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Author Topic: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians  (Read 12692 times)

Elsebeth Rhiannon

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #30 on: 26 Nov 2010, 03:31 »

Quote
A while ago there was threads about godmodding and spheres of influence. Making a non-capsuleer charater is against the mechanics, perhaps we can roleplay that though. Making a non-capsuleer charater that appears in game, in space or in station and can interact on the IGS seems to go against the setting. Making a non-capuleer charater that does the aforesaid and has political influence that can affect my charater and my roleplay directly is boardering on godmodding if taken too far.
I think this comes close to my own understanding.

Personally, I do not really object to people making characters that are not capsuleers to appear on off-the-pod RP sometimes, but I'd prefer such characters not to undock, access the markets, post on IGS, etc, and definitely not unless there's some explanation IC for why and how they would (using their sister's accesses, with or without permission, say ;)). It does go a bit against the setting, but if you do it without bothering other people with it much, it's fine.

When it goes to making a non-capsuleer character that posts on IGS etc, and that character is something my character would strongly care about, it starts to feel like godmodding, indeed.
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Alain Colcer

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #31 on: 26 Nov 2010, 06:27 »

It seems to me that the purpose of this thread is to reassure the OP that he really is on the side of 'right' because enough people 'like' something, even though they don't RP the faction in question, or have any desire to participate in the situation at hand.

[mod]Personal attack[/mod]

Creating a poll to register people's opinion or perceptions is not about stating who is right or wrong.
« Last Edit: 29 Nov 2010, 20:19 by Ciarente »
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Seriphyn

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #32 on: 26 Nov 2010, 07:13 »

This was on the IGS on September.

Nobody said anything about ten-year old Anette Inhonores being a capsuleer just because she has an in-game face to represent her.

And just because one has "never interacted with her" doesn't exclude her from the argument.
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Akrasjel Lanate

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #33 on: 26 Nov 2010, 07:35 »

This was on the IGS on September.

Nobody said anything about ten-year old Anette Inhonores being a capsuleer just because she has an in-game face to represent her.

And just because one has "never interacted with her" doesn't exclude her from the argument.

I remeber that...

Politics can be interesting as RP, but also need be controled somehow beacause people could say tht they have a seat in he senate, or all Intaki don't want to be in the Federation.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #34 on: 26 Nov 2010, 07:44 »

This was on the IGS on September.

Nobody said anything about ten-year old Anette Inhonores being a capsuleer just because she has an in-game face to represent her.

And just because one has "never interacted with her" doesn't exclude her from the argument.
Here's my answer to that from above (sorry for the duplication, but you seem to have missed it (easy in a long and emotional thread, and I am too lazy to rephrase):

Personally, I do not really object to people making characters that are not capsuleers to appear on off-the-pod RP sometimes, but I'd prefer such characters not to undock, access the markets, post on IGS, etc, and definitely not unless there's some explanation IC for why and how they would (using their sister's accesses, with or without permission, say ;)). It does go a bit against the setting, but if you do it without bothering other people with it much, it's fine.

When it goes to making a non-capsuleer character that posts on IGS etc, and that character is something my character would strongly care about, it starts to feel like godmodding, indeed.
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Benjamin Shepherd

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #35 on: 26 Nov 2010, 10:03 »

I am laughing so hard right now.

Why is everyone fighting over something that doesn't affect anyone here and doesn't force anything upon anyone? There is wayyyy too much time on your hands, people. Just vote. Also, imo I'm finding this a lot in general on this thread:

« Last Edit: 26 Nov 2010, 10:36 by Benjamin Shepherd »
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Senn Typhos

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #36 on: 26 Nov 2010, 11:20 »

I have no strong feelings one way or the other, and if anyone disagrees with me, you're a socialist. >:U
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #37 on: 26 Nov 2010, 12:41 »

I'm continuously amazed at how long this discussion has gone on, yet not one single example of a negative consequence of the politician's postings has been put forward, only an endless parade of how bad it would be if they did something that absurdly violates lore.  Non-capsuleers gaining access to IGS through a secure interface doesn't really directly contradict lore unless you have been imagining a world where there are no exceptions to any of the rules, a concept I find entirely unrealistic.

It is really inappropriate from an IC standpoint for Syyl'ara or Yaan'su to comment publicly on the Ishukone operations they are overseeing security for (PI and industry stuff that actually is taking place IG).  I've heavily considered making a senior management character and public relations alt for looking a little more professional seeming operation.  This would be a locally-owned partnership organization, not Ishukone itself, obviously.  I never really considered that such figures would be capsuleers, but the advice of a few people I've bounced my ideas off of and the controversy this issue has created give me pause, now.

