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[Seriphyn]

This breached the rules? Where?

Why can't we debate RL stuff? It's not like it was even a debate, since there were no polarized sides, but simply a discussion of alternating views.

Were there any complaints from users? Silver mentioned the thread "not getting any better" but please point out to me where it descended from its original disposition. I don't think it ever did.

[Silver Night]

It breached the guidelines for the section, and I really should have locked it earlier. To requote:

Please tread carefully when it comes to RL religion, politics, and other controversial issues. There are lots of forums for debating that kind of thing, this isn't one of them.

[Casiella]

I found Ashar's last post (before Silver locked it) particularly inappropriate and combative.

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

Did you petition it, Casiella?

[Casiella]

Not until after the thread was locked, because that's when I saw it. That happened without my influence, I promise... and for the record, I thought the thread could have stayed open, perhaps with only minor editing or restatements in a few cases. (FWIW, I thought you had an excellent point. As often is the case, we differ on style more than substance.)

[Kaleigh Doyle]

It was like watching two trains on the same track headed toward one another in slow motion. You could see the outcome a mile away. 

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

Wow, after the thread was locked. That's drawing one hell of a reaction.

This isn't about you individually, really, but I'd very much like for you to let things be more often once the decision's made unless there's actually something to be done, Casiella. The thread was locked but you decided to petition a post in it? Without contacting me with an eye to pushing for a change in my posting habits, because you've evidently admitted defeat there, or seen it as worthwhile only to get the administrative bunch to act on what you consider bad behavior and then say things about how we differ more on style than on substance.

What purpose did that serve if it was not to shore up your position on how the forum ought to run, and by extension the whole of its associated service package on the other subdomains? Neither of us are administrators here. The time for proactive framing of new rules is certainly not over, but I'm pretty sure we've all submitted our ideological tuppence already. Some of it on another damn forum. What the hell was that about?

Honestly. If we didn't differ all that much on substance, you'd have made my point in said thread - in whatever capacity or style. There are a number of ways in which we differ in substance. The similarities do not prevent behavior that is primarily about your platform and your values (or mine, except I fight for them when another set are made prevalent and I keep seeing you do things that look suspiciously like fighting for yours before anyone challenges them, just for the sake of enforcing conformity) in communication before those of certain others, myself included - which brings us to the fact that it isn't you individually. Lots of people probably do shit like that, which makes me wonder - do they think they're helping? Do you issue a notice to your police department that you know the neighbor you saw getting a speeding ticket the other night and you thought he was wrong to violate traffic law? Is that your deal? How does that make your neighborhood better, or your local cops?

People can be of two minds about these things; they can either let the moderators act as their rules allow and then respond to the actions to generate data for the improvement of the ruleset, or they can push for their own goddamn way because they think it's better for others in any given setting. I don't get what you're doing, and I hope it's just some bizzare one-off, because if it's not the implication looms in the air that your opinion is something you consider so incontrovertible, you seek to pass it on to the establishment proactively whether they're amending policy or not. Here, little gal at the lemonade stand - let me tell you all about the importance of good customer service - oh, you'll need it when you're older for your soul-crushing education as to the nature of a retail job, I don't care if you're four.

I wish you'd said 'yeah, before action'd been taken, I hit the report button.'

[Casiella]

Um. I do let the mods act as they will -- I'm not one of them, obviously (check my profile and the listing), and all I can ever do is to tell them what I think. Just like you and everyone else can. They can make up their own minds, either "Casi's a damn fool and needs to shut the hell up" or "hmm, good point, but not a big deal" or "OH YEAH EAT IT FOOLISH POSTER!!!" Generally, they tend to that second choice, I like to think, since I haven't gotten notice that my reports are spurious and only a proper subset of them receive any public action. My platform is, quite simply, "civil discourse in a polite manner". That's why I use this forum to the exclusion of almost every other public EVE forum. (And I don't know what other disagreement on another forum you mean. If we debated this on Chatsubo, I certainly don't recall it, though given my recent mental state that doesn't really mean much... )

I don't intend to debate the RL analogies here in this thread, and I guess Silver doesn't want us to discuss those sorts of issues (e.g. law enforcement approaches) in other threads. Which is a shame, because I'd like to do so. I will simply note that the goals of a discussion forum and, say, a neighborhood (or society at large) differ substantially, and that I have long classified myself as a rabid civil libertarian who thinks the ACLU frequently doesn't go far enough.

