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[Julianus Soter]

I counter your opinion with the information of the leaks displayed in the news article of the OP.

[Jade Constantine]

*shrugs*

Were an infiltrator to post Star Fraction alliance mails up on IGS currently there would be a mix of in and out of character information that would be meaningless to parse from a purely in-character perspective. That is unless you felt you could interpret the whole of our alliance going routinely into another reality called "SISI" to practise for the alliance tournament as some kind of wormhole physics experiment from our tower in Pelille.

Thus my opinion is your observation is hardly pertinent to the case in point. Most alliances mix ooc and ic material in their internal posting in some form. Claiming that because I-RED also do this somehow invalidates their good reputation as solid roleplayers who can separate IC and OOC conflict and maintain a decent relationship with other players even while their characters are involved in fighting and IGS feuding - well, it doesn't hold water for me.

Your mileage may vary. But I think given recent events its wise not to throw stones in glass houses.

[Kai S]

I am a bit upset about people's reaction to this whole thing, mainly because my name shows up in the log a lot and as a result i'm apparantly the 'spy' A lot of the OOC stuff I saw about this when it first showed up was very negative.
Sure it's a leak, but as it doesn't really contain anything very incriminating. Why not just make the most of it and use it as an opportunity to do more RP?

Also sorry for the angry mail this morning Milo. I jumped to conclusions somewhat. At the end of the day it is just a game, and i'm sure I can find another good corp to fly with.

[Mizhara]

Pretty much everything can be considered IC from where I'm standing. Diplomacy, Voice Comms, and yes... even SiSi. (Combat Simulator, voila. SiSi is IC.) Vent/TS is just a voice comms protocol and forums and killboards are exactly that. Galnet resources for the corporation/alliance in question.

There's almost nothing you can't turn IC if you can be arsed.
That's the beauty of Eve.

[Jade Constantine]

Pretty much everything can be considered IC from where I'm standing. Diplomacy, Voice Comms ...

Quick (slightly frivolous) question. But how would you handle somebody making a recording of your voice as Mizhara during a fleet op then posting it on IGS as "proof" that your character was a transvestite and not a real female?

[Mizhara]

Voice masking for privacy reasons. Personally, I mostly go OoC on voice chat if there's actual chatter going on, since I like the /emotes you can use to lend a bit of depth to IC interaction in-game but there's a lot of IC chatter on voice comms going on too. If someone records it and tries to score cheap ass points, it can be refuted just as easily.

Edit: Besides, it'd be a nice lead in to notes about Miz having bigger balls than the one posting it, so it could actually be fun.

[Julianus Soter]

If we applied the same standard, then most certainly all of the 'bars' that exist in the roleplaying community would be shown as frauds, actually being nothing more than overly elaborate chatrooms where people pretend to be drinking intoxicating beverages and snorting drugs.

The medium is a matter of artistic interpretation in roleplay. The content is never up for dispute.

[Verone]

Okay, I'll add my two cents.

First off, I hit the report post button on the IGS and gave this reasoning in the submit box :

This is not even a remotely roleplay based thread, and is shocking.

Someone is obviously making an ooc attempt to smear I-RED and has included all their OOC details, interaction and diplomacy within an IC post.

You can see the RP community's feeling on this here : http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=2296.0

IMO the link should be taken down and the thread locked with reasoning.

Now, I'm all for this kind of thing happening completely in character.

For instance if a Provist Corporation is secretly dealing with a Gallente Loyalist outfit and people are looking to expose them, or a Matari Loyalist Corporation happens to be buying and selling slaves, to give basic examples.

What happened here had very little to do with IC interaction, and in all honesty is a disgrace.

A huge swathe of OOC information has been posted, that has NOTHING to do with I-RED's IC stance and their IC opinion of things.

I agree with people who've said it's nothing more than a weak and poor attempt at a smear campaign given the inclusion of all the OOC information.

