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[Seriphyn]

Amarr ship designs incorporate more automation than many outsiders assume due to the sheer size of their fleets and their wide distribution across the Empire. While the Amarr military has legions of personnel, the vastness of the Empire and the requirements of the Navy mean that automation is essential, even on ships where there are complementary slave contingents.

Caldari vessels are noted for their advanced technology, but many overlook the fact that, with respect to crew complements, the Caldari Navy and corporate security forces are rather old-fashioned. Caldari society is highly militarized, and this, together with the relatively small size of their fleets compared to the other empires, has meant that they have never been under pressure of crew shortages. As a consequence, crew-substitute automatic systems are less in evidence in typical Caldari designs.

The Gallente Federation may have a large population but the average citizen is not inclined to join the Federal military. Moreover, the pressures of the first Caldari-Gallente War led the Federation to invest heavily in automation and military drones. This tendency has continued ever since, and the Gallente Navy has always ensured that their vessels are highly automated so as to allow them maximum use of their relatively tight personnel pool.

The Minmatar have never suffered from lack of numbers, even while so many of their brothers and sisters are enslaved by the Amarr or living in the Gallente Federation. Their excellence lies in mechanical devices but less so in automated systems. As a result, the Minmatar use large numbers of crew on their vessels. Some of the more advanced designs may be less rigid in this regard, but nearly any Minmatar ship will seem crowded compared to its contemporaries of other empires.

I'm writing what I find to be a very exciting guide to roles and ranks in the Caldari Navy, and I hope to do one for the Federation and Amarr ones too. I was thinking, from the above, on the division of officers and crew, and what they do, onboard EVE ships.

If Caldari ships are old-fashioned in terms of structure, and have a low level of automation (Minmatar too probably), then they are likely to resemble a modern-day warship, that is, having individual crewmembers maintaining deck operations (loading guns, damage control etc.) and operating the warfare systems at the ship's combat information center. They will have a cabal of officers overlooking them.

However, if the Federation Navy is more automated, then it may have more in common with the Star Trek way of doing things, that is, a greater focus on officers than crewmen. For example, IRL navies, there is no such thing as a "Communications Officer", but comms technicians instead. Weapon systems are operated by a crew of enlisted personnel and so on. However, the Feds may have a single officer trained to oversee a certain system (Tactical or Gunnery Officer for weapons, for example), and see that all things are running smoothly, and operate them on the deck officer's command. In addition, as opposed to having multiple engineering officers for, say, astronautics and weapons, they might just have one.

For the Amarr...how many of the general crew are going to be slaves, and how many are going to be professional? The officers in charge are obviously going to be professional, and likely to be exclusively True Amarr...I think that is a debate for Lou's thread.

[Saana]

On Amarr: The Imperial Navy is one of the most egalitarian institutions in the Empire - for example, enlisting is one of the ways a Ni-Kunni can escape poverty (Navy Veterans being one Ni-Kunni ancestry). Of course, this doesn't mean equal opportunity for all, but it does mean that they are a lot more meritocratic than most organizations in the Empire.

In general: Are you trying to base ranks on dog tags or FW ranks, or police ranks, or something else altogether?

[Lyn Farel]

I think these links can be usefull :

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_Navy_%28NPC_corporation%29

Looks like the imperial navy is very egalitarian. It is stated that even minmatar people can get promoted to valuable positions. How far can they go though, no idea.

They also act as primary ambassadors for the Empire when they first meet another culture.

Honestly this makes me think to the Turian navy in the mass effect codex, when the navy is the way for everyone to ascend the social ladder and become a citizen. It also rings a bell to me related to the old Roman Empire and the SPQR military.


Note : I probably said it in another thread, but you may also want to look at the ingame item "Amarr Marine Counter-Boarding Team/Company" :

Amarr Marine Counter-Boarding Teams are regarded as among the most elite units of their type across all four races. This expertise was developed not long after other states rediscovered warp technology. It occurred to senior Amarr military leaders that wars of the future would include ship-to-ship actions in space, to include the possibility of an enemy ship boarding another, as they had in millennia past when their ancestors sailed warships on the high seas. To that end, boarding and counterboarding training became a mandatory part of every Amarr marine’s advanced infantry training. The development of this capability led to the development of highly-specialized equipment for use in “boarding ops,” to include manportable high-speed welding gear, outer hatchway breaching explosives, and personal weapons for close quarters combat.

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http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gallente_Navy

The Federation Navy has seen better days, since the end of the war with the Caldari and the thawing in relations with the Amarrians the budget for the Navy has been slashed severely. It still relies on its drone armada to defeat opponents, but ship wise the Federal Navy is lacking.

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http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Republic_Fleet

The Republic Fleet was formed from the surviving elements of the rebel fleet after the Minmatar Rebellion. Though it has not the same access to advanced weaponry or hi-tech equipment as the fleets of the other empires, it more than makes up for this with fierce spirit and clever battle tactics.

