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[Julianus Soter]

Oh dear, I step away from the game to graduate university, and jade constantine makes 5 posts in an out of character forum trying to shape public opinion about a military campaign. What am I to do.

I'll update this thread in a bit when I get some free time. Until then, let's just say, Jade Constantine betrayed Ethan Verone IC and OOC, and Verone wasn't happy. Verone now wants to destroy Star Fraction. Verone and Rote Kapelle are working together. Rote Kapelle hates Star Fraction, IC and OOC. Rote Kapelle now fighting SF.

Oh, did I mention a mercenary contract wardec by Vice Industries against Moira? To the tune of 1.4 billion isk plus 10% commission for two weeks? Someone must not like us. Or thinks they need help in the current strategic situation.

Ironic that this corporation is Caldari Militia. Better hope SF isn't behind it. . . .

[Jade Constantine]

actually nvm.

[Julianus Soter]

Then you betrayed Verone.

Just to clarify things for the peanut gallery.

Jade edited his post. Initially it stated, "there is no OOC jade constantine". I don't believe I should be forced to edit my posts because other individuals edit theirs after making them.

[scagga]

Then you betrayed Verone.

Just to clarify things for the peanut gallery.

Comrade please chill out.  You're posting whilst irate.  If you believe there are factual matters to discuss I would suggest you kindly lay them out so they can be comfortably digested.  The alternative is that this kind of posting is the thin end of the wedge...

[Julianus Soter]

I'm confused. What Jade Constantine did is a matter of fact and evidence. . .and Jade's failure to address it is a clear attempt to whitewash The Star Fraction while mischaracterizing the three other participants of this conflict.

Should I simply lay down on the ground like a snake and crawl to Jade Constantine's lap, while he posts an entire page of text on these forums? No, I believe I am morally obligated to clarify some of these issues for the general roleplaying community.

Verone will need to post here, or needs to grant me permission, for the specifics of this whole clusterfark to be revealed. I can't speak further on the details, but everything I've thus far typed in this thread is fully supported by chatlogs and combat data.

[Verone]

Okay... so here we go. Things from my point of view.

This will be long, drawn out, but gives every fact in my possession.

The first Evemail arrived, and intrigued me :

I'd like a chance to speak to you when you have a moment
From: Jade Constantine
Sent: 2011.05.13 01:28
To: Verone, 

Please let me know when and if its convenient?

All the best.

Naturally, I followed it up :

Re: I'd like a chance to speak to you when you have a moment
From: Verone
Sent: 2011.05.13 01:29
To: Jade Constantine,

It's always convenient at this time of night.

Re: Re: I'd like a chance to speak to you when you have a moment
From: Jade Constantine
Sent: 2011.05.13 01:31
To: Verone, 

You have auto reject on so please convo me when you have a moment ?

And convo him I did, becoming genuinely shocked :

[ 2011.05.13 01:31:27 ] Verone > Evening
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:30 ] Jade Constantine > Hello there, ... you are as much a nightowl as me then ?
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:34 ] Verone > Or morning rather, in all honesty.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:54 ] Verone > Yeah, I have the most bizarre sleeping patterin in the world, thanks to shift work.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:55 ] Jade Constantine > my excuse is contracting with us companies at the moment
 [ 2011.05.13 01:32:07 ] Verone > ah work it is then
 [ 2011.05.13 01:32:31 ] Jade Constantine > yeah kicks the hell out of my sleeping patterns too though
 [ 2011.05.13 01:33:06 ] Verone > such is life. needs must
 [ 2011.05.13 01:33:36 ] Verone > still, it's not too bad. My girlfriend is in the states right now, so it gives us a chance to talk more.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:33:51 ] Jade Constantine > yeah thats not so bad really
 [ 2011.05.13 01:34:05 ] Jade Constantine > guess we're lucky to have jobs at all in this climate
 [ 2011.05.13 01:34:31 ] Jade Constantine > anyways as judging from rl talk and such this is mostly ooc but with some ic connections potentially bah .. dunno where to start really
 [ 2011.05.13 01:34:47 ] Jade Constantine > I guess I'll come out and say it
 [ 2011.05.13 01:35:29 ] Jade Constantine > I'd like your advise on how to repair my reputation and general situation in eve's rp community
 [ 2011.05.13 01:35:42 ] Jade Constantine > to cut a long story short I'm tired of rl feuds and ooc nonsense
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:03 ] Jade Constantine > amazingly after 8 years I still love this game and its community
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:08 ] Jade Constantine > and enjoy my corp and alliance
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:29 ] Jade Constantine > but I have gotten deeply bored of the feuds and virtual exile i've found myself in with rp circles
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:40 ] Jade Constantine > and I know we've had our arguments and hard words
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:55 ] Jade Constantine > but my gut feeling is you would appreciate what I'm feeling and motives behind it
 [ 2011.05.13 01:37:00 ] Verone > water under the bridge, as far as I'm concerned, I have terribly thick skin.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:38:01 ] Jade Constantine > well with me it tends to be more of a short attention span for arguments and such, i really don't get terribly into long term feuds truth to tell, eventually i forget what we were even feuding about
 [ 2011.05.13 01:38:57 ] Verone > I'm just not one to hold grudges personally. There's only one person in Eve that I have a permanant issue with, and that's down to his threatening my corp members in London, and threatening to stab me.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:39:11 ] Verone > Life's too short, in my personal opinion.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:39:16 ] Jade Constantine > yeah it is
 [ 2011.05.13 01:39:54 ] Jade Constantine > I've been trying to set something of a new note with my public roleplay last month or so and change some things
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:06 ] Jade Constantine > you know what I mean though
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:14 ] Verone > i've noticed, yeah.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:15 ] Jade Constantine > when I say I am bored of the ooc tensions with people
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:36 ] Verone > and in all honesty I'm quite flattered that it's me you'd come to.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:37 ] Jade Constantine > I'd rather find or rediscover a more enjoyable and productive level of interaction
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:59 ] Jade Constantine > well you are a pillar of the community to be honest
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:07 ] Jade Constantine > and thats not flattery just fact
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:17 ] Jade Constantine > you love this game
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:20 ] Jade Constantine > and the community
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:24 ] Jade Constantine > that much is obvious
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:38 ] Verone > Oh, I won't deny that... and to be honest, well, I just play, and try  to help people enjoy themselves.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:55 ] Verone > That's all I can do really
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:02 ] Jade Constantine > yeah and it works
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:16 ] Jade Constantine > my problem in many ways is just getting into too many feuds
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:25 ] Jade Constantine > i have mellowed a bit over the years
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:35 ] Jade Constantine > but still a lot of bad feelings remain amongst some
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:55 ] Jade Constantine > and I think a lot of people expect me to rip off the mask again and become a fuck
 [ 2011.05.13 01:43:17 ] Jade Constantine > but truth be told, I'd rather rp an anarchist than be an ooc troublemaker these days

I'd post the rest of the chalog but it's long, much like most correspondence with Jade.

In short, I agreed to broker a ceasefire between Moira and SF, so that SF could walk away from RP based conflict and cut their teeth on a non RP entity, giving the RP community time to cool off and me a change to talk to people, resolve feuds on his behalf and try to get his access to all the OOC channels he's been banned from reinstated.

I put my neck out, when I could have just told him to fuck off, and was willing to help. I spoke to Soter, and he gave terms for a ceasefire, at which point I got back to Jade.

An Update
From: Verone
Sent: 2011.05.16 19:02
To: Jade Constantine, 

I've spoken with Soter, and he's happy to organise a ceasefire IC.

He has several terms, none of which are very strong or really significant. Drop me a line when you're next free to talk and we'll talk about your terms and arrange an IC meeting.

Once we get this squared away and Moira are out of the picture i'll prepare a post for backstage, and take care of all your channel permissions over the coming week.

- V

Then, this happened. 

He then dropped an evemail to me :

Re: An Update
From: Jade Constantine
Sent: 2011.05.17 01:14
To: Verone,

Hey there Verone,

Well I remain as eager as before to resolve ooc issues since as we spoke - there really is no good side to all the nonsense and out of game spite.

I have also passed Soter's ceasefire suggestion to the Star Fraction membership and we will be voting on it over the next 24 hours.

I don't want to pour cold water but I have to say that I think its relatively unlikely that the majority of our members will look kindly on his words at this point.

