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Author Topic: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective  (Read 4830 times)

Seriphyn

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EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« on: 25 Mar 2011, 12:31 »

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Quote
In this vlog, I critically analyse topics regarding the social cliques in the EVE Online roleplaying community, how they can engineer your opinions of individual players, and why you should avoid such influences.

Looking back at it, and what I could do better, I wanted a more general approach to the meta-subject, and perhaps used myself and Seriphyn too much as an example (I do defend Revan Nefaris and Julianus Soter in the video if you want some controversial reason to watch its 15 minute length :P)

It is, however, my first attempt at a vlog ever, and wanted to address these specific topics. Perhaps my next ones will talk about "Effort and conviction" and "Repressed subconscious".

Enjoy.
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Senn Typhos

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #1 on: 25 Mar 2011, 13:02 »

I said something, but, I got linked the vid, didn't realize there was a post here... so... I guess I'll awkwardly say something here too.

It's unavoidable that we have human interaction tendencies even in terms of characters. We have a habit of attaching ourselves to characters anyway. I've honestly seen someone get decked for speaking ill of Boba Fett. It's really impossible to be 100% objective, so when a character does something we don't like - RP, movies, series, what have you - the "actor" gets blamed.

Obviously it's ridiculous, but it happens. We're all guilty of it at some point. I think the important thing is to regulate yourself and apologize if you step over the line, so to speak.

Good points all around, bucko. <likes>
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Stitcher

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #2 on: 25 Mar 2011, 20:24 »

Obviously it's ridiculous, but it happens. We're all guilty of it at some point. I think the important thing is to regulate yourself and apologize if you step over the line, so to speak.

Agreed. I keep having to take a step back and separate the player from toon... though in some cases (no, I won't say who) my prejudice based on the character's personality has turned out to be vindicated by the person's OOC behaviour.

I think people's personalities shine through in their characters anyway. The same is true for actors in movies and TV shows - casting is so important because some people could just never carry a role, even if there's nothing about them that's overtly inappropriate for the part. For instance, I don't think the casting of Sean Bean and Viggo Mortensen in Lord of the Rings would have worked well if their positions were reversed.

both acting and RPing work best when the character isn't very far removed from the actor's/RPer's own personality. So I don't think it's invalid to sketch out first impressions of another RPer from their toon, but that's the most you can do - basic impressions. It's only fair to give them the benefit of a fair hearing in person.

just my $0.02
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Seriphyn

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #3 on: 25 Mar 2011, 20:26 »

I think people's personalities shine through in their characters anyway. The same is true for actors in movies and TV shows - casting is so important because some people could just never carry a role, even if there's nothing about them that's overtly inappropriate for the part. For instance, I don't think the casting of Sean Bean and Viggo Mortensen in Lord of the Rings would have worked well if their positions were reversed.

both acting and RPing work best when the character isn't very far removed from the actor's/RPer's own personality. So I don't think it's invalid to sketch out first impressions of another RPer from their toon, but that's the most you can do - basic impressions. It's only fair to give them the benefit of a fair hearing in person.

Shhhh...don't steal my further ideas!
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Stitcher

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #4 on: 25 Mar 2011, 20:34 »

just so long as you credit me, dude.
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Vieve

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #5 on: 26 Mar 2011, 05:52 »

Great VLog there, Seri.

both acting and RPing work best when the character isn't very far removed from the actor's/RPer's own personality. So I don't think it's invalid to sketch out first impressions of another RPer from their toon, but that's the most you can do - basic impressions. It's only fair to give them the benefit of a fair hearing in person.

I agree.  I first 'met' quite a few of my close meatspace friends (including my DH) as virtual adversaries. On the opposite side of things, in the past I've had some wonderful virtual friendships that ... yeah, let's just say that Internet RP can filter out unsavory characteristics as much as it can encourage them.

Not that I'm saying that I'm wholly devoid of unsavory characteristics.

So, speaking of perceptions  ... hey, Seriphyn?  You've interacted as Seriphyn with Celeste, Vieve and Sabi.  So, would you believe I also play Maris Verdure?



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Jev North

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #6 on: 26 Mar 2011, 06:25 »

both acting and RPing work best when the character isn't very far removed from the actor's/RPer's own personality.