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http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Caldari_Navy

The Caldari Navy is smaller in personnel and total ships than both the Federation Navy and the Amarr Navy, yet they have more battleships than any other fleet and the average age of the Caldari ships is considerably less. This is because the Caldari are constantly replacing their oldest ships with newer ones, with better hi-tech equipment. The strategic doctrine of the Caldari Navy is simple: to be able to defeat any other navy in the world. Most experts believe it is.

[Seriphyn]

In general: Are you trying to base ranks on dog tags or FW ranks, or police ranks, or something else altogether?

I had a look, and saw a frigate which is called "Caldari Navy Captain 3rd Rank". I looked it up, and am using the Russian Navy ranks. I think its a bit unoriginal that all navies seem to follow the generic Lt, Ltcdr, cdr, capt, radm etc. format, so figured I'd pick something different. It's the little things adopted from RL that CCP doesn't use their noggin for, like how rear admiral was formed from being at the "rear" of a fleet. For enlisted rank, I had Crewman, Senior Crewman, Technical Chief, Senior Chief and Executive Chief. I don't think the Caldari would be in the habit of promoting flamboyantly and recklessly, so the majority can have a long prosperous career at the rank of "Crewman" (similar to the idea of how the American military has a crapload of decorations, whereas the Brits don't easily give out shinies).

[Mithfindel]

Locally we're running the cadre system (i.e. small professional army, large reserves trained by the active military). A few years back, the military decided that all of the professional soldier part should be made officers - the old Warrant Officers were formally promoted into lieutenants (middle grade - we have three), with the new officers being trained as different grades of lieutenants. Only NCOs left were enlisted contract soldiers (six months to two year contract), support and technical personnel (with vocational training - a degree gets you into Engineering Officer School etc.). I think it was last year the military reactivated its NCO program.

My points? Many people want to have a career. For our military, the old change meant that the new non-cadet staff didn't really have one, and the old grizzly WOs were suddenly sharing a rank with some green cadet officers. Of course, there are different ways to do this. At least the corporate police forces - might have a rank system fixed to one's post, like the early Soviet military (I think Revolutionary French also used something similar), i.e. Crewman, possibly Senior Crewman, Missile Technician, Shift Supervisor etc. Of course, within the same title you can have different rates of pay tracked separately.

Another angle is The Caldari Navy proper likely has much common with the Federal Navy as a heritage of Caldari membership. Things like that die pretty slowly. If you have people who have grown proud to know that they're a Master Chief Petty Officer, it's not likely to go down telling they're now Ship Technician, pay grade A15D.

[Seriphyn]

The Caldari Navy having Gallente influences is very likely, but for originality, I'm making it a bit separate...also, rank title changing for Crewmen to "Specialist" or "Technician" depending on track is a good idea.

One thing I'm emphasizing when writing this is having a narrowed down amount of crew specialities...though, it still covers everything. The emphasis on functionality/streamlined as opposed to having lots of shinies and titles to hand out. I'm also thinking that, similar to the US (only nation to have it), the Fed has a "Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy" rank, given how they're a massive bureaucracy that interacts heavily with an equally large and powerful government...

As I say, "little things like that"

[Chowda]

The Caldari Navy having Gallente influences is very likely, but for originality, I'm making it a bit separate...also, rank title changing for Crewmen to "Specialist" or "Technician" depending on track is a good idea.

One thing I'm emphasizing when writing this is having a narrowed down amount of crew specialities...though, it still covers everything. The emphasis on functionality/streamlined as opposed to having lots of shinies and titles to hand out. I'm also thinking that, similar to the US (only nation to have it), the Fed has a "Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy" rank, given how they're a massive bureaucracy that interacts heavily with an equally large and powerful government...

As I say, "little things like that"

Oh crap, didn't see what this thread was all about until now.  I was on an aircraft carrier for nearly five years and fir my shore command I was an operator/instructor on a land-based submarine engine room where I worked with a lot of submariners (a whole other world).

The thing that was apparent in the nuclear community was you got respect based on what you were qualified, as opposed to other communities where rank meant everything.  Engineering Watch Supervisor is an E-7/senior E-6 watch station.  However, E-5's qualify it all the time on submarines.  E-6's should on carriers, but they usually don't unless they re-up.  But there are supervisory watch stations under that on a carrier which an E-6 billet requires because the watch sup has to travel between "boxes".  Each box has to have a permanent supervisor in that space in case something goes wrong, someone can be the man in charge at the scene.

So keep that in mind when coming up with watch manning.  Each major function of a ship needs a supervisory watch.  An officer sitting in a control room should be above them (probably the OOD, likely bypassed if there's a capsuleer), but you need a senior person specifically ready to respond and take on-scene command during a casualty.  Each subfunction would require a junior watchstander as necessary, but things like log-taking would only need to be verified as they should be automatic.  Then again, maybe Minmatar ships still take logs by pen and paper.  Regardless, I'd factor in 2-3 section watch rotation with some spares and enough for damage control teams.  

And any questions, fire away.  I have a wealth of knowledge on US Navy crew makeup.