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[Isobel Mitar]

The problem then, Inara, is that one becomes a slave owner instead of trader. I'd take Gradient's offer if it didn't mean ferrying contraband around Matari space, heh.

Gradient accepts slaves anywhere. Just contact us IC, the corp does not do OOC business.

There actually used to be a mechanism of sorts for freeing slaves. Some Republic agents would give out missions where they had slots in Republic programs to fill. CCP removed it a few years ago.

[Grr]

I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have. 

If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.

[Chell Charon]

I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have. 

If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.

And all Amarr loyalists could be called heretics for trading in exotic dancers. i never did figure out why EM or UK didn't pull that one with the 'slaver investigations'.

When I paid attention to such things with Chell, I just didn't pick anything I didn't want crowding my hangars up. "How can you abandon your tribal brothers in space !?!"

- Damned if you do...

[Casiella]

Can they? I'm not as familiar with Amarrian PF as I perhaps should be, but I don't recall seeing a lot of information that indicated they had strong Puritan tendencies. The taboos against cloning ("godflesh") didn't seem sexual in nature. This always seemed to me like a player assumption based on current-era mores of theocrats and Christians.

But as I noted, there could be a lot of stuff I've missed.

[Chell Charon]

Exotic dancing is considered an art form, even though not everyone might agree. Exposing the flesh in public places may be perfectly acceptable within the Federation, but in the Amarr Empire it's considered a grave sin and a sign of serious deviancy.

Item description.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exotic_Dancers

So what would a loyal non deviant Amarrian be doing selling such -Illegal, iirc- things?

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have. 

If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.

Please feel absolutely free to call Gradient (or EM in general, I assume) on having sold slaves on the market. If we find a member has, we will treat it as trading.

When you sell slaves on the market, you benefit from that financially. Doing so is a conscious choice on how you use game mechanics, and I think it is fair to call someone on it. You do not, after all, have to sell slaves to  get rid of them; if you do not want to do anything about them or keep them in your hangars, you can always silently "trash" them and claim you set them free on the station.

(Obviously, sometimes someone makes a mistake with "sell all". Then you treat it ICly as a mistake.)

[Louella Dougans]

Exotic dancing is considered an art form, even though not everyone might agree. Exposing the flesh in public places may be perfectly acceptable within the Federation, but in the Amarr Empire it's considered a grave sin and a sign of serious deviancy.

from "exotic dancer" object showinfo description.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=11-04-07

also has a few things. Opening lines mention harlots, hmm. Anyway, later on there is:
"over there is Etu Gassa, whose beauty charmed you so that you ordered she be forced to dance naked in the court square every day at noon, in order that she not selfishly keep her beauty to herself."

Which says nudity in public is a Problem.

There is then the question of what is "Public" ?

E.g. the court, the chapel, the street, those places are public. No nudity there, Or Else!

Places like bars could be "public" or "private", depending on whether or not people can wander in off the street.

Private members clubs, for example, could have an exotic dancer, I think, since it's private.


The Amarr have been a religion for something like 15,000 years, so a lot of things are prohibited in public, but fine in private, because of the pragmatic approach. Can't repress things like that for 15,000 years, surely?

[Jari Katir]

Yea it's fairly safe to assume Amarr 'bans' are basically 'hey don't let us catch you' in most areas. Obviously the issue of GETTING your illegal thing to your home/bar/private club/etc is the main thing that'd keep people from doing it, but I'd say all but the most 'devout' areas turn a blind eye to hidden, private, use of these things.

[Casiella]

Cool, thanks for the clarification folks.

[Graanvlokkie]

Trashing them = freeing them.

Would be a good way to go. "Trashing" can mean just taking them off your books, literally pushing them out the door for them to find their own way to integrate back into the community.

Ever wonder how the scores of homeless people found in space stations accumulate there for those courier missions?

[Louella Dougans]

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=26-07-10

this chron is about this sort of thing.

[Grr]

I'd actually consider it pretty low to call out somebody for being a slave trader because they have sold some because of the limited game mechanics we have. 

If I were to treat such mechanics so rigidly, I could probably call out every major anti slavery group out there for slave trading over the years including EM and U'K.

Please feel absolutely free to call Gradient (or EM in general, I assume) on having sold slaves on the market. If we find a member has, we will treat it as trading.

When you sell slaves on the market, you benefit from that financially. Doing so is a conscious choice on how you use game mechanics, and I think it is fair to call someone on it. You do not, after all, have to sell slaves to  get rid of them; if you do not want to do anything about them or keep them in your hangars, you can always silently "trash" them and claim you set them free on the station.

(Obviously, sometimes someone makes a mistake with "sell all". Then you treat it ICly as a mistake.)

Thats the type of thing I'm talking about Else, somebody accidently selling is most likely to be the reason so I'd consider it too petty to mention.

In hindsight I don't know why I never called the fact that the Amarr station in G-5EN2 was built using slaves provided by a certain EM member.  Maybe because of the fact I approached him with buckets of isk with a deal and the deal went sour with the first load of slaves being killed by some trigger happy CVA - an embarrassment to both of us publicly.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

Thats the type of thing I'm talking about Else, somebody accidently selling is most likely to be the reason so I'd consider it too petty to mention.

I agree with you that simply calling someone on a one-time accidental sale would be petty. Back in the day when we did the slave trade survey stuff, we used to contact people and let them off the list if they said something like "thanks for notifying us, this is against our policy, we will investigate" and it did not obviously repeat often enough to speak contrary to the statement.

It was harder to deal with the supposed good guys whose response was "well it's each individuals business what they do with their property so fuck off" though.

*nostalgia attack*

In hindsight I don't know why I never called the fact that the Amarr station in G-5EN2 was built using slaves provided by a certain EM member.  Maybe because of the fact I approached him with buckets of isk with a deal and the deal went sour with the first load of slaves being killed by some trigger happy CVA - an embarrassment to both of us publicly.

Sounds like fun, and indeed one of those "let's go pretend this never happened" incidents.

[Altaen]

Please feel absolutely free to call Gradient (or EM in general, I assume) on having sold slaves on the market. If we find a member has, we will treat it as trading.

This.

As far as other people you pick up on your travels:
I have actually seen station containers named "Staff Quarters" in corporate hangars before, and I know a number of podders that keep a security contingent for anything they do out-of-pod, so I see why they would keep various military personnel.

Personally, because of customs warnings and the fact that I won't sell them, every slave I've ever picked up is presently resting in the first station I docked at after picking them up. I handwave that they were indeed set free, but I haven't even approached RE-AW or Gradient for the rehab programs they run, I let my trusted hangar staff handle such things.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

EM has run pickups of slaves that others have come across in mission drops and run them through high sec to the station that handles the relevant program. I wouldn't call keeping them on station until you can legally change their status owning slaves. I mean, it's not as though we paid money for them.

I, personally, don't feel happy trashing them and calling it freeing them. I'm just pissed that CCP can't be bothered to release, say, a BPO that lets you convert them to another passenger type (with, of course, a reverse one for those evil slaver types). If some other goods where components for it then it would even act as a minor Isk sink, and as far as I know they are always looking for ways to implement those.