Also the Veto gang that showed up to support Moira this evening sent a pretty strongarm message that I don't think will go down too well.

As an alliance we may not be the strongest but we have a great deal of pride in ourselves and our comrades and we can never really be forced to make peace by the show of strength by a third party.

Anyways - that said the message was passed on.

And I remain very hopefully we can resolve some issues and solve ooc problems but I think for the time being Moira will need to be off the table pending the decision of our captains.

All the best.

Jade.

My response :

Re: Re: An Update
From: Verone
Sent: 2011.05.17 02:32
To: Jade Constantine, 


Firstly, the apparent conflict between Veto/Rote and SF tonight isn't my doing. We're working in tandem with Rote at present, and they were fleet commanding at the time. It was their call to attack. Our members were in gang.

As for SF, I'm aware that SF is a proud alliance, and I have no issue with that being so. I spoke with Soter at length today, and you'll probably actually want to hear what I have to say, the whole situation is amicable and will work out well in SF's favour.

I was really hoping we could work together to solve the issues you feel that SF are having. I know we've locked horns in the past, but I'd quite like to help in terms of getting SF re-integrated with the RP community.

I'm seriously dissapointed that you've decided to pull out of this, I was looking forward to seeing SF firmly back within the RP scene.

V

Re: Re: Re: An Update
From: Jade Constantine
Sent: 2011.05.17 02:35
To: Verone,

My guys feel quite strongly that Moira must die.

So *shrugs* - I guess thats what we'll be doing.

I'm a little unhappy with the ic / ooc crossover stuff and having a Rote Kapelle full of smack talking morons in Pelille didn't help.

End of the day I think I was fairly honest about my desire for a resolution but I think its unlikely really.

Even if Rote and Veto back Moira we will keep up the war and allow patience to have its own reward.

Re: Re: Re: Re: An Update
From: Verone
Sent: 2011.05.17 02:38
To: Jade Constantine, 

I'm not bothered about Moira, they're not my problem.

Soter batphoned Rote when you guys started sieging the tower, and our guys were in fleet with them. We're not allied with Moira at all.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: An Update
From: Jade Constantine
Sent: 2011.05.17 02:43
To: Verone,

End of the day you helped Moira make an important kill and have delivered them an impressive morale boost. Because of the action the war will and must continue and we will now add you to the campaign stats and record your involvement as Moira allies - in terms of the ic war in space it is quite logical.

On other matters, *shrug* I don't think issues with rote are resolvable and so whatever really same old same old.

My final response to him :

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: An Update
From: Verone
Sent: 2011.05.17 02:52
To: Jade Constantine, 

Well then, I'm afraid you've forced my hand.

It would have been nice working with you.

The IGS shitstorm then assumed, after we also dropped this.

Then Jade mailed me with this :

as a point of order
From: Jade Constantine
Sent: 2011.05.18 18:36
To: Verone,

I don't personally think it is very good play for you to refer to our ooc discussion with me asking for your help to resolve ooc personality clashes and old grudges in the player community in an ic conflict thread on IGS.

Your mileage may vary of course. And if you feel it is neccessary to bring this stuff to the table then so be it.

The problem we had here I think ... is that you wanted to bind the peace deal with moira to my ooc request for better general relationships with your aspects of the community.

As I explained to you I do not run Star Fraction as you run Veto. It truly is a democracy and I cannot overrule the decision of the members for my personal peace of mind.

Any chance of you being trusted as a negotiator on ic peace talks was lost the moment a single veto pilot turned up in support of moira shipping and was seen by my alliance - and I don't really think that should be too surprising.

I consider that I approached you honestly with an open heart but the attempt you made to bind ic and ooc outcomes together led to this situation worsening.

Ironically the people to suffer are likely to be the rank and file in Soter's corp several of whom did actually approach me in search of peace terms and a way out in advance of the events at the siege.

Veto/Rote involvement have ensured there will be no peace.

And on this occassion I have to say I don't feel the eradication of their corporation will be entirely be our fault.

If you had been wise enough to rein in your people (and/or) restrain rote for 24 hours anything might have been possible and I think the genuine desire on Moira's part for an end and fresh start might have won our captains over.

Now however they are just seen as sock puppets for Veto/Kapelle and any sympathy is long flown.

As I said to you, I did genuinely want a better degree of interaction on an ooc level,

but the last few nights of vile smacktalk and evident frothing lunatic hatred from Veto/Kapelle in local has proven such intentions were foolish and naive on my part and eve ... well, the game has a way of making lunatics out of the sane - I guess we just need to learn to live with that.

Andy.

My response :

Re: as a point of order
From: Verone
Sent: 2011.05.18 19:03
To: Jade Constantine, 

I'm not particularly bothered about your view of my corporation, me, or how I run things.

The difference between myself and you, is that you actually care about people's public perception of your alliance. You have to because of the amount of times you take a shit all over people for no other reason than to fluff your ego.

On the contrary, we have the operational integrity to treat people with a base line of respect and decency until they give us reason to do otherwise by the use of dubious tactics and practices, rather than shitting all over them from the outset and gloating about it.

The fact of the matter is that we're NBSI, we have been for five and a half years, and we were flying with Rote because we're friends with them and they're our only blue. You've known about our NBSI engagement policy since the corporation was formed. It's no secret, we're pirates and opportunists.

I saw an opportunity to help you, and truly I'd have loved to do so. I was on the verge of having a resolution prepared that would have more than likely, with your assistance, ushered in a lot of change.

What happened with regards to Moira is simple.

Our members were flying with Rote, and we're both NBSI. We were presented with targets of opportunity completely by chance, and as opportuinsts we took the chance.

In our 48 hours of contact, I never once mentioned a ceasefire between Veto Corp, Rote Kapelle and The Star Fraction. My sole aim was to stop the conflict between SF and Moira so that we could move ahead with further plans on repairing your reputation and integrating SF back into the RP circle.

The outcome of the situation is simple.

You said you were willing to change, you said that you were making a concerntrated effort to clean up your act. In the last 48 hours you've done everything humanly possible to reverse any effect at all you've had.

You've started spouting bile all over the forums again, making personal attacks at people and throwing your percieved weight around as everyone has come to expect of you over the last 8 years.

I've wanted to help you, I believed you could change, but you've proved me wrong. People are laughing at the walls of meaningless text again, and the cycle has turned on its head and started afresh.

I wish I could help you, I really do. In the end though, you need to help yourself before anyone can do that. Sadly, I realise now that you're incapable of doing this, you're too caught up in this little bubble of false reality you seem to have created over the last 8 years.

I hope it bursts and you start to see sense, for your own sake. I've wanted to help you resolve these old feuds, but I can't do so until you help yourself by snapping back to the reality and gravity of the situation.

Regardless, it's no longer my problem. I've had well over a dozen pledges of support from RP entities wanting to give their guns to us. Many in response to wrongs you've done to them in the past. I've turned them all away, because I have no will to harm Star Fraction.

You forced Rote Kapelle into this conflict by including them in your pointless statistics, and now you've forced my hand in the same respect.

Any loss on your part, you have brought on your own people personally, due to your own egotistic inability to change for the better and accept help in doing so.

I extended an olive branch that was ignored and snubbed. I won't make the same mistake twice.

Please don't bother responding to this mail, your words will be met with silence, and it'll be forwarded directoy to my trash folder without being read.

I haven't the time for further chin wagging, rediculous finger pointing and pointless nonsensical correspondance from you.

From here the correspondence pretty much died off and went to the IGS.


And now it's time for a little clarification from our side of the fence :

For some reason there seems to be this misconception that we suddenly and heroically jumped to Moira's aid over the last few days.

Here's where our corporation actually came into the conflict. The abridged from our point of view :

> A Veto lead gang is out in space in lowsec Placid. It consists of Veto And Rote Kapelle ships.

> Soter speaks to Rote Kapelle leadership and says that if they want it, there's a few SF hulls bashing a tower in their home system.

> This filters through Rote's voice comms, where Rote are kindly hosting our joint ops so that we can trial Veto Corp out on Teamspeak 3 to see if we'd like to invest in a server (we currently have a Ventrilo server and some of our guys are having latency issues).

> The intel is forwarded to our gang lead through voice. There's not much going on, and our gang just got blue balled by a missioning carrier that logged off.

> With this in mind, our gang lead thought fuck it, lets go have some fun, spurred on by Rote Kapelle who seem to love killing SF.

