EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources > The Summit (IG Channel Discussion)
Problems in summit moderation
Desiderya:
And this is why the Summit must be destroyed. You, Katrina, are not a moderator and a traitor! ;)
Now, with a bit less tongue-in-cheek:
It was a good response, Katrina.
As far as 'teaching people' goes: A plethora of warnings and timeouts should be enough for your typical person to analyze and adjust behaviour. Also, you may file this under "Diplomacy 101", if your starting position is terribly bad (you've been kicked out of a private channel), even if you think you're in the right, best not go in guns blazing, as this is unlikely to have the other party do you the favour of restoring your channel status. You have no right to get access to this channel, not by paying your sub, not by virtue of being a roleplayer. This sums this attempt up.
Katrina Oniseki:
--- Quote from: Lithium Flower on 30 May 2014, 12:00 ---Not only mods can have stresses and snap on peoples. By doing this you provoke snapping back, and, I don't know, either accept that snapping, or just mod both parties.
Otherwise you just use mod button for your own needs as an argument in conversation.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough response, but that simply isn't the reality of it. I know it's not fair, but when an authority figure snaps at you - snapping back is not a good idea. Trying that at work will get you fired. Trying that in school will get you detention. Trying that will the police will get you arrested. Trying that with mods will get you banned. In each respective scenario, you can contact the next authority tier: Human Resources (work), The Principal (school), A Lawyer (police), or Graelyn (mods).
Unfortunately for you, you managed to find yourself in poor relations with Graelyn too. You no longer have a next tier of authority available to support you. So, you're out of options.
--- Quote ---That's what I am saying: there were no warnings or teaching, where is the line.
Just ban.
Where was teaching or warning about that fight in the summit? Or any chat?
And last case?
Not just warning, or teaching, there wasn't any violation at all! I have reviewed logs for that day: several peoples said way worse things than Diana ever did. In fact, I never found a thing in this log even for smallest mute for Diana.
How to avoid THIS?.. Teach us maybe?
--- End quote ---
If you're going to say nobody tried to help, you should probably avoid saying it in front of me. I personally pulled you aside and chatted with you. Since the first day I became a moderator, I've tried to help you. I've talked to the other mods, I've talked to you, I've done it IC and OOC, in public and private. I've really tried to help you, and show you where the line should be drawn. I know others have done so as well, both moderators and regular users.
If you have somehow forgotten all our attempts to help you, or if you honestly believe that we did not try or do a good enough job - then our choice to give up on you is mostly validated. What we could do to help you wasn't working, so we stopped and banned you.
--- Quote ---Saying that certain moderator was not a moderator was over a month ago (or two months) with a ban, of course.
Ban for ignoring moderator was even longest ago.
For ban 16.05 reason is still not provided.
So, where are these warnings, teaching, etc etc?
--- End quote ---
All bans and actions are cumulative. Serving the length of a temporary ban or mute does not make the previous violation forgotten or waived. It will stack on top of any new ones.
In other words, all those things you were banned for months ago, they all were counted in total towards this permanent one, because they are part of a pattern of misbehavior.
Lithium Flower:
--- Quote from: Katrina Oniseki on 30 May 2014, 13:31 ---
--- Quote from: Lithium Flower on 30 May 2014, 12:00 ---Not only mods can have stresses and snap on peoples. By doing this you provoke snapping back, and, I don't know, either accept that snapping, or just mod both parties.
Otherwise you just use mod button for your own needs as an argument in conversation.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough response, but that simply isn't the reality of it. I know it's not fair, but when an authority figure snaps at you - snapping back is not a good idea. Trying that at work will get you fired. Trying that in school will get you detention. Trying that will the police will get you arrested. Trying that with mods will get you banned. In each respective scenario, you can contact the next authority tier: Human Resources (work), The Principal (school), A Lawyer (police), or Graelyn (mods).
Unfortunately for you, you managed to find yourself in poor relations with Graelyn too. You no longer have a next tier of authority available to support you. So, you're out of options.
--- End quote ---
I treat people, like they treat me.
If I do something wrong, well, I accept their snapping at me.
But if they do it without reason, I simply reply them with same.
