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[Bong-cha Jones]

I'm not a generator of creative Subject headers, so just bear with me here    I'd like to add that I'm not trying to split the topic, so much as starting a new thread that has roots in something from somewhere else, but that'd I'd like to drag wildly off-topic for my own purposes.  I'd be happy to carry an ongoing conversation on in parallel.

Anyways, I'd like to quote Mammal Tafren here, and then respond:

However, I will say that I agree that Gallente RP needs development. There seem to be more Intaki RPers than straight Gallente - and as I've said before I'd love to see the I-RED/Electus Matari/Vanguard Imperium of the Gallente. There just doesn't seem to be such a thing.

Part of it is because the most obvious Federal RPers (Seri, Soter, Ixiris) don't seem to be massive fans of each other. Maybe that's symbolic of the way Federal politics work. Many of the other Federals either don't really RP (Val Erian, for example) or have taken other paths (Myxx) or whatever.

There's a reason Simon got written as a Federalist, and it has nothing to do with the separatists lacking awesome    Closely related is the reason Simon-p isn't playing Matari or something.

There's a thousand reasons posited for why Federal rp never really picked up.  As an unofficial surveyor of Federal rp history, I don't know what keeps going wrong.  The archives are littered with start-ups and operations that eventually failed.  If I had to pick a reason, I'd say the current malaise is a mix of The Star Fraction and EM providing ready-made alternatives (due to the impressive work of their CEO's and playerbase!) drawing on the ideas of liberty and safe-guarding a dynamic society, combined with a smallish amount of new players rolling Gallente in the first place.  Federal rp ends up in a niche that looks a lot like a dying Byzantium, and that's... not super attractive.

There are other causes, probably:  players in established games tend to gravitate towards established social communities, meaning things get harder as time goes by.  The Caldari rp bloc has been super on message IC about the Fed sucking, which is discouraging (not that they should stop!) for new players.  There's a powerful and well-established bloc of Fed-related rp, currently a probable majority, that's anti-Fed IC (not that they should stop!).  I mean, let's face it, if I had joined EM or the ILF, I'd have gotten a lot more rp when I was on.  A lot more.  That's not a situation unique to me.

-----------------------

So, that's a starting point.  Communities thrive when they have a history.  People are attracted to it, even iconoclastic space revolutionaries!  My first answer to the problem, then, is to construct a history of Federation rp, it's constituents and their accomplishments, and from there, working to build a sense of tradition within that history.  When I get back to this, I'll be posting my first efforts.  Feel free to chip in anything you have, either fixing this issue or identifying and repairing other lacking areas in the Gallentean rp community.

And hopefully I'll be able to get back in game soon so this is a bit less arm-chair.

[Alain Colcer]

As a current alive and active player who is a self professed gallente RPer (not under this name however), i have to say there is one very specific reason pure Gallentean RP is harder to do than others:

- We are defined by how we are different from others, we re not like the caldari, we are not like the amarr, we are not like the minmatar.

So that ends up with , so what really are we? and that has not been answered.

In fact the Intaki Assembly, the Jin-Mei overlord wars, the Mannar, they are all part of the Federation but described as "different" parts of it. I've been asking for an infodump on caldari society, religion and customs for a long time.....i think its the least described society there is, albeit we have plenty of description on their goverment structure.

In terms of history i can put the following list:

-Coreli Corporation, my first RP corp, went Serpentis
-Ixion Defence Systems, much like Quantum Cats today, very light RP, much pvp, nice group of guys, not sure if they are still active.
-Phoenix Wing, similar as above, eventually dissolved and members joined veto, nice guys.
-Lutin Group, my own corp, more carebearing less pvp, aimed to be a partner of the big NPC corps, burned me.
-The Durandal Organization, paramilitary if im not mistaken, lost their CEO, became inactive
-Strix Armaments and Defence, most recognized Gallente RP corp, created the Villore Accords, spearheaded the retake of occupied systems, directors were burned, nice guys.
-Eleutherian Guard, Seri's corp
-Quantum Syndicates, moderate stance, very light RP, pvp centric (although im working to slowly raise the RP presence and activity).

I'm sure there is at least 2 or 3 other pure gallente RP corps that i'm missing, but those are the ones i can remember from the top of my head.

Also, we once had the Rue Lounge chat channel, project sponsored by Kaleigh Doyle, a place to gather and RP as a bloc, it was moderately succesful, but as in any democracy people have different opinions and sometimes its hard to cooperate under a single banner.

