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[Ammentio Oinkelmar]

There are at least two ways to move a story line forward in terms of player co-operation: in character negotiation and out of character planning.

From my point of view the former method is more immersive and challenging because the risk of unexpected results is higher and the experience will spoiler free. On the other hand, out of character consultation allows players to make informed decisions, direct their characters better and possibly be more relaxed.

What's your take on this, which one is the better way to go in EVE?

[Kybernetes Moros]

My stance on this is that IC negotiation makes for the more enjoyable experience; as you said, it leads to the more fluid outcome, with room for IC maneuvring that can in turn give an outcome that's, if not necessarily any more realistic often much more nuanced and deeper than an OOC decision of "right, let's RP so character p gets this, and character q gets that."

That being said, I can see the utility of OOC preplanning. Say, a character gets into a situation whereby it's just not fun to play them any more for the player; there, a very detached level of preplanning along the lines of "okay, this isn't enjoyable, but I think doing that would be; how can I have the character get there?" seems ideal. Nothing incredibly in-depth, but a framework.

[Casiella]

I suppose I take an entirely orthogonal approach. Taking my current (new) main as an example, I chose the game activities where I wanted to focus and the general fictional area that holds my interest (trading/PI and Minmatar, in this case). So then, rather than plan specific things out, the character interacts with the world around him as it comes. That means that discussions and actions arise more or less spontaneously: the loss of a hauler to a gatecamp pushes him one way, getting a date from a pilot in the Summit another.

Perhaps I just miss your point?

[Ammentio Oinkelmar]

Sorry I didn't define what I meant by a story line. I was referring to the play style where the goal is to realize a certain sequence of causes and effects. There are of course other ways to play and the stories then come together with a bit different logic.

Take for example the plot cliche where during a battle, a character falls in love with another character fighting for the enemy, making him/her later on to switch sides. Gradually the character wins the trust of his/her object of admiration and finally, just before the moment of death, admits his/her true feelings.

In this kind of development, joining the wardecced enemy corp would probably be a major obstacle and the romance side might also get complicated without a prior mutual understanding. Nevertheless, in principle it could be done with or without an OOC part.

[Ulphus]

Take for example the plot cliche where during a battle, a character falls in love with another character fighting for the enemy, making him/her later on to switch sides. Gradually the character wins the trust of his/her object of admiration and finally, just before the moment of death, admits his/her true feelings.

I think it's mostly a matter of taste. Your example is the sort of thing that I would never try to set up in advance, in a tabletop RP or in Eve, but I think there are people out there who do pre-plot this sort of thing and seem to enjoy it. Therefore, I don't think that either is particularly "better".

There are RPers who start with a story in mind, and charge in that direction, and there are others who start with a character and can be quite surprised at which direction the character goes. A lot of people seem to have a broad direction they're interested in exploring, but no detailed plans on how to get there.

I think Eve is big enough that we can have styles along the continuum in the RP community.

[Casiella]

A continuum, yes. Already, Iurnan has gone in a slightly different direction than I'd originally intended. That could lead me to a related but distinct discussion on whether we design or discover our characters -- and I'll kick off a different thread for that one, so as not to distract more than I already have a tendency to do...

[Esna Pitoojee]

I find that a mix is the best. Broad, vague objectives for a character's progression can be a good way to get a character's storyline rolling ( "He's going to find his loyalty tested" ) but if you script every second of it ( "He's going to discover that his best friends who he's been supporting since he was a young teenager are responsible for numerous horrible crimes; when he takes this to the authorities, he finds that corruption and disinterest prevent him from bringing justice to his 'friends'."), you end up basically reading a short story... which, as others have said, kind of saps the fun out of it. Letting it develop naturally (I can think of 4 or 5 different ways someone could have their loyalty tested; seeing which arrives first and working from there, for instance) often leads to a much more engaging storyline.

Hope that answers the question!

[Vieve]

Take for example the plot cliche where during a battle, a character falls in love with another character fighting for the enemy, making him/her later on to switch sides. Gradually the character wins the trust of his/her object of admiration and finally, just before the moment of death, admits his/her true feelings.

In this kind of development, joining the wardecced enemy corp would probably be a major obstacle and the romance side might also get complicated without a prior mutual understanding. Nevertheless, in principle it could be done with or without an OOC part.

Not that I know anything about a storyline resembling the example one (*coughs*), but I'll suggest that running it purely IC can cause some misunderstandings, particularly if either or both the characters in question have conflicting/conflicted emotions & motivations and a tendency not to share the whole of their minds, even with the people closest to them.

On the other hand, scripting out a storyline OOCly ahead of time can be boring as hell.

[Orthic]

Not that I know anything about a storyline resembling the example one (*coughs*), but I'll suggest that running it purely IC can cause some misunderstandings, particularly if either or both the characters in question have conflicting/conflicted emotions & motivations and a tendency not to share the whole of their minds, even with the people closest to them.

On the other hand, scripting out a storyline OOCly ahead of time can be boring as hell.

I think that’s actually kinda realistic – two people who aren’t entirely open or honest or aren’t great at communication are going to have misunderstandings. As much as we like the (kinda cliché) love story, there’s a reason it doesn’t usually work out. As such, while it might be frustrating, it’s entirely realistic for the story to get derailed by little IC misunderstandings rather than smoothing things over OOC. And maybe the characters learn a little and next time they try to be a little more open and honest and get a little closer to ‘happily ever after’ before everything goes to hell.

I’m actively playing characters at both ends of the spectrum – one that is quite open and honest, one that is semi-deliberately deceptive, and one that struggles to be honest with itself, let alone other people. The resulting variations in RP and how the story goes are a lot of fun.

[Isobel Mitar]

What's your take on this, which one is the better way to go in EVE?

I personally prefer using mainly the immersive approach, with small sprinkles of pre-planning thrown in.

Mainly immersive, because I personally enjoy Eve roleplaying more when the final story or what actually happens is collaboratively emergent from the situation and personalities of the participants. To me, that emergence is what makes roleplaying unique as a medium for storytelling. A pre-planned storyline feels more like it is about writing a story/fiction together and then acting it out, maybe?

That said, I also happily occasionally do those small sprinkles of pre-planning to increase my enjoyment of the game. This usually happens on a higher level and outside any actual character interaction. I might have an idea of something in the game I want to try, and then invent reasons I believe will make my character to do so. Or want to talk a development over with another player OOC, if I feel it might be potentially problematic like indicate an OOC misunderstanding (IC misunderstandings are fine!) or lead to somewhere I do not enjoy as a player.

I also agree some plotlines can sometimes be OOC more enjoyable if players are aware of them, even if the characters aren't. ("Unconfessed love at distance" mentioned earlier in this thread is an example of one where it might work that way) However, being OOC aware and having agreed to a conclusion for the story are happily not the same thing.