Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Mizhara on 02 Dec 2010, 16:38
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Right, so we all end up with livestock in our cargoholds and hangars at some point. Selling them through the market would make you a slavetrader, registered one at that, but what else can you do with them? How do you handle livestock without leaving a papertrail saying 'You're a slavetrader!' behind? Just trashing them brings to mind the character deletion sound, so I don't want to kill them off either. Especially not in Minmatar space...
... so what to do? What's your solution?
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Gradient has a "Ex-Slave orientation program" where we have an office devoted to collecting "slaves" and it has such goods as Vitoc, food, medicines, various high tech toys (yes, holo's and audio visual equipment) and we pretend in the background that these people are being helped back into society, got jobs or contact with their clans etc.
One day (maybe) CCP will allow us to do that using the In-game tools, and we'll actually do it.
I personally have a station container where all my janitors, marines, militants and exotic dancers are free to live as long as they feel like it...
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Well, you could allow Inara to take care of them. And to ease your conscience about "selling" people, she'll even be willing to do this without dirtying your wallet with transactions related to such business.[/semi-serious sarcasm]
TBH, I'd just keep them laying around for that eventual mechanic where they allow you to free them (or enslave them; which is why I have all kinds of passenger cargo in my hangars). I trained Rocket Spec IV a few years ago, because I knew they'd fix rockets, it just takes them a little bit of time to get around to it.
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The problem then, Inara, is that one becomes a slave owner instead of trader. I'd take Gradient's offer if it didn't mean ferrying contraband around Matari space, heh.
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Sorry, can't tell, sensitive info etc.
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I dunno, game mechanics fuck us over pretty bad with the whole slaves/freed slaves issue. It's a very old problem which I think most of us have just decided to more or less ignore, and hand-wave it instead due to the limitations of the game.
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If you have an Orca, you can move it with impunity (and it's not an exploit according to multiple petitions to confirm). If you don't have an Orca, talk to Marcus Gord the CEO of PRELI; he's a good businessman that would move them for you for a small fee.
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Trashing them = freeing them.
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Really? And here I took a perverse delight in trashing my excess civillians, imagining them slowly being lowered into a trash compactor.
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Trashing them = freeing them.
Only in a Minmatar station. ;)
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Don't. Have you character go insane because the technical limitations of a game designed by Icelanders 26 millenia ago force her to be such.
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Trashing them = freeing them.
Yes!
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I just keep them. Give them jobs and titles and places to sleep in the hangar. They learn to love living under my rule. Why? Can't bring myself to 'trash' them, I suppose.
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On Jari, take em to Min space, delete them in a station, call it freeing.
On my Amaar...sell em so hard their head spins.
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I trade in slaves so its not a problem for me.
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The problem then, Inara, is that one becomes a slave owner instead of trader. I'd take Gradient's offer if it didn't mean ferrying contraband around Matari space, heh.
Gradient accepts slaves anywhere. Just contact us IC, the corp does not do OOC business. ;)
There actually used to be a mechanism of sorts for freeing slaves. Some Republic agents would give out missions where they had slots in Republic programs to fill. CCP removed it a few years ago. :(
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I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have.
If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.
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I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have.
If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.
And all Amarr loyalists could be called heretics for trading in exotic dancers. i never did figure out why EM or UK didn't pull that one with the 'slaver investigations'.
When I paid attention to such things with Chell, I just didn't pick anything I didn't want crowding my hangars up. "How can you abandon your tribal brothers in space !?!"
- Damned if you do...
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Can they? I'm not as familiar with Amarrian PF as I perhaps should be, but I don't recall seeing a lot of information that indicated they had strong Puritan tendencies. The taboos against cloning ("godflesh") didn't seem sexual in nature. This always seemed to me like a player assumption based on current-era mores of theocrats and Christians.
But as I noted, there could be a lot of stuff I've missed.
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Exotic dancing is considered an art form, even though not everyone might agree. Exposing the flesh in public places may be perfectly acceptable within the Federation, but in the Amarr Empire it's considered a grave sin and a sign of serious deviancy.
Item description.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exotic_Dancers
So what would a loyal non deviant Amarrian be doing selling such -Illegal, iirc- things?
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I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have.
If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.
Please feel absolutely free to call Gradient (or EM in general, I assume) on having sold slaves on the market. If we find a member has, we will treat it as trading.
When you sell slaves on the market, you benefit from that financially. Doing so is a conscious choice on how you use game mechanics, and I think it is fair to call someone on it. You do not, after all, have to sell slaves to get rid of them; if you do not want to do anything about them or keep them in your hangars, you can always silently "trash" them and claim you set them free on the station.
(Obviously, sometimes someone makes a mistake with "sell all". Then you treat it ICly as a mistake.)
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Exotic dancing is considered an art form, even though not everyone might agree. Exposing the flesh in public places may be perfectly acceptable within the Federation, but in the Amarr Empire it's considered a grave sin and a sign of serious deviancy.
from "exotic dancer" object showinfo description.