For me there is a single unifying aspect for the Federation, the love for freedom and personal liberties, all other are secondary. In terms of megacorps, business and moralities, i'm sure we are in many ways equal or at least very similar to caldari culture....except perhaps for employees which may not be considered "assets", as they have laws that protect them better than i would expect than within Caldari Jurisdiction.

It's perhaps this lack of a strong bond that does not allow to form a larger and more uniform bloc of pure gallente RPers. Or maybe is perhaps we need a strong corp in the first place

[Seriphyn]

The issue is that there isn't a clear cause or enemy with Fed RP. Emphasis on clear. This is vlog material, I love speaking and elaborating my points with gesticulation

The Caldari State, for example, smashed into Luminaire and retook Caldari Prime. Yes, it is the Caldari homeworld, but to the Gallenteans, the scale of the attack was so great, it was the equivalent of 9/11 to them. Thousands to millions (not clear in PF) died, and their citizens are "trapped" below. For all intents and purposes, Caldari Prime is considered a Gallentean world by the Gallenteans.

To top it off, the State conquered half of the Federation, and put it under corporate occupation, effectively annexed the systems, and though it was never revealed other than The Ever-Turning Wheels (one colony out of many, unreliable narrator etc.), there was a communications blackout and "nobody taking count of Gallentean mortality rates".

That is more than enough to justify a very hostile stance against the State. I am purposely ignoring the shades of grey here, for the sake of argument, but also because the shades of grey are one massive thing that has thoroughly killed Federation RP in the past. The problem is, is that a LOT of roleplayers, new and old, DO NOT KNOW about this. They don't know about Caldari Prime being attacked to the epic scale of a EVE 9/11, they don't know how the State came in and conquered many systems, because it is hard to acquire the information unless you dig up past new items (most dismiss FW as fictionally irrelevant; not so).

Perhaps with Abraxas' project, we will see some history regarding the period of occupation etched into the descriptions etc. But that is the main issue right here. That is why EL-G is not a "Gallentean" RP corp so to speak but a "Federation military" one. It's straight up military, with objectives to be acheived, and so on. It's not overtly political, or ideological. I think this is more sustainable than ideological RP, which can sour over time

EDIT - Second point about vicious cycle regarding corp size. EL-G might get referred to for the source of Fed RP, but if new people just see how it's got 12 members, some might be put off by the size, and more likely to go for the ILF instead. More Gallentean characters in ILF than EL-G.

[Hamish Grayson]

The Caldari rp bloc has been super on message IC about the Fed sucking, which is discouraging (not that they should stop!) for new players

Why thank you!

we are not like the amarr

Some would disagree.

See what I did there?

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Honestly, I'm glad there's not a solid bloc for the Federation. If you think about it, Gallentean ideals espouse individualism and personal freedom, and who has more of that than capsuleers? So it would stand to reason that capsuleers simply being out in space and being entrepreneurs is a very fitting example of the ideal.

[Hamish Grayson]

Way back in yester year there were a handful of very active and very clever pro-fed propagandist on the IGS.    Kaleigh was always fun to verbally spar with as well as a different people reporting for the scope over the years. 

[Bataav]

I've noticed the same, and actually alluded to it in a recent post on IGS by commenting that each debate Bataav takes part in (focussing on Intaki) the Federal RP mostly comes from a military angle, whether they be Seri's counter arguements or various members of the FDU shouting us down as rebels and traitors.

And that's ok to a point but I agree that it'd be nice for some more variety 

Off the top of my head I think Simon's corp (in Verge Vendor?) presents those of us in neighbouring Placid with the closest potential in terms of both forum and pod based RP.

[orange]

So say you develop a very real anti-State identity: are you fighting CAIN? I-RED? or targeting small less storied corps whose aid those entities will not aid?

If your opposition disappears how would redefine yourselves?

[Seriphyn]

So say you develop a very real anti-State identity: are you fighting CAIN? I-RED? or targeting small less storied corps whose aid those entities will not aid?

If your opposition disappears how would redefine yourselves?

Well that's what I mean, it doesn't get around to this existential issue. You follow the lead of the Federation military.

If you follow the lead of liberty/freedom, then you run into problems when the Fed starts doing things counter to that, and you can't fight against CCP's storyline. You end up joining a pirate RP corp instead (because piracy makes far more sense than defending a people/society you've grown up with )

Even without CAIN or I-RED, the RP is still there because of the militia. You will always have something to fight against, even if they aren't RPers, they are still RPable.