Any roleplayer in the right mind who wanted to make an IC release of I-RED's personal data would have had the common decency to sit down and sift through it all to pick out what was relevant IC and what was blatently IC information.

Sorry, but this is well out of order in my opinion and has nothing to do with roleplay.

[Casiella]

[mod]Tried to remove unconstructive posts. Further flaming and attacks will lead to additional administrative action. Play nice, folks.[/mod]

[Jade Constantine]

Okay, I'll add my two cents.

First off, I hit the report post button on the IGS and gave this reasoning in the submit box :

This is not even a remotely roleplay based thread, and is shocking.

Someone is obviously making an ooc attempt to smear I-RED and has included all their OOC details, interaction and diplomacy within an IC post.

You can see the RP community's feeling on this here : http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=2296.0

IMO the link should be taken down and the thread locked with reasoning.

Now, I'm all for this kind of thing happening completely in character.

For instance if a Provist Corporation is secretly dealing with a Gallente Loyalist outfit and people are looking to expose them, or a Matari Loyalist Corporation happens to be buying and selling slaves, to give basic examples.

What happened here had very little to do with IC interaction, and in all honesty is a disgrace.

A huge swathe of OOC information has been posted, that has NOTHING to do with I-RED's IC stance and their IC opinion of things.

I agree with people who've said it's nothing more than a weak and poor attempt at a smear campaign given the inclusion of all the OOC information.

Any roleplayer in the right mind who wanted to make an IC release of I-RED's personal data would have had the common decency to sit down and sift through it all to pick out what was relevant IC and what was blatently IC information.

Sorry, but this is well out of order in my opinion and has nothing to do with roleplay.

Ironically your report is almost identical to the one I submitted last night.
Funny old world isn't it

[Senn Typhos]

I think I'll try to put this into perspective. What's the difference between the last time someone dealt with IC ramifications for their OOC behavior:

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1376236/page/1#16

And this time?

[Jade Constantine]

Sorry Senn but that thread
It wasn't very good.

Re the difference though. I guess the target was SF (kinda) so was considered valid for smearing. There used to be a convention in certain sections of the RP community that because SF was "unpopular" that "anything goes" and there were no restrictions to dubious behaviour. I think that has changed a bit in recent years.

But the principle is broadly the same. OOC chat logs crowbarred into IC propaganda on IGS are always bad and shouldn't really be condoned by anyone.

[Mizhara]

There's one difference here. That bit was about actual in-game stuff planned and executed, and thus IC. This... seems mostly to be just about OoC Real Life stuff and then a huge dump of useless shite that has no real 'revelatory' effect at all. Now, the useless shite seems to be perfectly valid IC leaks, and the rest should have been sifted out a bit.

But get off ANNs back. Why should ANN be the filter here? If it's just something that is to be filtered, do it your freakin' self. It's not rocket surgery to disregard statements about internet cafes and real life info when reading through this dump. Get off that particular high horse and apply the same damn standards to yourself that you are now lumping onto ANN and it's people.

We do it all the time in EM, as an immersionist alliance that deals with non-RPers. Logs sometimes gets posted and there's a small warning that some things are OoC chatter. Everyone applies a little filter in what they mentally omit or transform into something that's IC equivalent.

"So yeah, I was afk for ten minutes." turns to "I was off comms for ten minutes." or whatever other IC equivalent is around.
Almost everything can be made IC this way, and those few things that aren't can easily be omitted from the discussion that follows.

Leave ANN alone and just RP the rest out. It's not that hard.

[Ken]

Leave ANN alone and just RP the rest out. It's not that hard.

There's just nothing to RP about it besides to say "so wut" and maybe drop a comment about publishing choices in the "independent press".    From my perspective, there is nothing nefarious, embarrassing, or even particularly private (from the IC side) in the "leak" at all.

[Mizhara]

Exactly. So this is a fuckton of hubbub about almost nothing at all.