Yes, no, maybe. I don't think Sir Anthony Hopkins has even the slightest tendency towards killing and eating people in real life, for example, and if you want to see some of the sheer range a good actor like Brad Pitt has, see e.g. Fight Club or Snatch back to back with Burn After Reading. Acting is a job; what counts is not what kind of person you are, but how good you are at portraying different characters. Affinity with the character can't hurt, of course, but generally being typecasted is seen as a bad thing.

Roleplay's somewhat different because it's all improv, all the time. No lines to study, scripts to read, or directors and writers with a solid vision of what the story and character should be to guide you. When your character staggers into a capsuleer club at 2am for some late-night roleplay, after a hard day at work and a harder evening spent gatecamping in the ass end of Derelik, and you get a situation tossed your character's way you couldn't possibly have foreseen -- yeah, chances are higher the hole gets plugged with something that mirrors your own convictions.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

Edit, aside: oh, right, on-topic comments! Rah, rah, Seri. Don't agree with everything, but you made some good points. Takes balls to sit and talk to people like this, too. Looking forward to the next one.
« Last Edit: 26 Mar 2011, 08:32 by Jev North »
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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #7 on: 26 Mar 2011, 09:21 »

Yes, no, maybe. I don't think Sir Anthony Hopkins has even the slightest tendency towards killing and eating people in real life, for example, and if you want to see some of the sheer range a good actor like Brad Pitt has, see e.g. Fight Club or Snatch back to back with Burn After Reading.

well, the point of acting IS to be able to assume another persona, but certain actors will fit certain parts better than others. Sir Anthony may not have an cannibalistic inclinations himself, but I can't think of many other actors that could have pulled off Dr. Lecter's quiet, sinister intellect quite as well.  For all his flexibility as an actor, I doubt Brad Pitt could do a convincing Hannibal Lecter, for instance.

I'm not talking about typecasting here, but rather Casting as a subtle art of matching the character with the right actor. Anybody can be given a role wildly at odds with their own personality, but only a handful can carry such a part convincingly.
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Jev North

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #8 on: 26 Mar 2011, 09:29 »

Well, agreed, partially.. in most cases, I think the restrictions are less about the personal character of the actor in question, and more in the imagery and reputation the audience associates with them, and their own ability to act out a certain range of behaviour.
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Casiella

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #9 on: 26 Mar 2011, 09:51 »

I'd also think the actor's ability to dig deep and find some connection to the character matters. Brad Pitt may not actually walk around all the time in a raeg, but he's got it somewhere deep in there per Fight Club.

Same with our characters. Seriphyn-p may not be a militaristic horndog like Seriphyn-c, but...

Wait. Yes he is. ;) :D QED.
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Revan Neferis

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #10 on: 26 Mar 2011, 11:01 »

Very Interesting VLOG, it does bring some interesting points to surface.

On what concerns my character specifically that you mention on your video, my opinion on the matter is that perhaps you overreact a bit on people's perception.
I, personally don't perceive that there is a massive dislike of Revan or the player behind it otherwise I wouldn't be making events with over 200 players attendance like the last gladiator games for example, neither these more light events with isk space consequence like the eve top model with a quite good level of acceptance either and obviously wouldn't have such large attendence to my bars and activities in game.

It's a bit dangerous to classify "rp community" as a small niche of some players who happens to enjoy spending time on forums etc. ( ex backstage or chatsubo). Take the Opera for example, I have every weekend around 50 players around the clock Friday-Sunday "role playing" inside a channel and many of them don't even know that this forum or role play related forums exists.
Aren't they part of a "role play community" because of that? I would think they are. what about those 200 plays players participating at events and such? Aren't they part of a "role play community" too?
So what is interesting to define in such vlogs or blogs is: what exactly is a " role play community" ?
To say that a character A or character B is " disliked" is a delicate topic that you should consider more carefully taking on account such answers to form an opinion, otherwise they might not reflect the actual situation in eve online as a game.

