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[Seriphyn]

As I was taking shots of the 127 planets with city lights in the Federation, I had to explain how each was colonized. For the Federation, this was relatively easy. Both pre-Fed and Fed era, settled by various governments, various corporations, colonies that colonized again, individuals/groups with lots of money etc.

For the Caldari, it was all their ex-colonies constructed over a couple centuries. For the Amarr, slow and gradual expansion.

But for the Minmatar...I look at their worlds with city lights (even if the light layer is broken right now). Did the Republic build all of those within the 100 years of its existence, or were these all formerly Amarrian and they were kicked out?
 

[BloodBird]

As I was taking shots of the 127 planets with city lights in the Federation, I had to explain how each was colonized. For the Federation, this was relatively easy. Both pre-Fed and Fed era, settled by various governments, various corporations, colonies that colonized again, individuals/groups with lots of money etc.

For the Caldari, it was all their ex-colonies constructed over a couple centuries. For the Amarr, slow and gradual expansion.

But for the Minmatar...I look at their worlds with city lights (even if the light layer is broken right now). Did the Republic build all of those within the 100 years of its existence, or were these all formerly Amarrian and they were kicked out?
 

The answer to this lies with the annoying plot-hole called; were the Minmatar enslaved for 700 years (more or less) like PF originally claimed, or did they have elements of the Matari Empire still struggling and still holding some planets by the time of the 'rebellion' right after the Amarrians ran into the Gallente/Jovians?

Either they had loads of planets to kick amarrians off from, or they had some and some (or atl one) that were free all the time and could colonize from.

[Ken]

Amarr slowly expand.

Find Minmatar in Pator and a few systems nearby.

Conquer.

Use local Minmatar population to colonize new regions.

Minmatar spread out in Heimatar, Metropolis, Molden Heath as slaves.

Time passes.

Minmatar revolt en mass, take over regions where they are the dominant demographic force.

[Mizhara]

It's not like the Matari lived in caves while being slaves.

[BloodBird]

It's not like the Matari lived in caves while being slaves.

No, but I fail to see why the Empire would make the Matari a primary concern for futher colonization; would they not use all that newly found/conquered space for their own people? Leave the Matari on their original worlds, and as slaves in all the old Imperial planets and the new ones they took. I don't see why they would deploy several million Matari on each of the new worlds they found after/during the war with the old Matari empire. I might be missing something though.

[Mithfindel]

tl;dr: About thousand years of guerrilla hideouts combined with some stranger projects (Thukker) and a hundred-year rebuilding spree (mostly diverted to build titans, though).

My personal theory is that both (Rebel) Matari and Amarr colonized worlds. The Minmatar were close to interstellar travel by the old version anyway, except by doing them in a "special" way. Even if they were completely spanked by the Amarr in the initial raids, I assume the Amarr did notice on early invasion that they had bitten more than they could chew - but, in true Amarr fashion, aborting the invasion was not an option. So they did what they could with their under equipped fleet, possibly designed to take out an industrial civilization, not an interplanetary one, captured a lot of slaves, ACN spins it as a fine victory, and they'll come back later.

However, it takes but a few smart Sebiestor, one downed Amarr slaver ship and some duct tape to jury-rig that Amarr drive into the remains of the colony ship, and off you go. By the time the Amarr came back, the Minmatar had prepared to go guerrilla on their current planets as well as possibly send a colony or two on other planets. Enter a thousand years of cat-and-mouse. The Minmatar, if being careful, might even get a head start of a century or so by picking "less suitable" worlds for colonization (avoiding detection), where the Amarr would spread slaves, possibly from the closest source, to the better suited ones.

And anyway, if some Imperial Exploration team claimed they had seen a non-Amarr starship, who would believe them? Everyone knew that the God's Chosen were the only civilized spacefaring nation in the universe. Or well, some monkeys from "Matar" had been able to use a giant slingshot and some chemical rockets to propel them from rock to rock, but such of a primitive technology could not take them to the stars, specially now when the ancient relics they had used to move between their home system and two others were securely in Amarr hands. Sure, the savages had gotten lucky and downed a few Imperial ships on some raids, but those ships were dead. the Emperor's engineers could likely repair those if they were moved to a well-equipped wharf. It is completely impossible that the primitives could repair the technology. In the matter of fact, a nation that barely mastered nuclear power and other such simple technology basically one step up from making fire would only burn their fingers trying to touch holy faster-than-light (or fast-sublight) technology.

