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[Silas Vitalia]

The Marauders thread is ridiculously full of drama. Normally I dislike baltec1's posts, but he is doing God's Work in that thread.

Dinsdale is crying endlessly about his loss of a web, apparently Marauders are forever useless without them and things will never be the same again.

That said, Marauders do get a damage bonus in this. The extension to optimal and falloff means you can hit your maximum damage at longer ranges, I'm getting rail like distances with blasters on a Kronos for example. Rail Kronos become supercharged snipers that can apply from a range beyond other people's optimal and comfortably soak up what hits it takes.

I see a miss-match when a tank bonus is combined with a sniping bonus, no synergy

Speaking of which I would really really love to see more of a 'blink' specialist sort of ship, with super good MJD recharge and Optimal bonuses, but fragile glass cannon tank.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Rebuttal

Needs DPS or Utility (neuts, jams, webs) to be very useful for pvp.  Overtank doesn't help all that much in group settings if more than a few ships in play.  If the overtank ship isn't being shot at its bonus is effectively useless. Utility ships and DPS are useful when they aren't being shot at.

Spending $1 billion + on a boat that's good at being shot at might not be particularly useful when that same money can buy you things that kill things faster.

It will be sexy bait ship, or overtanked 'please shoot me' distraction ship for pvp.  And an awesome mission and awesome incursion ship.

I like the MJD cool-off sniper applications, but not for that price. I think you can put a few snipeyapocs on field with MJD for the price of one of these?

I think you can put a group of something equal or better on field for any 1B+ ship, including Vindicators and Bhaalgorns. I'm not sure that's an effective argument for why it isn't worthwhile.

That said, I can see where you're coming from on the useless bonus thing, but by that logic any tank bonus is useless. Why have tank bonuses at all if it's not being shot at?

Maybe I'm arguing in circles here or something, but I honestly don't see this as a travesty. I think the ships got a new lease on life, and I'm not particularly miffed if they didn't become the next best thing for PvP when there's plenty of great things in PvP already.

[Silas Vitalia]

Not miffed at all, don't consider it a travesty. I wasn't using them in pvp anyway before this.  Wacky new ships and bonuses are cool and things (tm) will be figured out.  Most every ship we use at one point had horribad or rediculous OP things.

Just trying to understand the logic behind the bonuses.  The optimal thing is cool for high damage blasters, but the mid and long range weapons, if you are tagging people long range with a full set or range bonuses, you probably aren't getting shot back verymuch.

Just curious on opinions and how one would use them effectively when they put that much cash on-field.

My EFT-warrior-Fu is weak, I don't know how this ship quite stacks up for it's bastion-mega tank vs say getting reps from one or two t2 logis?

[Caellach Marellus]

The Marauders thread is ridiculously full of drama. Normally I dislike baltec1's posts, but he is doing God's Work in that thread.

Dinsdale is crying endlessly about his loss of a web, apparently Marauders are forever useless without them and things will never be the same again.

That said, Marauders do get a damage bonus in this. The extension to optimal and falloff means you can hit your maximum damage at longer ranges, I'm getting rail like distances with blasters on a Kronos for example. Rail Kronos become supercharged snipers that can apply from a range beyond other people's optimal and comfortably soak up what hits it takes.

I see a miss-match when a tank bonus is combined with a sniping bonus, no synergy

Speaking of which I would really really love to see more of a 'blink' specialist sort of ship, with super good MJD recharge and Optimal bonuses, but fragile glass cannon tank.

Except you stick blasters on it and it becomes an awesome brawler that hits out beyond pointrange with pretty decent tracking.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I think the range bonuses shine with the short range ammo. Think about it. The bonuses turn the short range high damage ammos into medium range ammos. Void becomes the new Null, Conflag becomes the new Scorch, Hail becomes the new Javelin. Torps become... uhh... well, torps still aren't all that great compared to the newly buffed application and damage of cruises.

[Caellach Marellus]

I think the range bonuses shine with the short range ammo. Think about it. The bonuses turn the short range high damage ammos into medium range ammos. Void becomes the new Null, Conflag becomes the new Scorch, Hail becomes the new Javelin. Torps become... uhh... well, torps still aren't all that great compared to the newly buffed application and damage of cruises.