> The joint gang heads over, catches SF napping and manages to nab the Tengu as SF flee the field.

> luls are had, people are happy they got on a kill, the gang moves on.

> I then receive a mail from Jade claiming we're actively working with Moira and are BFFs with them now.

> I laugh, and state that we took targets of opportunity. I was offline at the time of the engagement (14 hour shifts suck), one of our gang leads took neutral targets of opportunity and an engagement took place.

> Jade gets mad, again states that we're hand holding Moira, and basically claims it was some kind of pre-organised shot at SF.

> Jade then states that he's adding us to his campaign against Moira, as we're now apparently their BFF. Fair play, whatever. THey might get a couple of kills against us at some point to bolster their flagging campaign efficiency level.

> I head shake and correct him, he then goes to the IGS to try to :walloftext: a shitstorm and smear us, which ultimately fails given the fact we don't particularly care about his opinion of us.

> Yesterday, I decide to speak with Soter and give Moira temporary blue while we're in the area to stop his pilots being fired on by us. No disrespect to Soter and his corporation but we don't even remotely consider them a threat given our size and activity in relation to his own, and I'd rather them have one less pirate corp in the area to deal with while they're focusing on fighting SF.

> Rote Kapelle to my knowledge have not done the same and have traded some paint and ammunition with Moira in the last 24 hours as a matter of general operations. Fair play to them, Veto makes our own policies, as do Rote. We fly together and have fun, that's pretty much as far as the inter-alliance relationship goes. We have strong bonds with Rote given we have some very old friends there and the two entities have expressed an interest in flying together for some time now.

> We continue to operate alongside Rote Kapelle out of TXW, due to the fact that I wanted to give our guys a good initial taste of 0.0 . We continue to run joint operations with them, and will for the next couple of months at the minimum. It's a refresher  for our guys who're rusty on 0.0 and a learning experience for those who've never been there.


So lets look at this objectively, stepping Veto and Rote Kapelle back from the situation given our minimal involvement :

Jade has personally and directly said to me via evemail that he wants to completely destroy Moira. His terms for resolution of the war some time ago to Soter when he approached them were that Jules would have to leave Moira, and they would have to remove all their fixed assets from space.

Lets looks at statistics and objectives, directly from SF's own source :


Julianus Soter's Removal : Incomplete

Removal of Moira's Fixed Assets In Placid : Incomplete

Destruction of Moira : Incomplete

The Star Fraction's Overall Combat Efficiency over the course of this conflict : 34.79%

The Star Fraction's Combat Efficiency vs Moira over this conflict : 29.9%

The Star Fraction's Combat Efficiency vs Rote Kapelle over this conflict : 7.72% ( not that this statistic really matters )

The Star Fraction's Combat Efficiency vs Veto Corp over this conflict : 0% ( not that this statistic really matters )

The Star Fraction's Combat Efficiency vs CVA over this conflict : 74.7% ( not that this statistic really matters )

Even with the statistics from Veto, Rote Kapelle and CVA in place, the overall percentages are heavily stacked against SF, and none of their stated objective are complete.


Looking at the fundamental statistics, the result of analysis is simple :

The Star Fraction is losing a war they started, against a corporation that can at the best of times field a 10-15 man fleet.

Why? Because the small corporation that they're faced off against has the common decency and dignity to treat the other organisations around them with a shred of respect and engage in reasonable and friendly dialogue without resorting to egotistical bullshit.


Moving back to Veto Corp, in the end it's a dictatorship and I have the final word on everything that happens in terms of corporate direction and operations. As our diplomat and executor, I can safely say that on the whole we see SF as posing zero threat to our operation capacity, and will continue to consider them targets of opportunity to be engaged in a free fire NBSI environment.

I'll probably poke my head in and read a little now and again, but honestly after the amount of bile that's been spat from the mouths of SF's member base over the last few days I'm not really interested.

These are the facts as seen from our side of the fence. No doubt Jade and his troop will selectively quote this post, mash up my words and twist them to what they want them to be seen as, or use them completely out of context, before offering a response.

Honestly? I tried to help Jade on an out of character level, by starting with the organising both in and out of character changes that could benefit and assist The Star Fraction and Jade himself.

My efforts were spat back in my face, and things were turned around on me to make me look like the aggressor and the asshole in the situation.

I'm not particularly bothered, we have far bigger and more juicy fish to fry which will provide the challenge that combined [VETO] and [STUGH] forces are looking for. We'll probably pop our noses into Placid every so often as we pass through to get to most of the lowsec backbone tat gives us our non-nullsec hunting grounds, other than that it's business as usual.

That's basically it from me on the subject, sorry for the wall of text.

[Jade Constantine]

Can I ask you to post the entire chatlog please Verone ?
Either that or give me your permission to post it for you?

[Silas Vitalia]

* Goes back to concession stand for more popcorn*

This is why I'm a fan of as little OOC interaction as possible, btw.

[Verone]

Can I ask you to post the entire chatlog please Verone ?
Either that or give me your permission to post it for you?

Sure, I'll post it. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

It's quite long, and I won't shit up the forums with a huge quote so anyone who wants it can download the raw text file from megaupload here.

[Jade Constantine]

Sure, I'll post it. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

It's quite long, and I won't shit up the forums with a huge quote so anyone who wants it can download the raw text file from megaupload here.

I will take that as your explicit agreement to share the text log then and post it here.

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Channel ID:      -21616278
  Channel Name:    Private Chat (Verone)
  Listener:        Jade Constantine
  Session started: 2011.05.13 01:31:15
---------------------------------------------------------------

