's managed to portray a functioning anarchist society, it's good fiction indeed.

[Gottii]

This thread reminds me of an Ursula K Leguin short story. It's only a few pages long.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/dunnweb/rprnts.omelas.pdf

Love this story.  I try to read it about once a year.

[Jade Constantine]

Miz, if you haven't yet encountered Ursula K. Le Guin you have some discovery ahead of you. She's one of the most thoughtful and ethnographically-informed SFF writers of the late 20th century.

Anyone playing a space anarchist who hasn't read The Dispossessed, for instance, is missing a nuanced and very human view of a functioning anarchist society.

Well, I'm not playing a space anything at this point but thanks for the recommendation. I'll see if I can't find some e-books by her. If she's managed to portray a functioning anarchist society, it's good fiction indeed.

It is a lovely story and amongst the three main literary sources I feel make up the basis of Jade's worldview/ideology. (others being the Star Fraction (though Stone Canal and Cassini Division are arguably even closer) and Gradisil which is close to perfect to describing the roots of the freespace movement as I see it.

@Mizhara - it *is* a functioning anarchist society but its not a society delivered from scarcity or regressive human nature in a number of important aspects.

[Andreus Ixiris]

Actually, given that Dubai - as is commented on by people in that article - is incredibly moderate for a Muslim city-state (and in fact, they stringently censor fundamentalists the same way they censor criticism of the city) large parts of this article read like a description of the worst excesses of a Caldari megacorporation. Ugly as hell whatever way you slice it, though.

[Aria Jenneth]

Miz--

It comes to this: fundamentally, we're still animals. We tell ourselves that we can extend our moral sensibilities beyond our little tribal groups, and, to a limited extent, we're successful. We base societies-- civilizations!-- on the idea that we can and should live together without being complete shits to one another.

Inevitably, this is to some degree wishful thinking, and to some degree a lie. It's true almost, but not quite, to the extent that we manage to honestly persuade ourselves of its truth.

But in the end, we are still built for small villages and family groups, and can, will, and do edit anyone outside of that circle out of the zone where conscience applies, leaving hardly a ripple.

It is pointless to blame humanity for not meeting the ideals it sets itself. It remains a species of overly clever, murderous tribal apes trying to be something more civilized. Only in our very best moments do we seem to come close to success.

Maybe we'll be more than that some day. Maybe. I'm not holding my breath.

Aside from LeGuin, I also recommend Vonnegut for his nuanced thoughts on our tragicomic species. Deadeye Dick for the human "comedy" of errors, Slaughterhouse 5 for thoughts on human life, death, and morality, and the weight of each in the face of the horrors we inflict on ourselves and each other (Pooteeweet?), and Galapagos for a sadly hilarious take on our place in the world, the source of our miseries, and a possible, er, solution.

I think that, aside from finding at least one human being I decided was entirely worthwhile, cancer on the planet or no, it was Vonnegut that did the most to make me fall out of love with apocalypse.