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[Makkal]

There is no true Khanid language.

The Khanid and the True Amarr shared Athra, known widely as Amarr Prime, with a common enemy, the Udorians. Together the two people conquered the heathen Udorians; the Khanid gladly joining the Reclaiming and giving up their native religion.

The Khanid were not enslaved. Their art, language, and ceremonies were not wiped out. However, it has been over 3,000 years since the Khanid and True Amarr joined together. The Khanid nobility of that time adopted the language of the Amarr  and ancient Amarr absorbed various Khanid words and phrases.  Khan-kele became a language spoken by the uneducated, making its way into written speech only through a handful of plays where it was used by characters that were simpletons or criminals. Sentence structure, word pronunciation, and phrases varied immensely from region to region until even the lower classes absorbed ‘vulgar’ Amarrian.

By 21,290, Khan-kele was a dead language, spoken and written by no one.

Yet with the split of Khanid II and the creation of the Khanid Kingdoms, some ethnic Khanid became interested in exploring their cultural roots. They picked apart their language, attempting to find what words had Khanid influence. They studied ancient plays, attempting to find a commonality in the various phrases and words attributed to Khanid lower class. In modern times, archeologist interested in the pre-Reclaiming Khanid have journeyed to Amarr Prime and searched ruins for fragments of Khanid art and writing. 

With hostilities ceasing between the Empire and Kingdom and Khanid ‘Unionists’ rising in power, interest in a Khan-kele has become far more political. Khanid loyalists of whatever ethnicity, and even foreigners living within the Kingdom, sometimes introduce snippets of Khan-kele  into their speech. Doing so has become a signal of one’s desire for the Kingdom to become again an independent entity, free of the political and cultural influence of the Amarr Empire.

How authentic are these words and phrases? In truth, it’s unknown. Those who are against the practice call it a fad and suggest that the words are no more than made-up nonsense. Those who use Khan-kele claim that there’s several centuries of support for the origin of the words and that they’re beautiful in a way only those who truly understand the Khanid spirit can appreciate.

[[To explain Makkal's use of 'Khanid' words.]]

[Makkal]

Words and Phrases.

A list of words and phrases I've had Makkal use. I've made Khan-kele of questionable origin so Khanid/Kingdom players don't feel their character 'ought' to use or know it. It also removes the problem of new players stepping into chat and their character looking fooling for not knowing words from a language they'd be native speakers of. 


Bambursi-qun: Bear woman
Hutshon: Howling/Barking boy. Implies the person is always angry and carrying on about something.
Irveska: Little snow leopard
Rorkho-daana: Water viper man. The water viper is subtle, clever, and strikes quickly, taking down its pray before it can react.
Suli-qun: Owl woman
Tokkika: Little rabbit girl

Bayachu: Rich. Implying something is layered and nuanced.
Dohshinka: Literally, a small gift. Mainly used to refer to the small bribes expected in business or politics, but might mean anything needed to 'grease the wheels.'
Qoritan: Good face. One’s ability to main the proper baring in public. Free from anything that might mar your public image. 
Samraara: The path God has laid for you
Taan Molok alna: Modok take you.
Zhisakha: Literally, hidden hand. Commonly translated as 'discretion.' It refers to a person's ability to mind their own business and also one's ability to keep unsavory or unpleasant details about oneself out of the public sphere.

Nationalistic terms -
Alaisan: Pervert or degenerate, especially one who parades this is public. Insulting term for Gallente.
Hutsam: One who barks like a mad dog. Insulting term for Minmatar.
Kookosam: One who struts around or crows like a rooster. Insulting term for Amarr.
Temasam: One who is cold-blooded. Insulting term for Caldari.

These are terms applied to foreigners, not to True Amarr, Gallente, Brutor, or Deties who are citizens of the Kingdom.

jhan: family. Sometimes appended to the name of a Caldari to indicate their megacorp. Malcolm Khross, for example, might be called Malcolm Khross jhan Wiyrkomi.

[Publius Valerius]

-1 I dont think a Khanid language is good idea (and yes, I was a Khanid Kingdom roleplayer).

As for: "Yet with the split of Khanid II and the creation of the Khanid Kingdoms, some ethnic Khanid became interested in exploring their cultural roots. They picked apart their language, attempting to find what words had Khanid influence."
I think we had here on Backstage long time ago a full thread about this topic and this idea of dead languages.... so to short here, and Im to lazy to search: long story short, for the timeframe we look for very, very unlikely.