 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:28 ] Verone > Evening
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:30 ] Jade Constantine > Hello there, ... you are as much a nightowl as me then ?
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:35 ] Verone > Or morning rather, in all honesty.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:55 ] Verone > Yeah, I have the most bizarre sleeping patterin in the world, thanks to shift work.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:31:55 ] Jade Constantine > my excuse is contracting with us companies at the moment
 [ 2011.05.13 01:32:08 ] Verone > ah work it is then
 [ 2011.05.13 01:32:31 ] Jade Constantine > yeah kicks the hell out of my sleeping patterns too though
 [ 2011.05.13 01:33:07 ] Verone > such is life. needs must
 [ 2011.05.13 01:33:37 ] Verone > still, it's not too bad. My girlfriend is in the states right now, so it gives us a chance to talk more.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:33:52 ] Jade Constantine > yeah thats not so bad really
 [ 2011.05.13 01:34:05 ] Jade Constantine > guess we're lucky to have jobs at all in this climate
 [ 2011.05.13 01:34:31 ] Jade Constantine > anyways as judging from rl talk and such this is mostly ooc but with some ic connections potentially bah .. dunno where to start really
 [ 2011.05.13 01:34:47 ] Jade Constantine > I guess I'll come out and say it
 [ 2011.05.13 01:35:29 ] Jade Constantine > I'd like your advise on how to repair my reputation and general situation in eve's rp community
 [ 2011.05.13 01:35:42 ] Jade Constantine > to cut a long story short I'm tired of rl feuds and ooc nonsense
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:03 ] Jade Constantine > amazingly after 8 years I still love this game and its community
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:08 ] Jade Constantine > and enjoy my corp and alliance
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:30 ] Jade Constantine > but I have gotten deeply bored of the feuds and virtual exile i've found myself in with rp circles
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:40 ] Jade Constantine > and I know we've had our arguments and hard words
 [ 2011.05.13 01:36:55 ] Jade Constantine > but my gut feeling is you would appreciate what I'm feeling and motives behind it
 [ 2011.05.13 01:37:01 ] Verone > water under the bridge, as far as I'm concerned, I have terribly thick skin.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:38:01 ] Jade Constantine > well with me it tends to be more of a short attention span for arguments and such, i really don't get terribly into long term feuds truth to tell, eventually i forget what we were even feuding about
 [ 2011.05.13 01:38:58 ] Verone > I'm just not one to hold grudges personally. There's only one person in Eve that I have a permanant issue with, and that's down to his threatening my corp members in London, and threatening to stab me.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:39:12 ] Verone > Life's too short, in my personal opinion.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:39:17 ] Jade Constantine > yeah it is
 [ 2011.05.13 01:39:54 ] Jade Constantine > I've been trying to set something of a new note with my public roleplay last month or so and change some things
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:06 ] Jade Constantine > you know what I mean though
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:14 ] Verone > i've noticed, yeah.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:15 ] Jade Constantine > when I say I am bored of the ooc tensions with people
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:37 ] Jade Constantine > I'd rather find or rediscover a more enjoyable and productive level of interaction
 [ 2011.05.13 01:40:37 ] Verone > and in all honesty I'm quite flattered that it's me you'd come to.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:00 ] Jade Constantine > well you are a pillar of the community to be honest
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:07 ] Jade Constantine > and thats not flattery just fact
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:17 ] Jade Constantine > you love this game
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:20 ] Jade Constantine > and the community
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:24 ] Jade Constantine > that much is obvious
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:39 ] Verone > Oh, I won't deny that... and to be honest, well, I just play, and try  to help people enjoy themselves.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:41:56 ] Verone > That's all I can do really
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:02 ] Jade Constantine > yeah and it works
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:16 ] Jade Constantine > my problem in many ways is just getting into too many feuds
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:25 ] Jade Constantine > i have mellowed a bit over the years
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:35 ] Jade Constantine > but still a lot of bad feelings remain amongst some
 [ 2011.05.13 01:42:55 ] Jade Constantine > and I think a lot of people expect me to rip off the mask again and become a fuck
 [ 2011.05.13 01:43:17 ] Jade Constantine > but truth be told, I'd rather rp an anarchist than be an ooc troublemaker these days
 [ 2011.05.13 01:43:24 ] Verone > I think it's less of a case of the number of feuds you've gotten into, and more a case of the duration of them. If they last a long time, people tend to draw the conclusion that it's an out of character, rather than in character issue
 [ 2011.05.13 01:43:37 ] Jade Constantine > well truth be told
 [ 2011.05.13 01:43:43 ] Jade Constantine > a lot of them were ooc obviously
 [ 2011.05.13 01:43:53 ] Verone > The Amarrian bloc are a perfect example, although I'm quite certain from a third party's point of view that there was some ooc animosity there
 [ 2011.05.13 01:43:58 ] Jade Constantine > and of the stuff gets self reinforcing
 [ 2011.05.13 01:44:08 ] Verone > that much is true
 [ 2011.05.13 01:44:32 ] Jade Constantine > i mean I'm not a saint but also not the complete demon - but I do (or did) have a serious habit of answering back hard
 [ 2011.05.13 01:44:43 ] Jade Constantine > when sometimes I should have just shrugged and walked away
 [ 2011.05.13 01:45:36 ] Verone > oh, i'm guilty of that too
 [ 2011.05.13 01:46:49 ] Verone > it's a tall order though, given how drastically some people have seperated themselves from The Fraction in general.
 [ 2011.05.13 01:47:11 ] Verone > I think it'll take quite a sustained effort, over a long timeframe
 [ 2011.05.13 01:47:45 ] Jade Constantine > yeah I can see that
 [ 2011.05.13 01:47:51 ] Jade Constantine > one of the problems now
 [ 2011.05.13 01:48:00 ] Jade Constantine > is that in essence we're kinda remote from the rp community
 [ 2011.05.13 01:48:04 ] Jade Constantine > and exiled or whatnot
 [ 2011.05.13 01:48:18 ] Jade Constantine > so there isn't really a place to interact much and regrow faith etc
 [ 2011.05.13 01:49:08 ] Verone > I think that's generally due to the aggressive nature of The Fraction, not so much aggressive as in space, but more in attitude and the way the organisation is presented
 [ 2011.05.13 01:50:59 ] Jade Constantine > well I've certainly been guilty of that
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:12 ] Jade Constantine > and ironically some have told me cosmo's approach isn't that much better sometimes
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:22 ] Jade Constantine > i think it was a trap
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:27 ] Jade Constantine > we fell into
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:31 ] Jade Constantine > arguing every case
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:38 ] Jade Constantine > and debating every thread
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:44 ] Jade Constantine > and raising to all bait
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:50 ] Verone > Yeah, that's part of the issue I think
 [ 2011.05.13 01:51:51 ] Jade Constantine > it gets a bit much
 [ 2011.05.13 01:52:04 ] Verone > I mean, in retrospect, we get baited a lot like that too
 [ 2011.05.13 01:52:21 ] Verone > the difference is that 9/10 times we just don't rise to it, unless it's something that really does need addressing
 [ 2011.05.13 01:52:35 ] Verone > and then it's generally one post, with the facts, and that's the end of it
 [ 2011.05.13 01:53:37 ] Jade Constantine > I mean
 [ 2011.05.13 01:53:45 ] Jade Constantine > I began to try to change my style
 [ 2011.05.13 01:53:48 ] Jade Constantine > lasy year
 [ 2011.05.13 01:53:59 ] Jade Constantine > when I resolved to ignore Merd
 [ 2011.05.13 01:54:08 ] Jade Constantine > and not get into the cut and paste matches
 [ 2011.05.13 01:54:27 ] Jade Constantine > but still can be difficult when people come for trolling etc
 [ 2011.05.13 01:54:34 ] Jade Constantine > but I try to mostly ignore that now
 [ 2011.05.13 01:54:47 ] Verone > I think ignoring anyone, or the situation is generally counterproductive. Shutting down to someone just alienates them further, i've found
 [ 2011.05.13 01:55:51 ] Jade Constantine > but I mean how to deal with somebody like Merd?
 [ 2011.05.13 01:56:03 ] Verone > don't rise to him, its' that simple
 [ 2011.05.13 01:56:14 ] Jade Constantine > I have to be honest and say that kind of repetitive rhetoric debate just bores me rigid
 [ 2011.05.13 01:56:44 ] Jade Constantine > Thats why I told him on backstage or such I didn't really like that kind of rp
 [ 2011.05.13 01:56:50 ] Verone > best case, he backs off and realises you don't want to rumble, worst case he shuts you out
 [ 2011.05.13 01:58:38 ] Jade Constantine > yeah I guess so
 [ 2011.05.13 01:59:04 ] Jade Constantine > I think the deeper issue is probably interaction with the ooc rp community though
 [ 2011.05.13 01:59:23 ] Jade Constantine > I've tried to be pretty friendly and unflamy on backstage for the last six months
 [ 2011.05.13 01:59:24 ] Verone > in the end all it is, is a matter of changing people's perception, which isn't an easy task after so long
 [ 2011.05.13 01:59:45 ] Verone > oh, that's been noticed, but in the same respect people are just waiting for it to flare up again
 [ 2011.05.13 02:01:20 ] Verone > it's a tricky situation, but there's definately a way out of it
 [ 2011.05.13 02:01:39 ] Jade Constantine > well I'd ask you to trust me, I think its unlikely to flare up again
 [ 2011.05.13 02:01:56 ] Jade Constantine > I've mellowed, and a lot of the explosive points are probably long gone
 [ 2011.05.13 02:02:41 ] Verone > i tend to agree on those points, and in all honesty, trust really isn't an issue. I have trust for people until they prove me wrong.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:03:39 ] Verone > The only issue I see is that Jericho is coming up on eight years of operation, almost a decade, and a lot of this has been stewing since the beginning.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:03:58 ] Verone > it's a tall order, but I certainly think it can be done
 [ 2011.05.13 02:04:13 ] Jade Constantine > well jericho and sf have really spawned many many offshoots