When I did Syyl and Yaan's backgrounds, their path to becoming capsuleers was through various programs the State put together to use the technology for administrative purposes.  Perhaps expanding on this approach could be a way to reconcile this issue.  Putting a plug in someone's head so they can navigate your corporate databases and facilitate tasks more efficiently might make business sense.  Maybe each of the alts could simply change their title in the sig lines to "<political party> Press Secretary/Communications Director/etc.u
That at least aleviates the whole "these people potentially have too much power" issue.  On the subject of whether every character made is a capsuleer or not (especially shell posting alts), I would personally find it more disruptive trying to shoehorn these alts into having become capsuleers when that adds almost nothing to their personas (if anything, excessive rules-hounding interrupts continuity).

I'm really curious, however, why none of the opponents have answered my questions about where my characters were educated (sadly, the opposition position requires them to either apply a double-standard or attempt to determine for me what my character's backgrounds are, i.e. god-moding) or what has materially changed in their gameplay as a result of this (rather than repeatedly insisting the mere possibility is grounds for invalidating it).

I'd also remind you that using OOC knowledge ("the game mechanics/rules say x, y, and z") to direct IC actions ("therefore I am wardeccing you") is meta-gaming.
« Last Edit: 26 Nov 2010, 12:54 by Syylara/Yaansu »
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orange

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #38 on: 26 Nov 2010, 13:20 »

why none of the opponents have answered my questions about where my characters were educated or what has materially changed in their gameplay as a result of this (rather than repeatedly insisting the mere possibility is grounds for invalidating it).

As to the location of your characters' education - the School/System that the game mechanics placed your character in at the beginning can still be the license issuing organization/location.

That your education took place somewhere else would not change the concept that all independent (ie player) capsuleers are issued licenses from the following schools at the following locations and that these locations must be their first point of departure when entering the Eve Universe as an independent capsuleer.


what has materially changed in their gameplay as a result of this (rather than repeatedly insisting the mere possibility is grounds for invalidating it).

Little if anything in their gameplay.

Now their roleplay clearly there are impacts.  The ILF, in response to one of these characters, is championing for secession.  Soter wants to prevent that and pursue the ideal Federation; faux*-nationalist are a threat to that.

One of the characters have stated that Soter lacks knowledge of the Federation's system; so apparently the character you consider baseline is more informed about the Federation's system than a prominent Federal capsuleer/infomoprh!

Who decides how to fill in these holes that exist in PF?   The shell-alt whose history is unknown?  Or a group of long standing characters (players) with a record of supporting the entity in question?

*What he considers these characters.

While we may each have corners of the sandbox, there exist communities within the Sandbox.  Stepping in with any characters with the purpose of speaking for NPC organizations impacts these communities.
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Saxon Hawke

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #39 on: 26 Nov 2010, 13:35 »

  The ILF, in response to one of these characters, is championing for secession. 

As a point of clarification: The ILF has ALWAYS championed for secession. We just are more vocal when the opportunity arises. This was such an opportunity.
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #40 on: 26 Nov 2010, 14:13 »

As to the location of your characters' education - the School/System that the game mechanics placed your character in at the beginning can still be the license issuing organization/location.

Except it isn't, and you can't force me to operate otherwise.

See this is the inherent hypocrisy in your position.  You demand that I not infringe upon you and expect that such a demand justifies you dictating my character's attributes because they could potentially impact you in any way at any point in the future.

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That your education took place somewhere else would not change the concept that all independent (ie player) capsuleers are issued licenses from the following schools at the following locations and that these locations must be their first point of departure when entering the Eve Universe as an independent capsuleer.

What would your IC response be to a claim otherwise?  That your capsuleer has personal knowledge of how ever other capsuleer came to be?  That they have personally verified the accuracy of every CONCORD entry?  You'd be meta-gaming if you did that.  It is again, a subjective preference issue in that I am higly irritated by pre-determined, cookie-cutter backgrounds.  Same basic disagreement took place when writing up a bio for an SWTOR character (I have since lost interest in the game), with people insisting I must portray a Jedi who is part of the order because that is what my BW-written background and IG activities will limit me to.

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Little if anything in their gameplay.

Now their roleplay clearly there are impacts.  The ILF, in response to one of these characters, is championing for secession.

Hate to break it to you...that isn't a change.  Maybe inform yourself on the existing landscape before attempting to sound like an authority on the subject.

