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[Casiella]

We have a number of players here who have significant experience in EVE infiltration and espionage. Some have more fame than others, and still others may have maintained total discretion in such matters.

For those with experience, either in infiltration or counter-intelligence, what advice do you have to offer? And please consider this an open thread for civil discussion of the general topic.

[Saede Riordan]

The best advice I can give on the subject:

A little trust goes a long way, the less you use, the further you'll go.

Tips for infiltration
1. Don't get emotionally invested in your target.
2. Don't think you can trust someone to keep your secret, you can't.
3. Make changes to your mannerisms, activities, and when you're online. Never log your secret alt at the same time as your main.
4. Idiots are everywhere, its just a matter of exploiting that idiocy.
5. Trust goes both ways.

Tips for counter-espionage
1. Be someone that makes your spy not want to betray you.
2. Don't keep lots of assets in public
3. Paranoia is not a solution to stopping spies. Someone will always be smarter then you and you will miss something. That's not to say don't try, but a no defence is completely solid unless you're in a 1 man corp.

I can't really give more detailed advice then that without revealing my trade secrets.

[hellgremlin]

Uggggh ;p

Despite the craftily inserted appeal to my massive throbbing ego, I think I'll pass on commenting. Infiltration has become so commonplace that I doubt I could have anything new or fresh to say.

[Casiella]

Not subtle enough? I'll have to try again.

[Major JSilva]

I'd have to say that in the case of a 0.0 alliance the most dangerous spy isn't always the one who trying to get access to your director level access mails, operations and forums. Most recently TEST alliance hacked in a PL corps CEO forum account and ran a mirror of there forums in the process of also obtaining the master list of PL accounts and alt and there spy network all neatly organized on a spreadsheet.

Though grunts spies can be as dangerous as director level spies, since they can still see the intelligence channel that many use. This has been used to great effect though recently the FC at the battle of 020- for the NC managed to convince the spies in his fleet to drop Drone Russian Super fleet with many of them being elimated, the DF has also been paying off corporation/alliance director level access players with Isk in the double billion marks to shut off POS, screw up station management sometimes close alliance. Remember a couple months back when the NC lost 10 titans in low-sec, that was due to a Russian Cyno pilot in the NC( http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=8891720 )

A couple episodes back on Fly Reckless, episode 53 I believe I read on article by eve tribune on Public Relations and Trust in eve and how it effects relations and networks of people. This topic I believe pertains with trust as well. ( http://eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=6_8&page=2 )

Silva

[Casiella]

Should have remembered that I'd seen an article Playing the Spy – A guide to Corporate Theft in EVE as well.

[Jade Constantine]

Best ever Eve spy story was the Russian cyberninja who snipped the power lines to an apartment block where the enemy alliance Titan pilot was hoping to DD a fleet. That was hardcore ...

[Saede Riordan]

Best ever Eve spy story was the Russian cyberninja who snipped the power lines to an apartment block where the enemy alliance Titan pilot was hoping to DD a fleet. That was hardcore ...

I think I need proof of this having happened, this sounds like an urban legend.

[Casiella]

I recall the story at the time as well. Proof might be difficult, but

[Senn Typhos]

Active intelligence in EVE is a pretty fun field, to be honest. It has few limiting mechanics in-game, which means both offensive and defensive methods have to be devised and implemented by the player. It adds a bit of realism to the game when you have to limit your trust and suspect everything to some extent.

As for being the target of infiltration, I can see why some people wish it just wouldn't happen at all. But it isn't an exaggeration to say that with basic concepts of counter-intelligence, most corporations can defend themselves without expending much effort at all. It's as easy as keeping your back to a wall.

[Jekaterine]

To counter all you need to be aware of is the Cosmo doctrine.
As the name suggests it was coined by The Cosmopolite and runs "Always consider yourself infiltrated by at least two spies at all times".

Then you act accordingly and don't sweat stuff so much.

[lallara zhuul]

The problem with such a doctrine is the fact that you tend to think that there are spies, even when there is none.

[Ciarente]

1) You have at least one actual or potential spy in your corporation right now unless you're a one-player corp. Actual - someone who either joined your corporation to spy on you or steal from you, or who has decided since joining to do so. Potential - someone who is vulnerable to becoming a spy or thief due to frustration with the corp, grievances real or imagined, or coercion or seduction by an outside individual or group. Minimize the damage that can be done to your corp by compartmentalizing access to assets and information. At the same time, be open with your pilots about what your security procedures are and why you have them. Make them uniform, so all your pilots know that it's not because you don't trust them personally, it's a universal corporate policy that applies to everybody.

2) If you suspect a threat within your corp, don't take half-measures. An infiltrator or turncoat will be prompted to action if they realize they're suspected.  If they have any corp roles or access, your first action should be to strip them - not talk to them, not try and sort things out. If they don't, sack them. Block access to every corp channel and forum that is not automated on corp membership.

3) Keep a bulwark for rebuilding if your corp is hit by a thief, and keep it separate to corp funds and assets. Keep valuable and portable corp assets in personal, not corporate hangars. Split your reserve fund, if possible, over characters on different accounts with different log-ons and different passwords. And ofc, change your passwords frequently, including passwords to locked containers in corp hangars. Keep good records of your assets and check them frequently. You can cross reference pilot in-pod activity with asset disappearances.

4) Accept that you will be infiltrated or betrayed at some time during your corporation's lifetime. You are not the smartest person in EVE, and someone who is smarter than you may very well fool you, rip you off, take your stuff, and gloat about it. It's like getting suicide ganked - it's a PITA, but it shouldn't make you emoraegquit.

5) Some other stuff that I'm going to keep to myself for now ...

[Z.Sinraali]

ATAP's security policies: Don't have any corp assets beyond starbases, and those're only up when we're actively running reactions or invention.

[Mathra Hiede]

The one time, and once only in my entire time in EVE has my corporation been ripped off while I was at the helm was due to an overtrusting CEO of a member corp that i was unaware of untill after the ordeal.

This was a very quiet incident.

The only other time I have had to fire a corp-hiriling was because, well they where a complete jerk and I podded him so I could remove him from corp instantly.

Basically - Don't be stupid and leave things lying around, access is granted to only those you firmly trust, and even then minimisation of liquid assets should be of minimal value if your paranoid about them.

KP-V runs very smoothly with Silas, Sinjin and a couple of other directors keeping the ship moving - Works a treat