 [ 2011.05.13 02:04:17 ] Jade Constantine > the irony in some ways
 [ 2011.05.13 02:04:32 ] Jade Constantine > is that much of the hostility that we still are credited with
 [ 2011.05.13 02:04:40 ] Jade Constantine > was created when we had the stim guys in our alliance
 [ 2011.05.13 02:04:54 ] Jade Constantine > and had that more aggressive attitute of "we're better than you"
 [ 2011.05.13 02:05:05 ] Jade Constantine > circa mito war and the amarrian war cycle
 [ 2011.05.13 02:05:23 ] Jade Constantine > but we honestly tried to move on from that when stim split off
 [ 2011.05.13 02:05:46 ] Verone > Oh, I could see that
 [ 2011.05.13 02:06:06 ] Verone > still, from working so closely with Stimulus, I could see the animosity was, and still is there.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:07:54 ] Jade Constantine > well I honestly don't know how to resolve that at this point
 [ 2011.05.13 02:08:09 ] Jade Constantine > nobody in our alliance still has any axe to grind
 [ 2011.05.13 02:08:18 ] Jade Constantine > rote is just another alliance really
 [ 2011.05.13 02:08:40 ] Jade Constantine > from what people tell me
 [ 2011.05.13 02:08:58 ] Jade Constantine > the problem with stim is that sakura nihil feels that we insulted him by not disbanding
 [ 2011.05.13 02:09:10 ] Jade Constantine > but not sure what I can do about that
 [ 2011.05.13 02:09:17 ] Verone > I can talk to Bacch and Sakura directly about that, it's not a problem. We're very good friends.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:09:45 ] Jade Constantine > well it can't hurt
 [ 2011.05.13 02:09:48 ] Jade Constantine > end of the day
 [ 2011.05.13 02:09:59 ] Jade Constantine > we are not in any way shape or form a competitior to rote
 [ 2011.05.13 02:10:13 ] Jade Constantine > entirely different organization with different recruiting standards and levels
 [ 2011.05.13 02:10:14 ] Verone > well the way i see it is that the situation can't really be any worse between you two, so it's worth a shot
 [ 2011.05.13 02:10:23 ] Jade Constantine > and a much much less serious approach to pvp
 [ 2011.05.13 02:10:39 ] Jade Constantine > I get they love the hardcore professional thing
 [ 2011.05.13 02:10:50 ] Jade Constantine > we're obviously a lot more amateur
 [ 2011.05.13 02:10:52 ] Verone > I tend to agree, that was my main worry working with Rote. We're far more casual about how we PvP.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:10:55 ] Jade Constantine > but so is most of eve
 [ 2011.05.13 02:11:56 ] Jade Constantine > its funny really
 [ 2011.05.13 02:11:59 ] Jade Constantine > there was a moment
 [ 2011.05.13 02:12:03 ] Jade Constantine > I think last weekend
 [ 2011.05.13 02:12:10 ] Jade Constantine > when we shot up a rote raven
 [ 2011.05.13 02:12:18 ] Jade Constantine > while fighting soter
 [ 2011.05.13 02:12:26 ] Jade Constantine > and for a moment I was pretty pleased about it
 [ 2011.05.13 02:12:34 ] Jade Constantine > then 30 mins later
 [ 2011.05.13 02:12:42 ] Jade Constantine > Sakura came with a revenge gang
 [ 2011.05.13 02:12:57 ] Jade Constantine > and pelille was turned into vile hatred smacktalk city
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:03 ] Jade Constantine > fag this fag that
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:17 ] Jade Constantine > swearing and asci penis posting etc
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:25 ] Jade Constantine > and I kinda felt
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:41 ] Jade Constantine > .... i'm too old for this shit
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:46 ] Jade Constantine > not interested
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:49 ] Jade Constantine > in fighting that
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:52 ] Verone > i get that feeling every day
 [ 2011.05.13 02:13:54 ] Verone > lol
 [ 2011.05.13 02:14:07 ] Jade Constantine > its just not worth the stress
 [ 2011.05.13 02:14:16 ] Jade Constantine > i sensed
 [ 2011.05.13 02:14:19 ] Jade Constantine > the raw hatred
 [ 2011.05.13 02:14:33 ] Jade Constantine > and I honestly don't want to play games against people who hate me
 [ 2011.05.13 02:14:45 ] Jade Constantine > i can't see the benefit
 [ 2011.05.13 02:14:49 ] Jade Constantine > does that make sense?
 [ 2011.05.13 02:15:27 ] Verone > of course, i can understand it fully
 [ 2011.05.13 02:15:40 ] Verone > Thankfully I have just a select few who really do despise me
 [ 2011.05.13 02:17:03 ] Jade Constantine > yeah
 [ 2011.05.13 02:17:17 ] Jade Constantine > funnily enough I think again I inherited other people's feuds there
 [ 2011.05.13 02:17:33 ] Jade Constantine > revan putting mercs on rote or whatnot years ago
 [ 2011.05.13 02:17:59 ] Verone > well, yeah. Revan generally doesn't help the situation, no offence intended given your ties to her.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:18:26 ] Jade Constantine > well she plays a different game and approach to diplomacy for sure
 [ 2011.05.13 02:18:40 ] Jade Constantine > and relishes the dislike generated in a way I never really do
 [ 2011.05.13 02:18:51 ] Verone > i've noticed
 [ 2011.05.13 02:18:59 ] Verone > ah, i've never had an issue with her personally
 [ 2011.05.13 02:19:13 ] Verone > she's midly vexed me a few times, but that's about it
 [ 2011.05.13 02:19:25 ] Jade Constantine > few do who talk to her to be honest, she is very charming in person
 [ 2011.05.13 02:19:34 ] Jade Constantine > but her character can be maddening
 [ 2011.05.13 02:20:16 ] Verone > lol yeah, more than a few people have said it
 [ 2011.05.13 02:20:49 ] Jade Constantine > that said she's giving eve a break again now
 [ 2011.05.13 02:20:55 ] Jade Constantine > doing a university thing
 [ 2011.05.13 02:21:08 ] Verone > probably a good idea for a while, if you're wanting to repair things
 [ 2011.05.13 02:21:13 ] Verone > she can be quite the catalyst
 [ 2011.05.13 02:21:36 ] Jade Constantine > yeah thats true
 [ 2011.05.13 02:21:57 ] Jade Constantine > got to say she always did dislike jade doing any kind of diplomacy with anyone
 [ 2011.05.13 02:22:40 ] Jade Constantine > thinking back on it last year was pretty damned crazy all round
 [ 2011.05.13 02:23:14 ] Jade Constantine > what with the providence campaign and us having tomahawk bliss in the alliance and he and revan intriguing all the time at cross purposes to the rest of us
 [ 2011.05.13 02:24:02 ] Verone > yeah, tomahawk can also be somewhat of a catalyst at times too
 [ 2011.05.13 02:24:14 ] Jade Constantine > well he was a bit of a nightmare tbh
 [ 2011.05.13 02:24:26 ] Jade Constantine > we had 2 months of fighting about the management of the alliance internally
 [ 2011.05.13 02:24:28 ] Verone > i think he's the person i've locked horns most savagely with in JF
 [ 2011.05.13 02:24:52 ] Jade Constantine > then he decided to try to rip it to pieces because i wouldn't give him the keys to the alliance in an executor corp
 [ 2011.05.13 02:24:58 ] Verone > Yeah, i heard about the infighting, and the issues back then
 [ 2011.05.13 02:26:14 ] Jade Constantine > yeah it spelled the end of icarus and dx4 unfortunately
 [ 2011.05.13 02:26:21 ] Jade Constantine > and stand
 [ 2011.05.13 02:26:42 ] Jade Constantine > I guess you noticed his final blows in the PL forum leaks as well?
 [ 2011.05.13 02:26:49 ] Verone > heh
 [ 2011.05.13 02:26:51 ] Verone >
 [ 2011.05.13 02:26:59 ] Verone > i generally don't miss a great deal of things
 [ 2011.05.13 02:27:08 ] Jade Constantine > bizarre really
 [ 2011.05.13 02:27:18 ] Jade Constantine > tbh we were lucky to come out of that with an alliance at all
 [ 2011.05.13 02:28:44 ] Verone > yeah, it's generally a close  call when you have issues that large
 [ 2011.05.13 02:29:54 ] Verone > i'm kind of trying to brainstorm and think of ways we can look at this
 [ 2011.05.13 02:31:31 ] Jade Constantine > cool, I mean basically I'd like to resolve all kinds of ooc stress really and bury the hatchet on an ooc level with everyone eventually
 [ 2011.05.13 02:34:51 ] Verone > i'm actually talking to bacch a little now, since we're out in syndicate with them
 [ 2011.05.13 02:34:55 ] Verone > and he's very receptive
 [ 2011.05.13 02:35:27 ] Jade Constantine > good stuff
 [ 2011.05.13 02:36:07 ] Jade Constantine > despite our parting of the ways, he was always a good comrade to have in a fleet thats for sure
 [ 2011.05.13 02:37:52 ] Verone > i tend to agree, it's just a case of how we can approach the situation and what exactly you're looking for in terms of a resolution with everyone
 [ 2011.05.13 02:38:52 ] Jade Constantine > well from my point of view
 [ 2011.05.13 02:39:08 ] Jade Constantine > I'd like an end to the ooc hatred and narkiness as widely as possible
 [ 2011.05.13 02:39:33 ] Jade Constantine > with the pledge that I will do my level best to avoid it and prevent that stuff happening from our end also
 [ 2011.05.13 02:39:49 ] Jade Constantine > I'd also like some bridges rebuild with the wider rp community
 [ 2011.05.13 02:40:15 ] Jade Constantine > and basically reduce the alienation / exiled status of the Fraction on an ooc level certainly
 [ 2011.05.13 02:40:36 ] Jade Constantine > quid pro quo on that
 [ 2011.05.13 02:40:50 ] Jade Constantine > is that we've a decent group of helpful, mature, players
 [ 2011.05.13 02:40:56 ] Jade Constantine > who are actually good fun to interact with
 [ 2011.05.13 02:41:29 ] Jade Constantine > and its a shame really for the perception that the rp community is somehow a minor elitest clique to turn them off
 [ 2011.05.13 02:44:50 ] Verone > well, i'm kind of trying to think of how i can put this without sounding like a cock
 [ 2011.05.13 02:44:52 ] Verone > hahaha
 [ 2011.05.13 02:45:41 ] Verone > i've been talking to bacch just there, and he may contact you to talk, soon enough, potentially atan too, depending on how they feel about things. in all honesty, bacch doesn't really seem to have an issue with you
 [ 2011.05.13 02:46:25 ] Jade Constantine > yeah I never really felt he would
 [ 2011.05.13 02:46:33 ] Verone > i'm unsure of how to put this, so i'll just use my direct fashion, because i'm pretty much at a loss, and generally my diplomacy involved a Neutron Blaster Cannon II, in all honesty.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:47:57 ] Verone > coming from a third party, and someone who's generally just watched the vast majority of these feuds in the past, the general consensus of the RP community seems to be that SF consider themselves on a higher plane, intellectually....
 [ 2011.05.13 02:48:32 ] Verone > ... than the vast majority of the rest of eve's RP circle. In short, people seem to consider the attitude that SF has as heavily elitist
 [ 2011.05.13 02:48:44 ] Jade Constantine > its ironic isn't it
 [ 2011.05.13 02:49:02 ] Jade Constantine > that both sides tend to see themselves as being the victims of intellectual elitism
 [ 2011.05.13 02:49:03 ] Verone > it is yeah, but, whether you agree with that assessment or not personally, that's how most people's perception is
 [ 2011.05.13 02:49:17 ] Jade Constantine > I do understand why it gets that way
 [ 2011.05.13 02:49:22 ] Jade Constantine > or looks it
 [ 2011.05.13 02:49:28 ] Jade Constantine > And as I said