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Soter wants to prevent that and pursue the ideal Federation; faux*-nationalist are a threat to that.

Soter is no more or less capable of assuring or preventing seccesion than anyone else, neither are these political operatives.  They claim to have IC power, that doesn't mean they actually do (this has got to be one of the worst cases of not being able to distinguish IC portrayals from RL).

They are not a "threat" to Soter IC or OOC, but even if they were, is EVE a game where one can be assured that no threat can ever harm you?

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One of the characters have stated that Soter lacks knowledge of the Federation's system; so apparently the character you consider baseline is more informed about the Federation's system than a prominent Federal capsuleer/infomoprh!

Uh, it is rhetoric and bloviating, just because a political operative says "I am more <intangible subjective> than you" doesn't mean it is true.  People hurl stuff like that at each other day in and day out, why is his different?

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Who decides how to fill in these holes that exist in PF?   The shell-alt whose history is unknown?  Or a group of long standing characters (players) with a record of supporting the entity in question?

Appeal to Authority/popularity contests are the worst way of settling these disputes, imo.

This comes dangerously close to just being a big ego fight, now.  "I am more important/approved of/well liked/have had a subcription longer, therefore my word stands for more."

Again, this has nothing to do with the actual issue, and just becomes an argument about who is "more qualfified"

My short answer is: the person who got off their OOC soapbox, dangled something out there that takes work to pull off well and opened themself up to criticism rather than the bitter old farts who demand everyone conform to their vision "because they were here first" (Appeal to Authority/Tradition).  I don't actually think of people that way, just demonstrating that anyone can use divisive imagery and negative sounding adjectives to the other side.

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While we may each have corners of the sandbox, there exist communities within the Sandbox.  Stepping in with any characters with the purpose of speaking for NPC organizations impacts these communities.

Except nobody can demonstrate any impacts, only contriving one theoretical scenario after another or, at best, examples of behavior that take place day in and day out already.

Again, if this is where you set the bar (they might do such-and-such), then explain to me why I can't demand for you to refrain from RP for the exact same reason?

It is truly disheartening to see people vilifying and demonizing people with different preferences while simultaneously proclaiming they are victims (or rather, that they might be victims...someday) over a computer game.

I repeat my initial call: If this isn't your thing, stay the hell out of it.  Filing your disapproval and desire not to engage, then being intentionally disruptive to those who are I find the least defensible of all positions (not saying you have).

Question: are Soter and Seri's "General" ranks officially supported or ICly claimed? I honestly don't know anything about FW :9.  If Soter gets to claim some powerful person in the military gave him a commission, then I am truly done with this farce of manufactured outrage.  I don't care if you were in the FDU and participated in the war, that doesn't mean you were made a General if the mechanics don't allow for such (if we're applying the standard equally, that is).

Ultimately, this whole "cannon nazi vs. lore trampler" debate pops up on every RP community I've been in.  Comparisons to absurd and obviously out-of-world elements always get made for even the tiniest movement outside of the rigid walls.

The only solution that ever works is for people with such inflexibly differing views to insulate from each other, because the alternative is IC bickering that is little more than thinly veiled attempts to continue the same OOC argument.  It literally just devolves into "yuh-huh" and "nuh-uh".
« Last Edit: 26 Nov 2010, 14:48 by Syylara/Yaansu »
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Julianus Soter

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #41 on: 26 Nov 2010, 14:34 »

So, in facwar, there are ranks and medals that are handed out for accomplishing missions and conquering strategic complexes. These grant standing with the militia corporation. Every integer value of standing grants a new rank. More details on this game mechanic are available here:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ranks

My character, Julianus Soter, has achieved militia standings greater than 9.0 before modifying skills, earning the rank of Luminaire General. Because he's not in the militia, he's inactive and the medal doesn't show. The standings are visible in-game, however. Same goes for Seriphyn.

Why I would need to go over this on the forums to defend myself from personal attacks is beyond me, of course.
« Last Edit: 26 Nov 2010, 14:35 by Julianus Soter »
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John Revenent

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #42 on: 26 Nov 2010, 15:01 »

RP is serous bizniz....

Have fun people. heh... maybe?
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Vieve

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #43 on: 26 Nov 2010, 15:39 »

Huh.

Not one person's ever given me crap about my starting school, or whether or not that starting school was accurate.  Weird.

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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: [Poll] IGS Gallente Politicians
« Reply #44 on: 26 Nov 2010, 16:08 »

Huh.

Not one person's ever given me crap about my starting school, or whether or not that starting school was accurate.  Weird.

You have my attention and curiosity :9.
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