Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Natalcya Katla on 09 Apr 2013, 15:20
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One thing that I find extremely hugglefesting on a personal level though, even if not done intentionally, is people calling my character by her firstname. It does not happen only on Eve, but in most online roleplay venues I have been part of. I am not really sure why, maybe OOC bleedover - except for characters specifically designed to be dramatically friendly/buddy/familiar - but even strangers address to other characters by their firstnames. It tends to sound quite wrong to my ears. I just feel the need to ask if they know each other or who the hell do they think they are. Well, my character couldnt care less, but she still finds it a little confusing. Me on an OOC level, extremely confusing, and maybe wrongly, quite buddy-buddy.
This is due to differences in RL culture and language, I expect. I have Katla address people with whom she's not very familiar (and even some of her friends, such as they are) by their last names, but that's something I would find difficult to do in real life and in my own society, unless it was as part of a strictly formalized relationship (such as my year in the military). Having a stranger address me by my last name alone would be somewhat uncomfortable (them using my full name would actually be less so). If they in addition used the Norwegian equivalent of "mister" in front of my last name (those forms of address have almost faded completely from everyday language), that would cross the line into excessive politeness, and leave me wondering whether the person in question was being condescending or possibly about to beg me for a favor of some kind.
This is even more pronounced in Iceland, of course, where there are no (or at least few) family names. I once attended a conference where one of the speakers was Vigdis Finnbogadottir, former President of Iceland. She told a story about what I think was her first attendance at an international conference, where the organizers had indicated her seat with a sign reading "President Finnbogadottir" - which naturally offended her, because "daughter of Finnbogi" is not her name. "President Vigdis" would have been the correct form of address.
Sorry about the derail. :oops:
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One thing that I find extremely hugglefesting on a personal level though, even if not done intentionally, is people calling my character by her firstname. It does not happen only on Eve, but in most online roleplay venues I have been part of. I am not really sure why, maybe OOC bleedover - except for characters specifically designed to be dramatically friendly/buddy/familiar - but even strangers address to other characters by their firstnames. It tends to sound quite wrong to my ears. I just feel the need to ask if they know each other or who the hell do they think they are. Well, my character couldnt care less, but she still finds it a little confusing. Me on an OOC level, extremely confusing, and maybe wrongly, quite buddy-buddy.
Mammal calls everyone by their first names because he is an oddball mystic who thinks titles are stupid. Like Dumbledore.
Val generally calls people nicknames like: "Kitkat", "Nutbag" or "Moronface."
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I am not saying that people are doing it wrong by doing so. And I can easily imagine that a lot of you doing it have valid excuses for doing so. I just think that it is not everybody's case. Players naturally tend to call other players by their first names, being more familiar. That's a common thing amongst "youngsters" and people of the same generation. That's even more common on the internet, which is quite anti conformist by nature.
And most of all, we all play a game. Usually, people do not call each other by their formal last names when playing a game together, I think.
One thing that I find extremely hugglefesting on a personal level though, even if not done intentionally, is people calling my character by her firstname. It does not happen only on Eve, but in most online roleplay venues I have been part of. I am not really sure why, maybe OOC bleedover - except for characters specifically designed to be dramatically friendly/buddy/familiar - but even strangers address to other characters by their firstnames. It tends to sound quite wrong to my ears. I just feel the need to ask if they know each other or who the hell do they think they are. Well, my character couldnt care less, but she still finds it a little confusing. Me on an OOC level, extremely confusing, and maybe wrongly, quite buddy-buddy.
This is due to differences in RL culture and language, I expect. I have Katla address people with whom she's not very familiar (and even some of her friends, such as they are) by their last names, but that's something I would find difficult to do in real life and in my own society, unless it was as part of a strictly formalized relationship (such as my year in the military). Having a stranger address me by my last name alone would be somewhat uncomfortable (them using my full name would actually be less so). If they in addition used the Norwegian equivalent of "mister" in front of my last name (those forms of address have almost faded completely from everyday language), that would cross the line into excessive politeness, and leave me wondering whether the person in question was being condescending or possibly about to beg me for a favor of some kind.