 [ 2011.05.13 02:49:38 ] Jade Constantine > neither I nor cosmo do ourselves many favours
 [ 2011.05.13 02:49:44 ] Jade Constantine > with our forum tactics sometimes
 [ 2011.05.13 02:50:12 ] Jade Constantine > I'm pretty rhetorically overwhelming while cos is a logical monster
 [ 2011.05.13 02:50:16 ] Verone > I agree completely, but believe me when i say, that there's still a lot of respect buried deep down for Star Fraction, given the length of time the corporation has been around, and the length of time that JF/SF has been involved with the RP community
 [ 2011.05.13 02:50:36 ] Jade Constantine > yeah thats what makes me wish
 [ 2011.05.13 02:50:41 ] Jade Constantine > to re-engage more
 [ 2011.05.13 02:50:48 ] Jade Constantine > in a more productive fashion
 [ 2011.05.13 02:50:56 ] Jade Constantine > I have been personally impressed
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:00 ] Jade Constantine > by backstage actually
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:04 ] Verone > regardless of the state of affairs, and what situation the corporation and alliance find themselves in, internally.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:05 ] Jade Constantine > I was hugely cynical
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:20 ] Jade Constantine > of that forum given the people involved in the management etc
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:26 ] Verone > I was too, because to be frank, chatsubo turned into an enormous shitfest.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:38 ] Jade Constantine > but I have to say that place and the more or less even handed moderation
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:43 ] Jade Constantine > there
 [ 2011.05.13 02:51:50 ] Jade Constantine > made me a change a lot of my opinions
 [ 2011.05.13 02:52:05 ] Jade Constantine > and see things more openly
 [ 2011.05.13 02:52:05 ] Verone > and this an perfect example of why things to do need to change, because when you pull away the veil, there are reasonably people under there
 [ 2011.05.13 02:52:08 ] Verone > yourself included.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:52:21 ] Jade Constantine > agreed
 [ 2011.05.13 02:53:00 ] Verone > again i'm going to be direct, and i'm going to use words in the same fashion i always do, so i'll be somewhat harsh most likely
 [ 2011.05.13 02:53:35 ] Verone > i think stage one of the process needs to be for you to not only swallow your pride by coming here to me, but swallow your pride on an out of character level with the RP community.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:53:55 ] Verone > there are two sides to every story in Eve, and in this case, there's been wrong done on both sides, and people victimised on both sides.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:54:45 ] Jade Constantine > I was making quite an obvious move in that direction with my truth and reconciliation thread - though with an ic flavour
 [ 2011.05.13 02:55:09 ] Verone > Yeah, the flavour needs to turn to be out of character now. But we still have an issue
 [ 2011.05.13 02:55:29 ] Verone > and it's the TL;DR culture that  has grown around SF annoucements and posts by SF members.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:56:06 ] Jade Constantine > you mean in that people simply don't read them ?
 [ 2011.05.13 02:57:14 ] Verone > pretty much, or they skim over them, get skewed facts, and don't see the picture. Frankly, not to insult you, if you make a release to the Eve-O forums, it's going to get flamed to all hell and back with not a lot of people actually digeesting it.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:57:44 ] Jade Constantine > well I don't really think its possible to put something ooc on the eve-o forums
 [ 2011.05.13 02:57:48 ] Verone > in the same respect, to a slightly lesser degree the same is going to happen on backstage, because of previous issues with chatsubo
 [ 2011.05.13 02:58:00 ] Verone > oh god, i tend to agree, it's a shitstorm on the best of days.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:58:21 ] Jade Constantine > I'm doing my best *gently* with the change of ic mood
 [ 2011.05.13 02:58:26 ] Jade Constantine > with jade's postings
 [ 2011.05.13 02:58:38 ] Jade Constantine > and not getting into arguments with the usual trolly people
 [ 2011.05.13 02:58:39 ] Verone > i tend to agree, and i've noticed a definate change
 [ 2011.05.13 02:58:53 ] Jade Constantine > this thing with moira for example
 [ 2011.05.13 02:59:13 ] Jade Constantine > we took a full decision not to get fully involved in the too and through there
 [ 2011.05.13 02:59:25 ] Jade Constantine > and let other people have their say
 [ 2011.05.13 02:59:42 ] Verone > which was a good move.
 [ 2011.05.13 02:59:59 ] Jade Constantine > though truth be told it is a bit of a funny of war motive when you know what its about
 [ 2011.05.13 03:00:19 ] Verone > in all honesty, from an out of character perspective i'd have chosen a different path
 [ 2011.05.13 03:00:33 ] Jade Constantine > regarding the war?
 [ 2011.05.13 03:00:38 ] Verone > yep
 [ 2011.05.13 03:00:47 ] Jade Constantine > well its not actually a primary campaign for us
 [ 2011.05.13 03:00:57 ] Jade Constantine > the only reason we wardecced moira
 [ 2011.05.13 03:01:05 ] Verone > oh yeah, i can agree with that, but there's a level of animosity between the RP community and SF still.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:01:16 ] Jade Constantine > was because Julianus was trying to gcc bait our members while we were fighting pirates
 [ 2011.05.13 03:01:35 ] Verone > yeah, i'm aware of this. I hear things
 [ 2011.05.13 03:01:35 ] Jade Constantine > the irony is its there purely to stop him messing with our trainees and getting them to flag
 [ 2011.05.13 03:01:45 ] Verone > understandable
 [ 2011.05.13 03:01:54 ] Verone > What I woud suggest, if you really want to turn this around is doing something different completely for a while
 [ 2011.05.13 03:02:10 ] Jade Constantine > well tbh
 [ 2011.05.13 03:02:12 ] Verone > This is going to sound like a daft concept, but hear me out
 [ 2011.05.13 03:02:17 ] Jade Constantine > thats what we've come to placid to do
 [ 2011.05.13 03:03:22 ] Verone > Allow the fresher of the wounds to heal. Have Star Fraction sharpen its teeth outside the RP community. Select a target that isn't even involved with the RP scene, and give them a beating. Keep it an out of character war.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:03:53 ] Verone > In terms of hostile interaction, have a few months where you completely leave the RP community alone, so that there's nothing FOR people to snipe at on the IGS about
 [ 2011.05.13 03:04:08 ] Jade Constantine > that is really what we came here to do
 [ 2011.05.13 03:04:20 ] Jade Constantine > we intended to spent the majority of our time fighting the local pirates
 [ 2011.05.13 03:04:52 ] Jade Constantine > and look to rebuild some ties to parts of the rp community ... perhaps intaki separatism
 [ 2011.05.13 03:04:53 ] Verone > but moira are an RP entity, and that's where the attention comes from.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:05:13 ] Jade Constantine > yeah thats unfortunate in a way
 [ 2011.05.13 03:05:14 ] Verone > before you can do that, the OOC animosity needs to cool off
 [ 2011.05.13 03:05:22 ] Jade Constantine > but they were getting in the way of our pirate hunting
 [ 2011.05.13 03:05:34 ] Verone > and I know how we can fix that, the RP community and SF just need the breathing space in the meantime
 [ 2011.05.13 03:06:00 ] Jade Constantine > its possible moira could get themselves out of the war if they pledge not to mess with our general operations etc
 [ 2011.05.13 03:06:18 ] Jade Constantine > we had absolutely no interest in shooting them before they provoked etc
 [ 2011.05.13 03:06:52 ] Verone > I'll speak to Soter, again, i speak with him quite a bit
 [ 2011.05.13 03:07:13 ] Jade Constantine > it is another strange irony really
 [ 2011.05.13 03:07:18 ] Jade Constantine > that they are anti pirates
 [ 2011.05.13 03:07:22 ] Jade Constantine > and we're shooting pirates
 [ 2011.05.13 03:07:38 ] Jade Constantine > and wardeccing each other because we're getting in the way of each other shooting pirates
 [ 2011.05.13 03:07:45 ] Jade Constantine > on one level you have to laugh
 [ 2011.05.13 03:08:09 ] Verone > well, I can play the IC angle with Soter
 [ 2011.05.13 03:08:14 ] Verone > since i'm a Moira. shareholder
 [ 2011.05.13 03:08:40 ] Jade Constantine > how does that work given their anti pirate roleplay?
 [ 2011.05.13 03:09:32 ] Verone > I'll speak with him, he agrees to remain neutral and cut hostilities with you, allowing you to pirate hunt, in return, you drop the war declaration and go about your business, and the two entities leave eachother alone.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:10:13 ] Verone > the conflict can come to a mutual close, and I can make an announcement regarding it, as a broker between the two entities and a Moira shareholder. Because lets face, it sooner or later that black bottom line may turn red.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:10:33 ] Jade Constantine > yeah its a strange war really
 [ 2011.05.13 03:10:42 ] Verone > i can do that no issue
 [ 2011.05.13 03:11:03 ] Jade Constantine > moira are keeping their head above water k/d ratio wise but at the cost of not being able to operate at all
 [ 2011.05.13 03:11:13 ] Verone > and organise an IC meeting to resolve the problem between the pair of you IC, without firing a shot.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:11:22 ] Verone > that's not a problem at all
 [ 2011.05.13 03:12:09 ] Jade Constantine > well will be interesting certainly, I don't mind addressing IC to Soter what the reason for the war is ... I have the impression he doesn't yet realize
 [ 2011.05.13 03:12:45 ] Verone > well, i'm sure that IC i can broker a deal so long as both parties are receptive.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:13:45 ] Jade Constantine > well we can certainly do a meeting and discussion
 [ 2011.05.13 03:13:45 ] Verone > so, if you're interested in me assisting helping turn things around, I have somewhat of a game plan.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:14:15 ] Jade Constantine > on another note
 [ 2011.05.13 03:14:25 ] Jade Constantine > is the in game ooc channel still used ?
 [ 2011.05.13 03:14:33 ] Verone > yeah, it's still used
 [ 2011.05.13 03:14:48 ] Jade Constantine > I think i've been banned from that for years
 [ 2011.05.13 03:14:56 ] Jade Constantine > who runs it now days ?
 [ 2011.05.13 03:15:00 ] Verone > i can fix that without issue
 [ 2011.05.13 03:15:15 ] Verone > i'm not a moderator, but i'm well aware of quite a few of them and i can speak with them
 [ 2011.05.13 03:15:21 ] Jade Constantine > yeah that would be good actually
 [ 2011.05.13 03:15:59 ] Jade Constantine > I would like to advise a bunch of our people with an interest in rp
 [ 2011.05.13 03:16:08 ] Jade Constantine > to use that channel and introduce themselves to people
 [ 2011.05.13 03:16:20 ] Jade Constantine > it can't hurt to build some bridges
 [ 2011.05.13 03:16:26 ] Verone > i tend to agree