Also, some ideas to engage the topic: consider that the role play approach have changed much along the years. Personal dislikes and heavy ooc grudges were formed years back when players like myself and others began to do things that were against the " rule of precious books" that were unwritten but psychologically engaged into the minds of some prominent role players.
An example of that was when I decided to use mercenaries in role play wars. Nowadays this is largely welcomed and embraced but back there it was reason enough to label my behaviour as unacceptable and destructive towards the "role play community". So much that some of my most arduous "dislikes" comes exactly from those days.
I, as a player like to be innovative and challenge the status quo. I enjoy the game creating and pushing new concepts and I don't mind risking consequences for doing so.
So the change on approach and breaking pseudo rules were heavily done back in the years where we were all trying to form a common base to interact as a community but those years didn't shape themselves lightly.
Nowadays we have a very light, stable ( i dare say) "community" but consider that it did come with a price that some of us could say still see it reflected nowadays.

Next point, About the rumors you refer of people ooc hearing this and that, also comes from same sources. One good example that is quite (fun?) in a way 1, 2 players who are regulars of this ooc channel in game and the ic channel named summit - (both which revan neferis character is blocked by default btw) once had said that my work as an executive sport cars designer and engineer weren't really true, in fact I was a very ruthless Russian Mafiosa Boss which also engages on unholy baby killing ritualistic activities at the "Bohemian Grove"... which happens to play eve. *ahem*
In their minds, this "oh so terrible" revelation would supposedly reach the hearts of new players and tell them " dont you ever approach Revan or engage on Sani Sabik role play because THAT PLAYER OF THAT CHARACTER.... you SEE!?"
And several other attempts of character and role play "assassination" as the term used, have been attempted by the same players over and over along the years which reaches the scope of the channels they use to frequent ( and even that is backfiring ) but that's all about it really.
Case point in TL, DR version is: To say that what happens inside ooc channel is the same as the scope of "a role play community" is giving it a dimension that isn't really there.

Also, the last point on your video related to as why rumors generally comes from people who never interacted or spoken to the player before is because consider that there is a price to pay when we confront reality x the fantasies we want to believe. For example, I dare say that the many eve players and friends meeting me in real life along the years might have gotten a little bit disappointed by not finding the .22 caliber handgun under my business suit and they are also disappointed by the fact that Jade hasn't reported strange accidents with Ice picks either.... ouch?

But I use the " light comment " to show that people who spreads these sort of rumors have no interest on approaching the object of their dislike because that would break their rumors chain and the evil picture they like to think its cool to propagate. Of course some go beyond the edge of civility when they see that their pseudo rumors aren't really helping much their case but that's totally irrelevant to the point about your comment on the video.

Wall of text to comment here as my name specifically was mentioned in your vlog, so here are my views on the matters you spoke about.

Hope to see more vlogs from you Seriphyn, good work.

edit to correct ic/ooc channel names and references
« Last Edit: 26 Mar 2011, 15:20 by Revan Neferis »
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Ember Vykos

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #11 on: 26 Mar 2011, 13:03 »

First off I want to say nice vid :D and kudos to you for having the balls to do something like that.

You raised some good points and I think to some extent we are all guilty of bringing OOC over into IC. I try my best to give people the benefit of the doubt if I havent interacted with them regardless of what I may have heard about them. Most times I can pull this off but even then I still have what Ive heard in the back of my mind and that probably does influence my interactions both IC and OOC to some extent but thats just how it goes. Also most times I end up at least not disliking said person after I have talked to them myself at least OOCly ICly there are just some people that Ember was predisposed to not like in an IC manner(like Seriphyn-c). If Im honest and had bothered to fill it out I probably would have listed you as my "Lex Luthor" during my time in CalMil, and now that Im out of game I regret not pursuing that more while I was still playing.

Overall though like I said great vid and Im looking forward to the next ones.
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Mitara Newelle

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #12 on: 26 Mar 2011, 20:35 »

Cool VLog, Seri!
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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #13 on: 26 Mar 2011, 22:03 »

Definitely solid points Seri.  Probably a good way to vent as well.

It would be interesting to see a list of what cliques people consider to exist (some may be very real, others not so much).

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Seriphyn

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Re: EVE RP Vlog #1 - Cliques and perspective
« Reply #14 on: 28 Mar 2011, 06:10 »

Cool stuff, I'm glad this has had a positive reception :)

Will definitely be thinking up of more, and such
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