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=11-04-07
also has a few things. Opening lines mention harlots, hmm. Anyway, later on there is:
"over there is Etu Gassa, whose beauty charmed you so that you ordered she be forced to dance naked in the court square every day at noon, in order that she not selfishly keep her beauty to herself."
Which says nudity in public is a Problem.
There is then the question of what is "Public" ?
E.g. the court, the chapel, the street, those places are public. No nudity there, Or Else!
Places like bars could be "public" or "private", depending on whether or not people can wander in off the street.
Private members clubs, for example, could have an exotic dancer, I think, since it's private.
The Amarr have been a religion for something like 15,000 years, so a lot of things are prohibited in public, but fine in private, because of the pragmatic approach. Can't repress things like that for 15,000 years, surely?
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Yea it's fairly safe to assume Amarr 'bans' are basically 'hey don't let us catch you' in most areas. Obviously the issue of GETTING your illegal thing to your home/bar/private club/etc is the main thing that'd keep people from doing it, but I'd say all but the most 'devout' areas turn a blind eye to hidden, private, use of these things.
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Cool, thanks for the clarification folks. :)
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Trashing them = freeing them.
Would be a good way to go. "Trashing" can mean just taking them off your books, literally pushing them out the door for them to find their own way to integrate back into the community.
Ever wonder how the scores of homeless people found in space stations accumulate there for those courier missions?
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http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=26-07-10
this chron is about this sort of thing.
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I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have.
If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.
Please feel absolutely free to call Gradient (or EM in general, I assume) on having sold slaves on the market. If we find a member has, we will treat it as trading.
When you sell slaves on the market, you benefit from that financially. Doing so is a conscious choice on how you use game mechanics, and I think it is fair to call someone on it. You do not, after all, have to sell slaves to get rid of them; if you do not want to do anything about them or keep them in your hangars, you can always silently "trash" them and claim you set them free on the station.
(Obviously, sometimes someone makes a mistake with "sell all". Then you treat it ICly as a mistake.)
Thats the type of thing I'm talking about Else, somebody accidently selling is most likely to be the reason so I'd consider it too petty to mention.
In hindsight I don't know why I never called the fact that the Amarr station in G-5EN2 was built using slaves provided by a certain EM member. Maybe because of the fact I approached him with buckets of isk with a deal and the deal went sour with the first load of slaves being killed by some trigger happy CVA - an embarrassment to both of us publicly.
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Thats the type of thing I'm talking about Else, somebody accidently selling is most likely to be the reason so I'd consider it too petty to mention.
I agree with you that simply calling someone on a one-time accidental sale would be petty. Back in the day when we did the slave trade survey stuff, we used to contact people and let them off the list if they said something like "thanks for notifying us, this is against our policy, we will investigate" and it did not obviously repeat often enough to speak contrary to the statement.
It was harder to deal with the supposed good guys whose response was "well it's each individuals business what they do with their property so fuck off" though. ;)
*nostalgia attack*
In hindsight I don't know why I never called the fact that the Amarr station in G-5EN2 was built using slaves provided by a certain EM member. Maybe because of the fact I approached him with buckets of isk with a deal and the deal went sour with the first load of slaves being killed by some trigger happy CVA - an embarrassment to both of us publicly.
:D Sounds like fun, and indeed one of those "let's go pretend this never happened" incidents.
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Please feel absolutely free to call Gradient (or EM in general, I assume) on having sold slaves on the market. If we find a member has, we will treat it as trading.
This.
As far as other people you pick up on your travels:
I have actually seen station containers named "Staff Quarters" in corporate hangars before, and I know a number of podders that keep a security contingent for anything they do out-of-pod, so I see why they would keep various military personnel.
Personally, because of customs warnings and the fact that I won't sell them, every slave I've ever picked up is presently resting in the first station I docked at after picking them up. I handwave that they were indeed set free, but I haven't even approached RE-AW or Gradient for the rehab programs they run, I let my trusted hangar staff handle such things.
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EM has run pickups of slaves that others have come across in mission drops and run them through high sec to the station that handles the relevant program. I wouldn't call keeping them on station until you can legally change their status owning slaves. I mean, it's not as though we paid money for them.
I, personally, don't feel happy trashing them and calling it freeing them. I'm just pissed that CCP can't be bothered to release, say, a BPO that lets you convert them to another passenger type (with, of course, a reverse one for those evil slaver types). If some other goods where components for it then it would even act as a minor Isk sink, and as far as I know they are always looking for ways to implement those.
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Since I dont run missions any more and *very few* amarr militia carry slaves as cargo, I don't really encounter this problem much. I have a few units that have sat in my "Not modules, ammo or cap charges" can for a while and I don't know what to do with them.
If any member of EM could tell me where to drop them off to be emancipated, I'd happily do so.
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If any member of EM could tell me where to drop them off to be emancipated, I'd happily do so.
Pop into our public channel "Public - EM" and ask for a private convo IC and something can be arranged, I'm sure.