 [ 2011.05.13 03:16:54 ] Verone > so, I'll put forward the idea that I have in terms of how we can change the situation, and see what you think.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:17:51 ] Jade Constantine > right o
 [ 2011.05.13 03:17:57 ] Verone > Firstly, i'll talk to soter out of character and explain the situation, he's a good friend of mine. From there I'll organise an IC meeting with Ethan as a medium for talks on the end of hostilities. This will involve BOTH parties swallowing pride.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:19:01 ] Verone > from there, pending success, SF will need to back off from hostile RP for a number of months while we work on the situation. Go wardec some non-RP corp and train your new guys in highsec, or take a jaunt to non PR nullsec
 [ 2011.05.13 03:19:11 ] Verone > whatever works, just keep distance from RP community hostility
 [ 2011.05.13 03:19:22 ] Verone > When the issue with the moira war is complete
 [ 2011.05.13 03:19:51 ] Verone > given the fact that the TL;DR culture is there, and is ingrained in the community, i'll make a call on backstage, to everyone.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:20:30 ] Verone > i'll directly address the issue, and detail the problem, we'll take the bull by the horns, because as arrogant as it might sound, I know that people will read what I write.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:21:24 ] Verone > whether they choose to act on it, is their own call, but it'll be presented in a manner in which they will pretty much have to do so, or they're putting their own neck on the block, so to speak
 [ 2011.05.13 03:22:09 ] Jade Constantine > well I think its a good idea, the ooc needle and feuding really helps nobody at this point
 [ 2011.05.13 03:22:10 ] Verone > meanwhile, i think the Stim issue will be discussed, and bacch and atan may contact you, or i'll speak with them further, the stim issue really is one of the ugliest heads of the hydra so to speak, in the situation.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:22:18 ] Verone > i tend to agree
 [ 2011.05.13 03:22:30 ] Jade Constantine > yeah the stim stuff would be good tp put to bed
 [ 2011.05.13 03:22:42 ] Verone > and in all honesty, i've got no issue with helping out, because the RP community really does need to be kicked in the arse and united
 [ 2011.05.13 03:22:49 ] Verone > there's a lot of potential going to waste
 [ 2011.05.13 03:23:02 ] Jade Constantine > its always been a bit ridiculous having ideologically similar people being massively opposed due to ancient ooc feuds
 [ 2011.05.13 03:23:04 ] Jade Constantine > and yes
 [ 2011.05.13 03:23:12 ] Jade Constantine > the rp community being opposed and hating each other
 [ 2011.05.13 03:23:15 ] Jade Constantine > is silly
 [ 2011.05.13 03:23:35 ] Jade Constantine > when there are other corrosive aspects of the community we really should be united in the face of
 [ 2011.05.13 03:23:47 ] Verone > i completely agree
 [ 2011.05.13 03:24:07 ] Jade Constantine > I think us old time eve addicts do need a bit of solidarity
 [ 2011.05.13 03:24:33 ] Verone > i agree completely
 [ 2011.05.13 03:24:40 ] Verone > it feels like i've been here forever, frankly.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:25:04 ] Jade Constantine > its incredible sometimes ... heh, my character is so old
 [ 2011.05.13 03:25:37 ] Verone > hell of an employment history roo
 [ 2011.05.13 03:25:39 ] Verone > too*
 [ 2011.05.13 03:25:53 ] Jade Constantine > though I do feel renewed a bit by the lovely new portrait
 [ 2011.05.13 03:26:02 ] Verone > haha
 [ 2011.05.13 03:26:10 ] Verone > don't even talk to me about this damned mohawk.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:26:36 ] Jade Constantine > you'll need for walking in stations hairdressers
 [ 2011.05.13 03:26:49 ] Verone > yeah, that's one of the first trips i'll be making.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:27:01 ] Verone > back to the situation at hand though
 [ 2011.05.13 03:27:20 ] Jade Constantine > whereas I'm sure I'll be blowing billions on some exotic kimono
 [ 2011.05.13 03:28:10 ] Verone > i'm working the next three nights after tonight, 18:00-06:00 eve time, meaning i finish on monday morning, 06:00. I'll try to catch soter over these three days, and speak to him ooc
 [ 2011.05.13 03:28:31 ] Verone > that'll be with a view to organising an IC meeting for monday or tuesday, and explaining the situation to him.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:28:56 ] Jade Constantine > okay
 [ 2011.05.13 03:29:09 ] Verone > once we get the moira situation levelled, that's where you come in, by taking SF on it's little jaunt, at the same time I'll prepare a rather lengthly and detailed appraisal of the situation for Backstage
 [ 2011.05.13 03:29:22 ] Verone > I'll have it put in the MOTD of every ooc channel i know of, once it's up and posted
 [ 2011.05.13 03:29:27 ] Verone > so that's it's heavily visible.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:30:04 ] Jade Constantine > well fortunately we're in the ideal place for what we came here for - fighting pirates in placid - ost is a lovely base
 [ 2011.05.13 03:30:10 ] Verone > and from there we'll guage the community's reaction, if anyone wants to turn it into a slagging match, i'll have them put down so hard by backstage's mods that when they wake up their clothes will be out of style.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:30:18 ] Jade Constantine > heh
 [ 2011.05.13 03:30:52 ] Verone > ironically i've ever had need to use the contact i have with so many members of the rp community
 [ 2011.05.13 03:31:06 ] Verone > but i think this is a very worthwhile cause and we can do a lot of good.
 [ 2011.05.13 03:31:17 ] Jade Constantine > well fingers crossed it will cause some genuine good
 [ 2011.05.13 03:31:26 ] Verone > oh, i think it will
 [ 2011.05.13 03:31:36 ] Verone > i have no fucking idea why people listen to me, but they do
 [ 2011.05.13 03:32:46 ] Jade Constantine > well people have to listen to somebody
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:13 ] Verone > yeah, i guess so
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:14 ] Verone >
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:28 ] Verone > i think that's how we should proceed
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:36 ] Jade Constantine > you will ask about the ooc banning situation too .. and let me know if you can do anything about that over the weekend ?
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:46 ] Verone > yeah, I will do
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:50 ] Jade Constantine > thank you
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:54 ] Jade Constantine > so yep
 [ 2011.05.13 03:33:58 ] Jade Constantine > I think its a decent plan
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:16 ] Verone > excellent, hopefully i'll speak to soter over the next few days, he's late US timezone
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:21 ] Verone > so i might catch him after work
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:29 ] Jade Constantine > yeah i must confess
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:33 ] Jade Constantine > his timezone baffles me
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:37 ] Verone > i've already dropped him a mail
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:39 ] Verone > he's like me
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:40 ] Jade Constantine > he plays from after dt
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:44 ] Verone > he's all over the bloody place
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:50 ] Jade Constantine > to random times in the ustz
 [ 2011.05.13 03:34:58 ] Verone > yeah, haha
 [ 2011.05.13 03:35:40 ] Verone > it's pretty crazy, i see him on before a 12 hour shift, and after sometimes
 [ 2011.05.13 03:35:57 ] Jade Constantine > again thats an odd one
 [ 2011.05.13 03:36:01 ] Jade Constantine > the soter business
 [ 2011.05.13 03:36:13 ] Jade Constantine > i have no real idea why he took against us
 [ 2011.05.13 03:36:23 ] Jade Constantine > unless was the rote membership he had for a bit
 [ 2011.05.13 03:36:37 ] Verone > it's just the way things are, and the rote membership may have had something to do with it
 [ 2011.05.13 03:36:41 ] Verone > but that's easily stamped out
 [ 2011.05.13 03:37:01 ] Jade Constantine > yeah its baffling though really
 [ 2011.05.13 03:37:09 ] Jade Constantine > I guess i have a wierd take on these things
 [ 2011.05.13 03:37:39 ] Jade Constantine > could never understand the dislike for another organization that is "rubbish" at pvp
 [ 2011.05.13 03:37:42 ] Jade Constantine > personally
 [ 2011.05.13 03:37:50 ] Jade Constantine > I love rubbish pvp outfits
 [ 2011.05.13 03:37:54 ] Jade Constantine > they give good fights
 [ 2011.05.13 03:38:05 ] Verone > i think the hostility grew from there and got personal
 [ 2011.05.13 03:38:14 ] Verone > which can be fixed, it'll just take time
 [ 2011.05.13 03:38:30 ] Jade Constantine > yep fingers crossed
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:08 ] Jade Constantine > you noticed we decided not to assassinate John Revenent this year btw?
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:22 ] Verone > good call
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:33 ] Verone > Veto Corp were asked to speak there, but decided to boycott the whole thing
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:36 ] Jade Constantine > well to be honest
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:38 ] Verone > given the presence of the Amarr
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:45 ] Jade Constantine > I think I-RED have changed a bit over the year
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:54 ] Jade Constantine > with their experience with the amarr bloc
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:56 ] Jade Constantine > and its reasonable
 [ 2011.05.13 03:39:59 ] Jade Constantine > to respect that
 [ 2011.05.13 03:40:04 ] Jade Constantine > in our choices now
 [ 2011.05.13 03:40:14 ] Jade Constantine > need to be dynamic rather than dogmatic
 [ 2011.05.13 03:40:18 ] Verone > oh I agree, but in character, Ethan is a terrible racist, even though he won't admit it
 [ 2011.05.13 03:40:31 ] Jade Constantine > well
 [ 2011.05.13 03:40:42 ] Verone > he hates the Amarr, haha, or rather those loyal to the faith
 [ 2011.05.13 03:40:45 ] Jade Constantine > I couldn't not say something about archie wanting a sermon
 [ 2011.05.13 03:40:58 ] Jade Constantine > at the memorial for an anti slavery hero
 [ 2011.05.13 03:41:03 ] Jade Constantine > lol tbh
 [ 2011.05.13 03:42:13 ] Verone > hence me making our mail to revenent public
 [ 2011.05.13 03:42:19 ] Verone > i figured it was the best way to do it
 [ 2011.05.13 03:42:51 ] Jade Constantine > yeah it wasn't bad at all
 [ 2011.05.13 03:43:30 ] Jade Constantine > anyways I'll let you get on mate, thank you very much for your help and look forward to hearing on the progress ... thanks again!
 [ 2011.05.13 03:43:43 ] Verone > not a problem, i'll keep you posted
 [ 2011.05.13 03:44:03 ] Jade Constantine > ta ta for now

