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[Amann Karris]

[spoiler]1. Gallente = Drones.

2. Amarr = Lasers and drones.

Drones = less crew.

3. Caldari = missiles

Missiles = Crew changing out missiles between missile cycles, therefore more crew.

4. Minmatar = rust.

Rust = scrubbing.

Scrubbing = most crew evar.[/spoiler]


It uh... it makes sense if you don't think about it too hard, and forget that the Caldari have low population numbers. /joke  Also, I could so turn those numbers into a workable tabletop game mechanic.

Instead of scrapping these and going with something else, I'd say look at the mechanics of the ships themselves, and perhaps having racial modifiers on all the various stats.  Min/max crew, max capacity, etc.  That's really the only change I'd make.  That's also such a simplified chart that it makes my head hurt.

Also, a low population doesn't become a disadvantage until you have disproportionate crew sizes; A Caldari ship has more crew, and less ships, and lower population.  This is why the Gallente drones would be such a threat, and why Pod technology would initially be such a boost to their war effort.

Just sayin'.

[Mithfindel]

Personal assumption on "what, Caldari need more crew" - their ships are most high tech. More complex systems don't mean that they're easier to maintain. It means the exact opposite. (Contrast to Amarr: It might be that they avoid serviceable parts, with lasers being mechanically more simple than "projectile" weapons and a block of armour being easier to maintain than a shield projector.) But yes, would good to hear the background for the numbers.

[lallara zhuul]

You do know the reasons behind the racial modifiers.

There is none, they were pulled out of someones ass.

[Cmdr Baxter]

[spoiler]3. Caldari = missiles

Missiles = Crew changing out missiles between missile cycles, therefore more crew.[/spoiler]

A well-trained crew can't reload a missile tube in 10 seconds. The only thing that could possibly do this is some sort of auto-reloading system.

Personal assumption on "what, Caldari need more crew" - their ships are most high tech. More complex systems don't mean that they're easier to maintain. It means the exact opposite. (Contrast to Amarr: It might be that they avoid serviceable parts, with lasers being mechanically more simple than "projectile" weapons and a block of armour being easier to maintain than a shield projector.) But yes, would good to hear the background for the numbers.

I agree with the need for a background for the numbers (but cringe at who it'd likely come from ). This does seem like it came out of left field.

High tech doesn't necessarily equal a need for more crew, however. Training would handle part of the problem - give the enlisted crew specialized NECs and send them to training schools related to their assigned jobs. You could supplement them with robots (less crew, able to handle simple taskings, don't take up as much space as an organic crew would) for day-to-day maintenance tasks.

Many people are surprised to know that the average crew size on US Navy warships has shrunk over the last decade: as an example the crew size on destroyers (about as advanced as possible: helicopters, torpedoes, SPY-1, RIM-116, vertical missile launching systems, ballistic-missile defense systems, controllable-pitch propellers) went from almost 400 to about 300 people. And we're at our busiest levels since World War 2: the SecNav just went on record as saying that we're now responsible for maintaining a Carrier 1.7 presence in the Middle East (two carriers on station 9 out of 12 months of the year; figure an eight-month deployment).

[Rok-Yuni]

while i cannot be certain i do have a couple of ideas as to why the racial crew adjustments work the way they do...

Matari - these ships were built with as little tech as possible, therefore it is reasonable to assume that more manual labour would be required from the crew of matari ships, this is likely extremely tiring work, especially during combat situations, and you would need necessary crew to replace any losses during combat to maintain efficiency.

Amarr -  IIRC most of the crew on amarrian ships, are barely trained slaves, on vitoc.... i can see why malnourished and drug addled types need to have extra crew on hand... though since failure is generally recieved badly by their 'overseers' most of these slaves would learn fast...

Caldari - While the State's population may show that they should have ships that should have less crew, remember that even before TEA, military service was mandatory within the state, every able bodied man and woman of the state had at least some form of military training. their ships have more people on them simply because they can have more... the neccessity of having a smaller crew never happened, so they never did it.

