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[Kazzzi]

Talk to a few level one Amarr agents. They will eventually give some insight as to how slaves are treated.

The ingame item slaver describes their cruelty, also this specifically states the use of force [or threat of] to control slaves.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vitoc_%28Chronicle%29

From the Theodicy chronicle:
'A normal man would have screamed at the scorching agony unleashed by the shockwhip. Instead, the slave merely picked his mining laser off the ground and switched it back on, continuing with his work as though nothing happened. The Amarrian guard, staring at the fresh wounds on the man’s back, considered delivering a second blow. A slave numbed to pain was difficult to control, and besides, replacements were due to arrive at any moment should this one perish. The Reclaiming had conquered the planet Eanna yesterday, and hundreds of thousands of repentant pagans were taken prisoner. Those heathens who refused to embrace the Faith were dealt swift justice by the Emperor’s Holy Paladins. '


As far as Roman slavery goes, in the early times, slaves were just a commodity and could be murdered on a master's whim and nobody would care, but later in the Empire, slaves eventually did have the right to file grievences against their masters.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Frankly, if we look at PF alone there's a massive disconnect in views with regard to how slaves are treated.

i.e., some sources describe slaves being physically mistreated, abused, constantly denegrated, etc...

Other sources show slaves in places of extreme trust, or working without immediate overseers lashing them every time they pause from their work, even living lives that, while inherently unequal, are not prison-camps-IN-SPACE.

Protip: You don't place people in positions of extreme trust and autonomy and simultaneously treat them like absolute shit. They develop nasty habits of sabotaging things, even performing suicidal actions (say, chucking a wrench into the reactor core or whatever) just to screw you over.

Second protip: If you are trying to religiously convert an entire subjugated race, you do not ostracize every single member of that race. You need to "make friends" with a significant percentage of that race to ever have a hope of divesting them of their initial cultural paradigm - that is, opposition to you, their captors.

Evidence from tip #1 suggests that Amarr have realised tip #2 long ago. Ergo, it's highly unlikely that the majority of a slave-crew aboard an Imperial Navy warship - if any at all - are maltreated, constantly beaten-down, etc etc.

[Mathra Hiede]

People seem to forget easily that slaves in the Empire arn't like slaves that I have ever read about.

Slaves, from the scriptures that I remember, are supposed to be brought through the Empire to better understand god, with the firm hand of the righteous Amarr guiding them untill they are ready to meet God.

It doesn't mean that slaves dont GET miss treated, but if your in a place like the Navy who have the MIO and Theology Council peering largely over your shoulder - bets on that they will at least try to do right by that.

[Seriphyn]

From the Empyrean Age political document, I thought it was pretty clear that the treatment of slaves vary from place-to-place. This doesn't surprise me; even if the objective is salvation, human nature of power and domination is going to kick in some places, and slaves will be treated like crap.

[Lyn Farel]

Talk to a few level one Amarr agents. They will eventually give some insight as to how slaves are treated.

The ingame item slaver describes their cruelty, also this specifically states the use of force [or threat of] to control slaves.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vitoc_%28Chronicle%29

From the Theodicy chronicle:
'A normal man would have screamed at the scorching agony unleashed by the shockwhip. Instead, the slave merely picked his mining laser off the ground and switched it back on, continuing with his work as though nothing happened. The Amarrian guard, staring at the fresh wounds on the man’s back, considered delivering a second blow. A slave numbed to pain was difficult to control, and besides, replacements were due to arrive at any moment should this one perish. The Reclaiming had conquered the planet Eanna yesterday, and hundreds of thousands of repentant pagans were taken prisoner. Those heathens who refused to embrace the Faith were dealt swift justice by the Emperor’s Holy Paladins. '


As far as Roman slavery goes, in the early times, slaves were just a commodity and could be murdered on a master's whim and nobody would care, but later in the Empire, slaves eventually did have the right to file grievences against their masters.

I think you are biased or mixing with your own IC views. It is not by examples that we elaborate a theory or generalities. As said above by Esna, Mathra and Seri, we have a lot of shades of grey here. This is what is interesting actually.

But yes, we still lack of precise things on this drecree about mistreatment. Because mistreatment is such a vague word...