As for: "With hostilities ceasing between the Empire and Kingdom and Khanid ‘Unionists’ rising in power, interest in a Khan-kele has become far more political. Khanid loyalists of whatever ethnicity, and even foreigners living within the Kingdom, sometimes introduce snippets of Khan-kele  into their speech. Doing so has become a signal of one’s desire for the Kingdom to remain an independent entity, free of the political and cultural influence of the Amarr Empire. "

Kingdom isnt independent... Ask m*****f***** Eterne or Caul. Maybe, even it never was  ? Will see how CCP Eterne and H. Caul will/want the lore. As for me, I havent seen a explanation yet, why they think that the are right; most likely I will never see it; the same counts for my questions, I will never seen a answer for them too. I also think, that will not STOP THEM FOR THINKING THAT THEY ARE RIGHT (aka acting gallente).


I think the only group which would use some sort of "Khanid Language"/"khanidish"; some made up language would be the heretic group: The Athran Brotherhood.

P.S. Just some words doesnt make a language.... If you just use a structure so that EVERYONE can use it, it would be more helpful. See here: http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=3931.0 or http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=3918.0

[Makkal]

As I said, it's not a language. There is no Khanid language. There are fragments attributed to pre-Restoration Khanid but their accuracy is questionable. People who want to show support for a specific political view might drop these words into their speech.

Think of it as the Khanid version of 1970s neo-paganism. Questionable authenticity, and an obvious reaction to specific cultural and political forces.

Kingdom isnt independent...

If you believe that the Kingdom is independent, it's for characters who want to maintain that independence. If you believe the Kingdom isn't a sovereign state, it's for characters who want it to be separate.

[Publius Valerius]

As I said, it's not a language. There is no Khanid language. There are fragments attributed to pre-Restoration Khanid but their accuracy is questionable. People who want to show support for a specific political view might drop these words into their speech.

Kingdom isnt independent...

If you believe that the Kingdom is independent, it's for characters who want to maintain that independence. If you believe the Kingdom isn't a sovereign state, it's for characters who want it to be separate.

lol What is this for a joda bullshit. What does it even mean? Nothing maybe? Thats gets my joda of the week metal  .... Eterne clearly gives a above and below... do you can see it?

[Makkal]

lol What is this for a joda bullshit. What does it even mean? Nothing maybe? Thats gets my joda of the week metal  .... Eterne clearly gives a above and below... do you can see it?

Pardon?

Could you be more specific in your criticism?

[Publius Valerius]

lol What is this for a joda bullshit. What does it even mean? Nothing maybe? Thats gets my joda of the week metal  .... Eterne clearly gives a above and below... do you can see it?

Pardon?

Could you be more specific in your criticism?

"If you believe that the Kingdom is independent."

The Kingdom isnt independent. So the line: "Doing so has become a signal of one’s desire for the Kingdom to remain an independent entity, free of the political and cultural influence of the Amarr Empire." Donst make sense, it should be: "Doing so has become a signal of one’s desire for the Kingdom to become again an independent entity, free of the political and cultural influence of the Amarr Empire."[/i]

[Adreena Madeveda]

Publius, I have a hard time finding why you are so vocally grrring here.

It seems quite obvious to me that Makkal purpose isn't to create a whole language -and, by the way, since most created languages OOC are just sketches, I find kinda rad to create an IC language that is just sketches.

As for the canonicity of Makkal's worldbuilding : "it's a big cluster, after all."
Why wouldn't a small portion of the Khanid kingdom's population keep loyal to the Empire and looking for tiny bits of their former culture ?

[Makkal]

Correct. This isn't an attempt to make a cultural construct for the majority of Khanid. Loyalist/separatist Khanid are, as I understand, a minority.

For me, one of the pleasures of playing a citizen of the Kingdom is the feeling that you must work with two nations that are much more powerful than you culturally and politically, but you still want to keep something that's uniquely yours. A lot of people see the Ammatar as the Empire's 'lapdog,' which isn't fair, and someone in the Kingdom might want to make sure they don't become a 'lapdog' for the State or Empire.

"If you believe that the Kingdom is independent."

The Kingdom isnt independent. So the line: "Doing so has become a signal of one’s desire for the Kingdom to remain an independent entity, free of the political and cultural influence of the Amarr Empire." Donst make sense, it should be: "Doing so has become a signal of one’s desire for the Kingdom to become again an independent entity, free of the political and cultural influence of the Amarr Empire."[/i]

That's certainly reasonable. I'll make that change. And I appreciate your taking the time to give me feedback.

[Publius Valerius]

Publius, I have a hard time finding why you are so vocally grrring here.

It seems quite obvious to me that Makkal purpose isn't to create a whole language -and, by the way, since most created languages OOC are just sketches, I find kinda rad to create an IC language that is just sketches.

Your opinion. Next you will already guess what my is? 

As for the canonicity of Makkal's worldbuilding : "it's a big cluster, after all."
Why wouldn't a small portion of the Khanid kingdom's population keep loyal to the Empire and looking for tiny bits of their former culture ?