When a moderator appears in conversation just to insult you, it is not healthy, and you simply can't ask me to be respectful to this person.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---That's what I am saying: there were no warnings or teaching, where is the line.
Just ban.
Where was teaching or warning about that fight in the summit? Or any chat?
And last case?
Not just warning, or teaching, there wasn't any violation at all! I have reviewed logs for that day: several peoples said way worse things than Diana ever did. In fact, I never found a thing in this log even for smallest mute for Diana.
How to avoid THIS?.. Teach us maybe?
--- End quote ---
If you're going to say nobody tried to help, you should probably avoid saying it in front of me. I personally pulled you aside and chatted with you. Since the first day I became a moderator, I've tried to help you. I've talked to the other mods, I've talked to you, I've done it IC and OOC, in public and private. I've really tried to help you, and show you where the line should be drawn. I know others have done so as well, both moderators and regular users.
If you have somehow forgotten all our attempts to help you, or if you honestly believe that we did not try or do a good enough job - then our choice to give up on you is mostly validated. What we could do to help you wasn't working, so we stopped and banned you.
--- End quote ---
I was telling about exact event happened ~2 months ago.
Neither you, nor anyone else did this.
You was contacting me, but about other things, like "genocidal behavior", that was waaay ago.
So, my claim remains in power, since I couldn't find where you was warning me about this rule. Maybe I am just stupid and forgot, but I couldn't find it in logs. If I am mistaken, please show where it was, and I will apologize for this.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---Saying that certain moderator was not a moderator was over a month ago (or two months) with a ban, of course.
Ban for ignoring moderator was even longest ago.
For ban 16.05 reason is still not provided.
So, where are these warnings, teaching, etc etc?
--- End quote ---
All bans and actions are cumulative. Serving the length of a temporary ban or mute does not make the previous violation forgotten or waived. It will stack on top of any new ones.
In other words, all those things you were banned for months ago, they all were counted in total towards this permanent one, because they are part of a pattern of misbehavior.
--- End quote ---
You still haven't answered, what exact was said incorrect for ban 16.05.
For sure, there wasn't any genocidal behavior!
Where was that violation, that I was asked not to do, or rule that was stated anywhere?
Date, time, exact phrase, and rule that it violated or when I was asked not to do this?
Eh?..
Besides, since you started about "pattern" of misbehavior, maybe you could list exact dates and times of each violation maybe? Because I don't remember much of misbehavior in this channel, while many others were misbehaving way more often. Do you want to start looking through all logs? We could do this.
Of course, just for start the violation for ban 16.05 would do, after that we could talk more about... "patterns".
Katrina Oniseki:
As far as I know, the final ban was triggered because Graelyn was, quite literally and quite simply, tired of hearing your name come up again and again. He banned you because he doesn't want you in the channels anymore, and doesn't want to hear about or from you, or any of your alts.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the reason is that the channel owner actually dislikes you now. In that case, there isn't anything else we have to explain to you - because it's not even in our hands anymore.
In other words, talking about it any further is pointless. I've said my piece. If others want to continue the discussion, they can... but even if you were completely satisfied with my answers (highly unlikely), nothing will change.
You're pretty much never coming back until Graelyn decides otherwise.
V. Gesakaarin:
I think there's something to be said about either antagonizing some of the people all of the time or antagonizing all of the people some of the time in RP. Choosing to actively antagonize all of the people all of the time will probably lead to: a) non-engagement/hostility/ambivalence/apathy, and/or b) frustration/annoyance/complaints being made to Summit mods. I can see why Diana Kim as a character would have been banned from the Summit because from what I've seen they probably antagonize a lot of people by turning the channel into a toxic environment that makes discussion between others difficult or impossible due to continued in-character bigotry and vilification.
While there's nothing wrong with having a prejudiced or bigoted character in principle, that doesn't mean a degree of common-sense or judgement should not be exercised in trying to balance that in-character antagonism with the expectations of fellow users of a channel who likely have little desire to be exposed to in-character hate speech day in and day out by someone else.
You asked for what rules were violated and at the top of Summit MOTD in bold red font it says, "Be Tactful". Seems a pretty simple rule to follow in-character.
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