[Julianus Soter]

The majority of Gallente RP'ers are not members of this board, or even members of what is deemed to be the 'roleplay community'. They're out there in facwar, or the periphery of lowsec in Placid, Essence, Verge Vendor. They rp the gallente angle, but in the form or fashion folks commonly think of it.

Capsuleerdom, in general, has issues with the Federation ideology. And the people of the Federation likely view capsuleers with great skepticism: most of us are tyrannical mass-murdering overlords with no concept of humanity or human rights, cornerstones of gallente belief. Why would capsuleers, then, be the self-appointed representatives of a people that hate them?

[Alain Colcer]

each debate Bataav takes part in (focussing on Intaki) the Federal RP mostly comes from a military angle

First, there is an axiom put long ago by Jade Constantine all over IGS, put your money where your mouth is. That means if you start bashing X faction, you better be prepared to deal with it, in any way it comes at your door. In EvE in particular, that is going to be PvP.

When i created Lutin Group i was looking to make a less PvP centric corp, but still loyalist to the Federation, more like a "business partner" of the great NPC groups who live in the Federation. But althought that game style might seem interesting, this game is made to brutally fuck the crap out of each other until we both bleed to the point we have to stop.

2nd, for those capsuleer corporations that are loyal to the Federation and wish to engage in PvP there is little room in RP terms to explain the nature of your activities.

If you were an Amarr loyalists, you could be a holder with a personal fleet, a corporation loyal to one of the houses or heirs.

If you are a Minmatar, you could be a military force from one of the tribes, a para-military group seeking to free slaves, or a security provider.

If you are a Caldari, you certainly are a subsidiary of one of the megas, either security division, space operations, whatever.

If you are Gallente..........what other "legal" and "believable" option you have besides a Private Military Contractor (PMC), paramilitaries in democracies are often regarded as "extremist"....bordering on terrorist (white supremacy?).

So you see, most arguments come from the military angle, cause its where most of the Fed-RP loyalists sit. It's the easier option, and one that can deal with threats coming from other RPers. Why would you choose to be a research-only RP corp, if an enemy can come and blast your POS to kingdom come and your options limited to hiring mercs?. I wouldn't.

[Seriphyn]

The majority of Gallente RP'ers are not members of this board, or even members of what is deemed to be the 'roleplay community'. They're out there in facwar, or the periphery of lowsec in Placid, Essence, Verge Vendor. They rp the gallente angle, but in the form or fashion folks commonly think of it.

This, yes.

Capsuleerdom, in general, has issues with the Federation ideology. And the people of the Federation likely view capsuleers with great skepticism: most of us are tyrannical mass-murdering overlords with no concept of humanity or human rights, cornerstones of gallente belief. Why would capsuleers, then, be the self-appointed representatives of a people that hate them?

Maybe, but not necessarily. Roden is a capsuleer that got elected, and top FedNav brass would be capsuleers. If they're out killing Caldari for example, or Sansha, Serpentis, or whatever the latest hate group in the Fed is, then they'd be liked. But what you said would apply to the "mercenary" capsuleers, yeah.

Also, something must be done about the amount of Gallentean capsuleers in Electus Matari X_X

EDIT - EL-G being styled as a military unit does weed out industrial/non-PvP RPers (and well, more PvE RPers than PvP?). If there was a "corporate" RP corp though...

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Soter's reasoning would apply to any of the factions in that no one would support a mass murderer. The thing is, most people don't see 'military actions' as 'mass murder' (matter of perspective), and even mercenary activities could be seen as a 'defensive action' to protect the people of said nation.

[Casiella]

The majority of Gallente RP'ers are not members of this board, or even members of what is deemed to be the 'roleplay community'. They're out there in facwar, or the periphery of lowsec in Placid, Essence, Verge Vendor. They rp the gallente angle, but in the form or fashion folks commonly think of it.

While I totally and completely agree with this, doesn't it also apply to the other major nations as well?

[Bong-cha Jones]

Off the top of my head I think Simon's corp (in Verge Vendor?) presents those of us in neighbouring Placid with the closest potential in terms of both forum and pod based RP.

Simon's 'corp' is just me, and suffers from a recurring state of me not being in the game, sadly.  Also, frankly, I'm not a leader.