Maybe.... BUT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING which he had do explain (how they get this "tiny bits of their former culture"; moreover if you think, that they - the khanid - were already for 10 thousend years pre-space area part of the empire. It would be like knowing the language of Homo erectus (just to put it in a time frame).

Correct. This isn't an attempt to make a cultural construct for the majority of Khanid. Loyalist/separatist Khanid are, as I understand, a minority.

For me, one of the pleasures of playing a citizen of the Kingdom is the feeling that you must work with two nations that are much more powerful than you culturally and politically, but you still want to keep something that's uniquely yours. A lot of people see the Ammatar as the Empire's 'lapdog,' which isn't fair, and someone in the Kingdom might want to make sure they don't become a 'lapdog' for the State or Empire.

Ehm. I think Eterene mention already the Kingdom had bow before Jamyl...etc... so on the "lapdog" front it looks bitter. P.S. The main reason why I have left the game, and deleted all my wiki work (sadly I can deleted the stuff which is already canon and/or was copy by Eterne from me ).

P.S. If you want to make the Kingdom less of an lapdag, then fight that it becomes independent again. How can you do this? By sending Eterne a mail, and ask him if he can explain his points from the EvE forum.

As for me, (1) I had already to much stress with this guy on the wiki time.... (2) I dont know if my account is still banned (you guess right, for asking Eterne again and again). (3) I have always a hard time by dealing with hard heads.... and Eterne would rather kill himself (or bann me), as saying he is wrong (I just remember all the Jamyl shit on the wiki). By the way can someone pumb this: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Modern_Era_of_the_Amarr_Empire Its the last page of Eterne.... so far Abraxes had change all Eternes errors; so it would be great if someone pumbs it (as I said, I dont belive Eterne changes any errors on his pages or News).

[Adreena Madeveda]

Publius, I have a hard time finding why you are so vocally grrring here.

It seems quite obvious to me that Makkal purpose isn't to create a whole language -and, by the way, since most created languages OOC are just sketches, I find kinda rad to create an IC language that is just sketches.

Your opinion. Next you will already guess what my is? 

Hmmmm... Uselessly long, rant-y, hardly decipherable ? Or was it a rhetorical question ?

[ArtOfLight]

I like the effort you're putting into it, Makkal. I think a Khanid "dialect" is a good idea, particularly if it branches into a bit of their own ancestral language origins.

Yes, the Amarr and Khanid shared Athra, but they were two separate and distinct people, it stands to reason that they had their own language at one point. While they have likely adopted the common language of the Amarr, I imagine certain terminologies and phrases would have carried over, even if they remain common only between Khanid.

[Adreena Madeveda]

And rather than just stating an opinion, I'll give you my thoughts, Publius.

Allow me to start with some data concerning the real language I know best : le french.
My go-to grammar, Le Bon Usage, is 1600 pages long.
My go-to paperback dictionary, Le Petit Littré, is 2000 pages long and contains around 30 000 entries.
"core french" revolves around 4000 words, though 1000 are enough to sustain daily chat.

Le french isn't the most complicated language there is (it can't be that hard, I manage to speak it on a daily basis), either grammatically or vocabulary-wise.

Let's take a look at crafted languages, specifically those that are used in fiction and try to emulate the complexity and deepness of real ones. Tolkien's Quenya is often considered the most well-shaped and successful of them all.
Quenya's grammar : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Neo-Quenya.pdf 128 pages. With small pages. And big letters.
Quenya's dictionnary http://www.ambar-eldaron.com/telechargements/quenya-engl-A4.pdf scores a wooping total of 131 pages and about 2500 entries, many of them fan-made.

Le not-that-complicated french leaves Quenya in the dust. Woohoo.

Fictional languages can only try to emulate real languages' complexity. They are, by their very nature, barely sketches of what a language is.
Thus, Makkal's Khanid, that embraces this sketchy nature of fictional languages and makes it part of the fiction, is awesome and rad.


You said something like "we need a structure to speak a language". And I couldn't agree more. Learning a new language is far more than just learning new words.
Let's take a look at another awesome and rad proposition, Ava's Sebiestaaspjak. It only gives a glimpse of what Northern Sebiestor may be, and it was already a difficult thing to achieve -and she doesn't expect people to use it. Many other Eve-related fictional languages are barely a list of words, used to add a little flavor to roleplay.

And guess what ? It's perfectly fine. Take a deep breath, and repeat after me : "Player-created languages are often just a list of words, by nature sketches, and it's perfectly fine."
They're not created to be spoken, they're created for the simple pleasure of enjoying ourselves while we roleplay our characters.

If you want to speak another language, Publius, feel free and by all means, learn one. There are thousands of them out there, rich in history and literature. Go get them, tiger !