This is even more pronounced in Iceland, of course, where there are no (or at least few) family names. I once attended a conference where one of the speakers was Vigdis Finnbogadottir, former President of Iceland. She told a story about what I think was her first attendance at an international conference, where the organizers had indicated her seat with a sign reading "President Finnbogadottir" - which naturally offended her, because "daughter of Finnbogi" is not her name. "President Vigdis" would have been the correct form of address.
Sorry about the derail. :oops:
Yes, but as far as I know english/american culture still uses Mr/Ms quite extensively, and my own puts even more the emphasis on formalism, and yet I have seen people of my own language doing the exact same thing on other online RP venues. I am pretty sure Japanese players (difficult to find more formal) would do exactly the same either (but I may be wrong).
In the case of north cultures it might be something widely spread IRL, but not here. And yet I see no difference. I think the reason behind it might be different.
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[mod]Split from the 'Driving other characters' thread.[/mod]
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n culture still uses Mr/Ms quite extensively...
Sadly not the case in my American experience (though it is impossible to classify it all into "American" because America is divided into regions with very different cultural expectations between them. However, in the southeast (the region in which I live), Mister and Missus have pretty much gone out the wayside. You get typical responses along the lines of "Mr. so and so was my dad, not me, call me [first name]." or "Do I look old enough to be a Missus, to you?"
Some people even take it as an insult if you use it. Not that it deters me at all, I still habitually address everyone as Mister or Missus until I'm on a very informal standing with them (friends, at least). My characters do this as well, except Malcolm who simply uses their last name except for his closest friends.
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I don't see it that much outside of impersonal and/or very formal contexts in England. Honestly, it'd weird me out a lot for someone not addressing me in some official capacity to constantly refer to me as Mr.; I hear it rarely enough that it just comes across as discomforting outside of work (teaching) or the formal.
As for my characters, I generally had Kyber address everyone by the first names, until someone insisted on a particular form of address -- at which point he'd do the opposite. Vaun was pretty uniformly a user of Mr./Ms., even with other Caldari; I never was fond of using Napanii myself, but if others want to, no skin off my back. Renaud pretty much exclusively employed the campest (and least creative) nickname I could quickly think of.
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"Once you quit hearing "Sir" and "Ma'am" the rest will follow"
http://poc.ramp.com/m/video/39018331/no-country-for-old-men-scene-66-int-coffee-shop-el-paso-night.htm (http://poc.ramp.com/m/video/39018331/no-country-for-old-men-scene-66-int-coffee-shop-el-paso-night.htm)
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n culture still uses Mr/Ms quite extensively...
Sadly not the case in my American experience (though it is impossible to classify it all into "American" because America is divided into regions with very different cultural expectations between them. However, in the southeast (the region in which I live), Mister and Missus have pretty much gone out the wayside. You get typical responses along the lines of "Mr. so and so was my dad, not me, call me [first name]." or "Do I look old enough to be a Missus, to you?"
Some people even take it as an insult if you use it. Not that it deters me at all, I still habitually address everyone as Mister or Missus until I'm on a very informal standing with them (friends, at least). My characters do this as well, except Malcolm who simply uses their last name except for his closest friends.
So how do you address a stranger if you can't use Mr/miss ?
I don't see it that much outside of impersonal and/or very formal contexts in England. Honestly, it'd weird me out a lot for someone not addressing me in some official capacity to constantly refer to me as Mr.; I hear it rarely enough that it just comes across as discomforting outside of work (teaching) or the formal.
And places like the Summit or the likes are not formal ? :eek:
We see strangers from every corner of space coming here. They are not our buddies. I wouldn't address someone I don't know like I would address my neighbor or my coworker...
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We see strangers from every corner of space coming here. They are not our buddies. I wouldn't address someone I don't know like I would address my neighbor or my coworker...
I was giving some RL context there; how characters decide to interpret the Summit isn't really my concern. :P
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So how do you address a stranger if you can't use Mr/miss ?
Depends on the situation. I mean if it's a party or a dinner or outing or something and you're just introduced to someone, you call em by the name they're introduced as. I.E.:
Guy 1: "Hey Michael! Nice to see you here! Have you met Nicole?"