And when someone really finds out that hey, these guys have escaped. The Imperial Navy (designed to look good, move to planetary orbits, bombard the place, and launch dropships) gets to play cat-and-mouse with the "Free Minmatar" forces. Possibly still winning any pitched battles with those siege tachyon beams, but then again, the Minmatar don't have anything yet that could find a "pitched battle" against the Golden Fleets, so they're mostly evading and making quick raids. The Amarr of course start to react, creating such innovative and agile designs such as the Augoror and the Maller.

But not fast enough - Minmatar have now experience on how to colonize a planet, and where the Amarr forces explore new systems likely still at the old, rather leisurely place (they're the only spacefaring civilization, remember, no need to hurry), the Minmatar are driven. They need to escape, or they're being crushed. One group takes this to the extreme, never settling properly and escaping far further than the other Minmatar ever, to the Great Wildlands. Some other groups find space closer, or are given some by the Amarr (Nefantar tribe home constellation, anyone?). Slowly but surely, the Amarr are catching up, though, and the hope seems lost. And then someone sees a green starship, has a chat with its captain over a few glasses of wine and the rest is history. The Federation is at war with the Caldari rebels, and they hear of a great Empire that is conquering all. Better help the small guy stall the Empire and try to finish the business with the Caldari. Of course, the Amarr have by now figured out what the Minmatar were doing, but they - not even after they have made contact with the Gallente themselves - likely cannot comprehend that the Minmatar now have access to Gallente technology, as well. Might take a moment to figure out the Gallente, too. What do you mean the Senate doesn't commit suicide after a new President is elected?

When the Empire retreats after the Rebellion, the Minmatar "start rebuilding" with the help of the Federation, but as evident from relatively recent information, they're partially still in the guerrilla mode, and divert a lot of resources to the Thukkers, who build them titans.

[Rodj Blake]

Amarr slowly expand.

Find Minmatar in Pator and a few systems nearby.

Conquer.

Use local Minmatar population to colonize new regions.

Minmatar spread out in Heimatar, Metropolis, Molden Heath as slaves.

Time passes.

Minmatar revolt en mass, take over regions where they are the dominant demographic force.

Pretty much this.

[Horatius Caul]

It's not like the Matari lived in caves while being slaves.

No, but I fail to see why the Empire would make the Matari a primary concern for futher colonization; would they not use all that newly found/conquered space for their own people? Leave the Matari on their original worlds, and as slaves in all the old Imperial planets and the new ones they took. I don't see why they would deploy several million Matari on each of the new worlds they found after/during the war with the old Matari empire. I might be missing something though.

Consider the historical perspective for a minute. What other races had the Empire reclaimed prior to the Minmatar?

The Udorians and Khanid were long since integrated into the Empire, sharing a historical and cultural heritage that stretched back thousands of years alongside the True Amarr. It had been a struggle, certainly, but after Athra was united, the Amarr were on top of the world.

The Ealureans were primitive. I believe it's suggested they were at a stone or bronze age level, and thus hardly had any sort of coherent culture for coherence or ability to oppose the Amarr. Their language and societal uniqueness would have been snuffed out in an instant, never to return to plague the Empire.

The Ni-Kunni went willingly. They surrendered to the Amarr banner and signed away their culture to be amalgamated into that of the Empire. Perhaps some historical and social parallels (like an arid homeworld potentially giving rise to similar societies) also allowed for a smooth integration.

When the Amarr encountered the Minmatar, they thus had no concept at all of being properly opposed in the Reclaiming. They were likely surprised by how advanced the Minmatar were, and found themselves unsuited to subjugate them. The Krusual background seems to indicate that the Amarr couldn't even truly conquer all of Matar. What's more, the Minmatar were an industrial space-faring society - possibly on a similar level as our own modern world. They would have had a strong culture, extensive education, advanced methods of communication... and the Amarr treated them just like the Ealur and Ni-Kunni - expecting the Matari Spirit to simply ebb out in a generation or two.

