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Author Topic: [Split] Evemail/log sharing discussion (EULA, privacy, consent, etc)  (Read 5142 times)

Syylara/Yaansu

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Evemail/log sharing discussion (EULA, privacy, consent, etc)
« Reply #15 on: 09 Jan 2011, 07:16 »

Bend over?

Eh-- sort of.

CCP is basically saying, "This is our play-dough. You're all welcome to come over and have fun making whatever you like with our play-dough, but no matter what you make of it, it's still our play-dough, and we get to keep whatever you make out of it. So don't worry about who owns what or that you're going to get sued; come and have fun!"

It creates a sort of non-litigation zone where there's neither a way nor a reason to sue over creative rights or game-related actions. People mostly get "bent over" trying to make money off something made of CCP's play-dough (and that's easily recast as people trying to steal play-dough-- that is, bend CCP over).

There are far worse examples of corporate evil (if this even qualifies), Syylara. Ask me about mandatory arbitration clauses some time. You'll probably find one of those in your credit card agreement; CCP, to its credit, seems not to have included one.

[Lawyer's (more paranoid than usual, but you never know) disclaimer: just my present opinion, not legal advice, if that wasn't obvious, yadda yadda.]

I consider having to surrender so much just to play a video game any more getting bent over, but that's taking us even further off the point :9.  There are also downsides to the "litigation free zone", namely that it creates an atmosphere where people can act like douches to each other because they know nothing will come of it.
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Misan

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[mod]Split this topic from http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1561.0[/mod]

Carry on, interesting discussion. :)
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orange

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Quote from: EULA s. 11(c)
You hereby grant CCP an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, irrevocable, assignable, royalty-free license, fully sublicensable through multiple tiers, to exercise all intellectual property and other rights, in and to all or any part of your User Content, in any medium now known or hereafter developed.
So, I have not granted them rights to exercise intellectual property and other rights over my characters or User Content... in space!

I consider having to surrender so much just to play a video game any more getting bent over, ...  There are also downsides to the "litigation free zone", namely that it creates an atmosphere where people can act like douches to each other because they know nothing will come of it.
If all you are interested in is creating a story about someone in a sci-fi setting and retain the creative rights, you do not need to play Eve.

From an IP standpoint, I do not own Dex Nederland or Lai Dai Infinity Systems in any form.  Even the website built for LDIS could arguably be CCP's property - the site is based on their IP.

In the case of In-Game material and action; they literally own everything.  The servers holding the 1s and 0s containing the very existence of our characters are owned by CCP.

And here is the real-life non-game reason that is important - lose of the data due to unforeseen circumstances (natural or otherwise).  The company is protecting itself from having a horde of angry customers coming and suing them should the servers (CCP's physical property) be lost.
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Aria Jenneth

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I consider having to surrender so much just to play a video game any more getting bent over ...

I assure you, the alternative is worse.

Imagine if, say, Stitcher had actual, honest-to-goodness rights to his character. Imagine that his wealth, position, and reputation resulted in the character having a substantial dollar value. Imagine, then, that I (in character as Aria) say something nasty and untrue about Stitcher, which goes viral, substantially reducing that dollar value.

Stitcher's player, under the laws of my home state, could very likely sue me for libel-- knowingly making untrue defamatory statements that do in fact defame him.

That's just one example. "It's just a game" is an argument with some teeth, admittedly, but it stops looking like "just" a game when you start to bring substantial dollar amounts into play.

And then there's the pirates. Ouch....

Can you imagine what could happen to poor Istvaan? We'd be talking criminal charges-- taking another's property by deception, etc. He's most clearly protected, as are pirates, by the fact that nothing, in the legal sense, is changing hands.

Quote
... but that's taking us even further off the point :9.

Not anymore!  :D

Quote
There are also downsides to the "litigation free zone", namely that it creates an atmosphere where people can act like douches to each other because they know nothing will come of it.

That's Eve's nature: it's a cutthroat, vicious game. You gained access to its protections when you signed the EULA-- as did we.

One man's "douch" -dom is another's (admittedly vicious, but that's Eve) fair play. I don't care to see the sandbox turn pure and powdery under the force of common law; I'd rather have it dark and gritty under the EULA. I'd rather save the nice-ness for real life.
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Benjamin Shepherd

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Thanks for being a lawyer, fair Aria
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Mizhara

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I can't believe we've gotten this far without a 'What do you call 500 lawyers on the bottom of the sea?' joke.
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Casiella

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Syylara, I speak with significant personal experience here when I say that I do not believe that the ECPA or CFAA (US laws to which you refer) reflect on this situation. However, that's not to say that publishing the communications would be a good idea for other reasons. I'd think it's rude, personally, at a bare minimum.

ObDisclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and I'm definitely not your lawyer. I am, however, a licensed investigator with years of experience in computer crime. And this is definitely not a statement on Backstage policy, either.
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Seriphyn

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Wait, do CCP have access to all my chat logs? Like, dig it out of a hat?
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Casiella

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Seriphyn

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I don't even have to mention why I'm personally uncomfortable with that, given the behaviour of one of my characters...

 :|
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Casiella

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Eh. Do you think CCP goes trolling through chat logs to find personally embarrassing material?

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Ghost Hunter

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Eh. Do you think CCP goes trolling through chat logs to find personally embarrassing material?



What reason do they have not to when both drunk and deranged with power.
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Aracturus

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Imagine how I feel :p
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Seriphyn

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Brings up an alternative thought. Perhaps CCP sought to make my connection to the devs in the whole player/dev interaction thing with his fiancee specifically because of his womanizing...

The same way they provide Soter with leaked intelligence because he's "information" based.
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Casiella

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I think you may be way overanalyzing this, my friend. :)
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