In general, I do think that the thread in question could have taken a more interesting and thought-provoking turn. On that point, we agreed. I don't think, however, that berating and insulting other people (even in jest) accomplishes that in a positive, community-building manner. And I do think that throwing in my two bits to the mods does something mildly constructive. If they tell me to tone it down, though, I definitely would. Hearing that same message from someone with whose communication style I generally oppose, though, does not have the same effect, and I presume that works both ways.

In fact, on that note, I suspect you know quite well why I haven't PMed you about it. It didn't go well the last time I did.

[Havohej]

[admin]I'm not using the pretty Admin post box for the whole post, because this is going to be long.  But I'm definitely posting with the Admin hat on right now.[/admin]

It breached the guidelines for the section, and I really should have locked it earlier. To requote:

Please tread carefully when it comes to RL religion, politics, and other controversial issues. There are lots of forums for debating that kind of thing, this isn't one of them.

Silver has addressed the OP's question adequately, but I'd still like to add that Backstage is a forum that runs not only on rules but on admittedly subjective guidelines.  If something goes against the intended atmosphere of the forum, it's going to get locked or nuked.  If something is questionable in that regard, we'll see where it goes and if it turns pear-shaped (as we feel the thread in question did), it will get locked or nuked.

Kaleigh pretty much nailed it with the trains analogy.

With regards to Ashar and Casiella

@Casiella: I'm not sure how useful or constructive your comment regarding Ashar's post in this thread was.  It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the locked thread itself or why it was locked... just a "shame on you" toward Ashar.  We greatly prefer that if a member feels a need to issue a "shame on you" regarding another member's post they do so with the Report Post button.  Which you did (to be absolutely clear, had you not already stated here that you'd done so, none of us would've mentioned it).  Had your post above in this thread been reported, it would've been moderated.

They can make up their own minds, either "Casi's a damn fool and needs to shut the hell up" or "hmm, good point, but not a big deal" or "OH YEAH EAT IT FOOLISH POSTER!!!" Generally, they tend to that second choice, I like to think

Confirming this.  That second choice tends to be the way most of us respond to the majority of reports that show up in the Reports subforum.

@Ashar: People can report whatever they like, whenever they like.  The staff decides what to and not to act on.  I can't imagine a better reason for reporting a post than to "get the administrative bunch to act on what you consider bad behavior".  We do act as our rules and guidelines allow and discuss things to determine whether or not there seems to be need for new or adjusted rules based on which way the forum's members in general seem to be leaning with their posting - but always with the existing rules and guidelines, and more importantly the "forum ideal" that inspired them, in mind.

Please understand, though... at the time of this post, the front page says "7230 Posts in 647 Topics by 213 Members".  That's a lot of fucking posts, by a lot more people than we expected to see posting here when we started the thing in April, and we're not going to see everything right away every time.  Like every other community forum, this is a volunteer thing that we all have as a sort of side-hobby appended to our primary hobby (internet spaceships).  Some of these posts that get Reported, we probably would never have noticed otherwise.  Even the reports we don't act on are important.

So don't go ripping on people for reporting posts, even if it's after the fact.  Those reported posts and the rules/guidelines by which we act on them are the only thing keeping Backstage from becoming an unnecessary sequel to someone else's forum (be it Scrapheap, Chatsubo or any other OOC community forum related to EVE with more free-for-all posting rules).

OP's question answered, matter of the culture thread considered settled, this thread locked.