They had the new slave populations develop frontier worlds governed by token True Amarr holder presences that had proven more than capable of overseeing Ealurean and Ni-Kunni slave societies before - slave societies that had surrendered or completely lost their cultural unity. The Minmatar on the other hand, were fierce and educated. It's not a stretch to imagine them quickly figuring out secret languages, concealed ways to maintain historical writings and scientific knowledge, and using the Amarr methods to their advantage. Just imagine what would happen if humanity was enslaved en-masse by a similar state, and kept in our existing cultural clades - the Tribe of England could keep speaking English and secretly honoring their lost royal family, the Tribe of America could conspire to hide strike fighter schematics in tapestries... or something.

My point is that Amarr had no idea how to handle a functional resistant society, and the methods of slave control they had established did nothing to eradicate the parts of Minmatar culture that allowed them to retain their identity. That's why the Amarr were stupid enough to populate their fringe worlds largely with Minnie slaves, and that's why those slaves were able to rise up as one.

[Z.Sinraali]

....the Tribe of America could conspire to hide strike fighter schematics in tapestries... or something.

Fast food. The sesame seeds are microprinted with messages and the secret sauce can be transformed into a chemical weapon with the addition of ammonia.

[Alain Colcer]

Amarr slowly expand.

Find Minmatar in Pator and a few systems nearby.

Conquer.

Use local Minmatar population to colonize new regions.

Minmatar spread out in Heimatar, Metropolis, Molden Heath as slaves.

Time passes.

Minmatar revolt en mass, take over regions where they are the dominant demographic force.

I've been munching on this, and what aspects or angles it has, it is a solid concept if you consider that Minmatar "slaves" were not really slaves per se....but more of a subjugated psyche....they deposed their weapons when they saw how poweful the aliens were.

But even so, i cannot imagine that after 700 years (at least 4-5 generations) they would suddenly find the technology, strengh, unity AND coordination to actually overthrow their overlords. Even if you could say a single planet managed to do it, it would take 2-3 years for an ammar fleet to come by and nuke the planet from orbit again, teaching the rebels a lesson........i just cannot reconcile all the info.

So i will just give it to CCP and say its part of the large mysteries of the eve canon along with everything else.

[Merdaneth]

No, but I fail to see why the Empire would make the Matari a primary concern for futher colonization; would they not use all that newly found/conquered space for their own people? Leave the Matari on their original worlds, and as slaves in all the old Imperial planets and the new ones they took. I don't see why they would deploy several million Matari on each of the new worlds they found after/during the war with the old Matari empire. I might be missing something though.

Those slaves are their own people. Also, slaves are especially suited to colonizing new worlds. Slaves are flexible, adaptable and self-replicating tools. Mechanical tools are more suited to better developed worlds.

[Alain Colcer]

Those slaves are their own people. Also, slaves are especially suited to colonizing new worlds. Slaves are flexible, adaptable and self-replicating tools. Mechanical tools are more suited to better developed worlds.

You touched exactly the point that bothers me the most, you treat the slaves as tools, even if they are on the "path" to enlightment....you limit what they can do, what you give them, cause they are tools, they have a limited purpose.

So exactly how tools become sentient rebels with technology capable weapons and ships on par to fight their overlords.....and coordinate it across 3 regions of space 

[Laerise [PIE]]

Considering how the gallente were involved with this it was most likely them who gave the minmatar firesticks and chariots that ride the stars.

[Gottii]

Its worth noting that its now cannon that the Amarrians didnt conquer the entirety of the Minmatar people.  Their were Matari systems that were never conquered, and resisted/hid from the Amarrians up until the Rebellion.

[Merdaneth]

You touched exactly the point that bothers me the most, you treat the slaves as tools, even if they are on the "path" to enlightment....you limit what they can do, what you give them, cause they are tools, they have a limited purpose.

So exactly how tools become sentient rebels with technology capable weapons and ships on par to fight their overlords.....and coordinate it across 3 regions of space 

By treating them as tools instead of people with equal intelligence. It think that Amarr may have woefully underestimated the Minmatar, and that managed to self-educate and self-organize quite well over time. I think the extra-ordinary thing is not that they managed to do so, but that they managed to retain their cultural identity over so long a time.

After 50 years of no real insurrections, you would certainly see Minmatar slaves operating all kinds of military equipment and being used as riot police etc. Moving from there to rebellion is not that large a step.