Gallente - since the end of the previous Gallente-Caldari war the number of people signing up to the Gallente military has dropped, with no real incentive other than the pay, people within the federation have taken up roles that they prefer over military service. as the numbers began to dwindle they had to work on automated methods of completing jobs that they no longer had the manpower to perform manually.

just my ideas on the subject.

[GoGo Yubari]

Just a reality check before the emo-rage spreads further.

Both things can be true:
1) Caldari have an issue with their relatively small population.
2) Caldari ships require more crew than Gallente.

Indeed, you can kinda see how that makes even more sense that way. Also, you all seem to be missing the point that Caldari have the second lowest creq requirement. Trumped only by the masters of automation. So, yeah.

[Z.Sinraali]

Also, you all seem to be missing the point that Caldari have the second lowest creq requirement. Trumped only by the masters of automation. So, yeah.

Looks like Amarr do to me. 5% < 10%

But I still say the modifiers shouldn't exist. They add nothing to the verisimilitude or story-bearing capacity of the universe, and will only serve to inspire immense factional cock-waving and butthurt.

[Saede Riordan]

Also, you all seem to be missing the point that Caldari have the second lowest creq requirement. Trumped only by the masters of automation. So, yeah.

Looks like Amarr do to me. 5% < 10%

But I still say the modifiers shouldn't exist. They add nothing to the verisimilitude or story-bearing capacity of the universe, and will only serve to inspire immense factional cock-waving and butthurt.

Yeah, if they were gonna do the modifiers, they really should have just listed numbers for all the races individually.

[Boma Airaken]

I am thinking that at these tech levels, crew numbers actually seem insanely appropriate. Obviously you don't have meat loading missiles.

Anybody ever stop to think about damage control? So many unknowns there is absolutely no fucking way to automate it. I assume the crew spends most of their time working out, in their racks, and waiting for the shit to hit the fan on the caliber of vessels we are actually talking about.

[Raphael Saint]

Am I the only one who looked at the survivor rate and went "wha...?"

As the ship class gets bigger the maximum number of survivors increases as well, until we hit Dreadnought.  Then suddenly we've only got 15-30% of the crew surviving.  I'm guessing it's supposed to have something to do with Dreads being mobile weapons platforms and most of their hulls being dedicated to very large weapon systems and the seige reactors (I'm guessing it's some sort of reactor that either ups the energy output ten-fold or diverts all the power from the engine systems).

Also, Titans have a huge margin and the lowest average since the Battlecruiser class.  It might have to do with the doomsdays, but they're also the only other ship class to use the XL size guns.  Coincidence?

[Desiderya]

Hm, they probably thought about what kind of firepower you need to destroy a Titan in the first place. Survival rates are estimates based on the typical fight. 50 Battleships obliterating a single one would probably yield very low rates as well.

[Mithfindel]

You're a few kilometers deep in the superstructure of a titan, operating a reactor. Suddenly, you get hit by wave motion guns or whatever. End of story?

[Saede Riordan]

You're a few kilometers deep in the superstructure of a titan, operating a reactor. Suddenly, you get hit by wave motion guns or whatever. End of story?

the story of a crewmen trying to escape as a titan falls apart around them would actually be rather interesting.

[Casiella]

Coming this summer from Jerry Bruckheimer...

[Ghost Hunter]

Am I the only one who looked at the survivor rate and went "wha...?"

As the ship class gets bigger the maximum number of survivors increases as well, until we hit Dreadnought.  Then suddenly we've only got 15-30% of the crew surviving.  I'm guessing it's supposed to have something to do with Dreads being mobile weapons platforms and most of their hulls being dedicated to very large weapon systems and the seige reactors (I'm guessing it's some sort of reactor that either ups the energy output ten-fold or diverts all the power from the engine systems).

Also, Titans have a huge margin and the lowest average since the Battlecruiser class.  It might have to do with the doomsdays, but they're also the only other ship class to use the XL size guns.  Coincidence?

One of the things I remember being talked about is that how fast the ship is destroyed, and what it is destroyed by, affects survivor probability. Dreadnoughts are giant siege guns versus Carriers/Supercarriers which have a multitude of drones and other systems. Titans are a bit iffy, but probably due to their sheer size escaping it in a couple minutes is probably a problem.