Girl 1: "Hi! I'm Nicole! Nice you meet you Michael."
Guy 2: "Oh Mike's fine. Nice to meet you too!"
Or it could go like this:
CEO 1: "Hey Richard. Great to see you here. Have you met our new Chief Medical Officer here?"
CMO 1: "Dr. Robert Freedman. A pleasure to meet you."
Medical Exec: "Hello Dr. Freedman. I'm Dr. Richard Gorman. Welcome Aboard."
OPTIONAL:
CMO 1 : "Dr. Robert Freedman, but please call me Robert."
It depends on the situation. Normally those above you should be addressed by title unless said otherwise (i.e. Dr.) or you may say ma'am or sir, again, unless asked otherwise.
Initial business/networking encounters should be kept formal to provide an air of professionalism to shine you in a good light.
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I don't mind if people use first names or whatnot. What they do is their business, and some people are more "naturally informal" than others.
What I don't like, or rather what Samira doesn't like because she's been trained to be excessively polite, is getting told to refer to people informally. When you get in the habit of saying sir/ma'am to everyone, and then get asked to not do that, your sentences begin to feel very awkward and empty.
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Seems France and Germany are the last bastions of formal address.
That aside, Nico won't address certain people informally. And don't call her lady. <,< That's a "no no" in her book, being a commoner. Other cultures might dilude the natural order and call everything and anything 'lady', but there's a border drawn by Amarr.
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For Aldrith it's a double-edged sword. As with all proper Amarrians, formality is important to him. If he is formal with someone it usually means he is being respectful. If he speaks to someone informally it either means he fond of them or is insulting them. Meanwhile, he does not put a lot of credence on formality directed at him since he is a commoner Amarrian, but still does care when being addressed by strangers. He does not like to be called by first name if the speaker is unfamiliar or an enemy.
Formality means something different to every character and is dependant upon their individual cultures, social status and values.
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That's what I find weird, myself, the player. Like people that just doesn't know Lyn at all, just by name. They talk to her like if they were buddies. You know, the countless scenes I have had when she just steps up on the Summit to say something (relevant or not), and then someome completely random to answer "Lyn, it's precisely why..." or "Lyn, that's not what is..."
Something inside me, the player, screams to answer "Huh ? Do I know you ?"
However as I said above it mostly confuses the hell out of me. My character slightly too, but she doesn't care at all. You could call her "Ammatar witch" like Ssaka used to do, that she wouldn't really care, just take note. But considering the education she has had, addressing formally to everyone is rule number 1, and not bowing to someone is tantamount to losing face (like, anyone, even Cael). So, yes, it is obvious that it has to vary a lot between characters.
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So how do you address a stranger if you can't use Mr/miss ?
If you don't know their name? "Excuse me." (Or the Norwegian equivalent, anyway.)
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So how do you address a stranger if you can't use Mr/miss ?
If you don't know their name? "Excuse me." (Or the Norwegian equivalent, anyway.)
"Hey," also works. Assuming you're playing a character who'd use "Hey."
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For whatever reason, my characters have always combined gender-specific honorifics with a person's first name. Not really sure why.
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Something inside me, the player, screams to answer "Huh ? Do I know you ?"
I actually do that sometimes. I did it when Istvaan approached Ché at the Silas' festus, which prompted an entertaining response from Istvaan.
I don't usually do it in The Summit or other channels where I just assume that they can see who is connected and who is broadcasting, but when interacting with characters in the flesh, he will likely ask the question, if only in thought. The main reason is that he has trouble remembering names and faces.
But it does not matter wether the first or last name is used in this case, it will get the same response from Ché, and he actually prefers to be be called by his first name. For this reason, he is more likely to think he might have talked with someone before if they use his first name.
Ché can also forget if someone has allowed him to use informal address, and will then revert to formal address to be on the safe side.
If Ché wants to address someone he doesn't know, but he heard someone else addressing that person by first name, he will sometimes use that name if it's urgent, or if he mistakes that name for a surname.
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Something inside me, the player, screams to answer "Huh ? Do I know you ?"