[Verone]

Jade, for reference :

Apologies to claire xxx for revealing his name, but please don't effectively brand me a liar when you're not in full possession of the facts.

[Jade Constantine]

Jade, for reference :

Apologies to claire xxx for revealing his name, but please don't effectively brand me a liar when you're not in full possession of the facts.

I did not brand you a liar, I said I didn't believe the initial claim you made without evidence.

You have now presented evidence and I am prepared to accept it.

[Jade Constantine]

The broader point (and I'd invite anyone interested to have a good read of the chat log in question to assess the intentions and such) is well ?

So what?

I don't believe there is any suggestion that anyone has actually behaved terribly wrongly here.
(If anybody disagrees by all means speak up)

I asked for some help resolving ooc issues - and Verone in turn placed a rider on that request that ceasefire with moira should be put before the star fraction members as part of the arrangement.

I passed on that request (and terms) and the Star Fraction membership refused them (due largely to in space involvement of veto vessels defending moira assets.

We are now at war. I don't really see the problem or drama.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

I guess what I'm trying to figure out from reading this is how Jade's ooc reputation has anything to do with this war, and why posts on the summit would hurt his rep with the 'rp circle'. And what circle is this, anyway?

[Saede Riordan]

I guess what I'm trying to figure out from reading this is how Jade's ooc reputation has anything to do with this war, and why posts on the summit would hurt his rep with the 'rp circle'. And what circle is this, anyway?

If you have to ask...