[Kazzzi]

The cronicles describe some slaves as being treated very well, yet other chronicles describe other slaves working to death in mines. This is something that also happend historically in slaver cultures. Not all slaves are treated equally. In game as items there are conditioned house slaves, which I'm sure would fall into the former. Yet some slaves according to the PF are grown men who are convinced to work themselves to death with vitoc, force or the mere threat of force. I don't believe I am at all biased for acknowledging this. 

Religious indoctrination is another tool used by various slaver cultures including the American south. I recall even Gaven believeing the enlightenment argument to be very weak.

[Casiella]

Agreed with Kazzzzzzzi here: I see no reason to ssume that all Holders treat their slaves identically within the Empire, much less slave holders outside it. On the contrary, I recall some Chronicles indicating that those differences lead to (or result from) various political differences.

[Laerise [PIE]]

Agreed with Kazzzzzzzi here: I see no reason to ssume that all Holders treat their slaves identically within the Empire, much less slave holders outside it. On the contrary, I recall some Chronicles indicating that those differences lead to (or result from) various political differences.

While its nice that you're trying to help Kazzzi with his argument - there really is no argument.

We are pretty much all agreed that the treatment of slaves goes from awfull to normal-joe-average.

[Lyn Farel]

Agreed with Kazzzzzzzi here: I see no reason to ssume that all Holders treat their slaves identically within the Empire, much less slave holders outside it. On the contrary, I recall some Chronicles indicating that those differences lead to (or result from) various political differences.

While its nice that you're trying to help Kazzzi with his argument - there really is no argument.

We are pretty much all agreed that the treatment of slaves goes from awfull to normal-joe-average.

^this.

[Kazzzi]

We were having an argument?

Everyone agrees?

...I win! \o/

[Louella Dougans]

So, the Imperial Navy draws its slaves from a (small?) subset of the population, unlike a lot of other organisations, yes?

[Laerise [PIE]]

So, the Imperial Navy draws its slaves from a (small?) subset of the population, unlike a lot of other organisations, yes?

Unlikely - they will draw from the same 'pool/market' as the rest, although I am sure they have ways to get what they want more easily than most.

That is unless you define "slaves in the amarr empire and affiliated regions under amarrian style rule or under the rule by puppet governments loyal to the amrr empire" as, as you put it, "(small?) subset of the population".

[Louella Dougans]

I mean things like:

Suppose the slave population of Bahromab V is 1bn.
Of that, the number that is useful to the Navy is perhaps only 10m, as only a small % have the technical aptitude and socio-economic status to be useful and loyal.

Whereas other organisations would find any and all of the 1bn useful for their activities.

That sort of thing.

[Esna Pitoojee]

2 additional possibilities here:

1, there are "slave academies" that exist for the sole purpose of turning out legions of ship-service-capable slaves. They'd probably draw their students from only the most loyal slave populations, or even take in children at an extremely young age. Regardless, what they make is a ton of loyal/indoctrinated, yet also technically capable slaves.

2, aboard ships, loyal "slave officers" (possibly the product of part 1) are mixed with less well trained, more rebellious slaves. They would in turn provide a dampener on any potential disobedience (why disobey if it means another slave is just going to get punished? Not like you're helping anything, and you're hurting another slave...) and a means of instituting a command structure that the lower-level slaves can sympathize with.

[Louella Dougans]

Had a thought earlier. In one of the earlier posts, there was a link to an article about the ancient Greeks, and their use of slave armies. (Greek historians downplayed this, because of social views of the time).

Anyway, one of the things mentioned was that in wars between Greek cities, opposing forces would quite frequently try and tempt opposing slave troops to defect or desert, with the promise of freedom. E.g. City A would say to slave army belonging to City B, that if they defected or deserted, they could become (low ranking) members of City A.

So how does this relate to the Imperial Navy and the Empire?

Well, with the Heir Families, then slave navies (which the Empire as a whole does not really approve of) cannot be particularly effectively used in inter-family warfare, as the opposing House could offer freedom to the slave forces. So they have to be citizen police navies, which limits the effective size.

This keeps the amount of internal conflicts fairly small, and thus not very destructive, and the Heir Family dependent on citizen police navies, preventing the Heir Families raising a huge fleet to challenge the Imperial Navy proper.

convoluted schemes!