I actually do that sometimes. I did it when Istvaan approached Ché at the Silas' festus, which prompted an entertaining response from Istvaan.
I don't usually do it in The Summit or other channels where I just assume that they can see who is connected and who is broadcasting, but when interacting with characters in the flesh, he will likely ask the question, if only in thought. The main reason is that he has trouble remembering names and faces.
But it does not matter wether the first or last name is used in this case, it will get the same response from Ché, and he actually prefers to be be called by his first name. For this reason, he is more likely to think he might have talked with someone before if they use his first name.
Ché can also forget if someone has allowed him to use informal address, and will then revert to formal address to be on the safe side.
If Ché wants to address someone he doesn't know, but he heard someone else addressing that person by first name, he will sometimes use that name if it's urgent, or if he mistakes that name for a surname.
I do the same thing. Shin'll give someone a jaundiced look and say something like "Pardon me, but do I know you?"
Shin is a bit of an odd duck, though. She used to be extremely informal with everyone, and still tends to behave this way. At the same time, Zaitsev groomed her extensively while she was in the Omerta Syndicate, so she sometimes falls back into these extremely old-fashioned modes of Caldari etiquette.
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Morwen generally tries to be friendly and polite when she interacts with people. (Obviously this isn't always how it ends up, but she makes an effort at it, honest!) As a result, here's how she does it:
- If someone does not introduce themselves otherwise or have an outwardly obvious preference, she will opt for a first name if she can find it.
- If she can't find a first name, she'll go with the most appropriate title she can find (this sometimes ends up being "Miss" or "Mister", but may vary based on the person's origin/affiliations) and surname. For example, Amarrians who she can find out are Holders or similar, she will often opt for Lord/Lady <surname> first.
- If someone is already being actively addressed in a particular manner and appears to approve of it or at least be comfortable with it, she will start with that right off the bat.
- If someone asks her to use a particular form of address, she will always attempt to remember to use that instead.
As for people addressing her, she's similar there.
- She generally prefers people use her first name, and will typically introduce herself by her first name only, except when it's business.
- She'll accept people using her surname if a title is attached to it. Whether it's Miss, Mlle., Director, Captain, Pilot, Saategashira (her old Veto rank), or something else appropriate she doesn't care, as long as one is used. She gets intensely annoyed by people using her last name without a title, because she associates it with people who (in her mind) did not treat her very well or very kindly.
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I'm not shy about correcting people to call Lasairiona, Lasa instead. But I don't care if people call me Lasa or Miss Raske. If people have an issue, they should say so!
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If memory serves, I have managed to avoid this issue so far. Might have slipped once or twice (though not as I can recall) but I usually make an effort to start on a last-name basis, and while I have not done 'face to face' RP in quite a while, I try to keep in mind that when you meet someone in the flesh, there is no convenient auto-ID running to tell you who and what they are. You ask, unless you recognize them from somewhere else.
Have also avoided this happening to me mostly by the fact that my new char bio is not done yet so I have not updated the in-game bio since before I started to actively RP on BB again. I should look into fixing that, I guess...
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You have no head-ware giving you an auto identification when out of pod? :o
Inherent implants does provide that as a standard with all their memory augmentations and they have a great customer service. ;)
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Seems I miss all the interesting threads these days, the days fly by too fast. :bash:
From Sak's perspective, while she enjoys being given flattering titles, they're irrelevant in the end. The only true titles that mean anything in the long-run are a person's name, and their family's name. They are diminished or reinforced with every fight, every argument, every joule of energy sunk into effort and exertion. Even then, what other people think of you is irrelevant, but for the few you respect and care about, and above all else, yourself.
Not to mention that at the end of the day, why be formal? All capsuleers are demigods, roaming the skies with fortunes and weaponry that could level empires of old. Why address someone as "Miss", or "Mister", other than to just be polite? Even then, why is it assumed that one is being impolite if a first name is used? In short, she doesn't care about titles, and if someone gets offended by that, fine by her.
... of course, she'd be the first one to go on about how she's some goddess of death, and how her lethality and beauty should make her important. Just a bit egotistic, right? :P