This.

And if you want slightly better range you can trade off a few points of damage and tracking and use short range Faction ammo.

[Silas Vitalia]

The optimal bonus only works if bastion is activated right? I guess this makes more sense as you'll be sitting still during activation?

I'd like it much more if Bastion was an all or nothing slider sort of thing, 'FULL POWER TO WEAPONS' or 'FULL POWER TO TANK' that you decide before you turn it on, with either application severely nerfing the other.  Two different isotopes maybe for the different applications.

Then you get into neat tradeoffs where a few mauraders activate WTF bbq ability and become immediate threats, rather then them turning it on and nobody shooting them for a few minutes and focusing on their gangmates.  They could even have the same visual que so you'd have to really guess which way they went, forcing you to waste time shooting ultimate tank while their friends nail you.

 

[Ghost Hunter]

I still have trouble seeing the value of being fixed for a minute in space when you can be probed down and warped to...

Unless they're thinking the tanking bonus is enough to survive getting jumped by everyone?

[Caellach Marellus]

I still have trouble seeing the value of being fixed for a minute in space when you can be probed down and warped to...

Unless they're thinking the tanking bonus is enough to survive getting jumped by everyone?

You're vulnerable to Alpha, but you tank non burst damage like a boss.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I still have trouble seeing the value of being fixed for a minute in space when you can be probed down and warped to...

Unless they're thinking the tanking bonus is enough to survive getting jumped by everyone?

You're vulnerable to Alpha, but you tank non burst damage like a boss.

This, and simply knowing your weakness should prevent you from getting yourself in a situation where true alpha is a problem. Don't bastion if there's a gang of tornadoes in the mix, because you can't tank that.

The optimal bonus only works if bastion is activated right? I guess this makes more sense as you'll be sitting still during activation?

I'd like it much more if Bastion was an all or nothing slider sort of thing, 'FULL POWER TO WEAPONS' or 'FULL POWER TO TANK' that you decide before you turn it on, with either application severely nerfing the other.  Two different isotopes maybe for the different applications.

Then you get into neat tradeoffs where a few mauraders activate WTF bbq ability and become immediate threats, rather then them turning it on and nobody shooting them for a few minutes and focusing on their gangmates.  They could even have the same visual que so you'd have to really guess which way they went, forcing you to waste time shooting ultimate tank while their friends nail you.

I like this idea. You should post it on F&I.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Programming difficulties aside, the primary difficulty I see in that is that if the "swap-over" were instantaneous it would allow you to effectively take on two specialized roles in battle - and EVE ships either tend to be "sorta good at many things" (the T1 dynamic) or "very good at one thing" (the T2 dynamic).

[Elmund Egivand]

Programming difficulties aside, the primary difficulty I see in that is that if the "swap-over" were instantaneous it would allow you to effectively take on two specialized roles in battle - and EVE ships either tend to be "sorta good at many things" (the T1 dynamic) or "very good at one thing" (the T2 dynamic).

Except HACs.

[Silas Vitalia]

I like this idea. You should post it on F&I.

done!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287288&find=unread

[Lyn Farel]

The Marauders thread is ridiculously full of drama. Normally I dislike baltec1's posts, but he is doing God's Work in that thread.

Dinsdale is crying endlessly about his loss of a web, apparently Marauders are forever useless without them and things will never be the same again.

That said, Marauders do get a damage bonus in this. The extension to optimal and falloff means you can hit your maximum damage at longer ranges, I'm getting rail like distances with blasters on a Kronos for example. Rail Kronos become supercharged snipers that can apply from a range beyond other people's optimal and comfortably soak up what hits it takes.

I wonder if I should swap my pally for a blapping kronos... How far with antimatter again ?

[Caellach Marellus]

Using my proposed fit 6.8+34.  Void (which is actually a lot better in paper DPS.) is 10+17, Null is 19+47.


My only question now is that +50 m3. Do I go with 5 hammerheads or 2x sentries and drop one of the repair rigs for a sentry rig.

Edit: Already answered, 5 Hammerheads it is.

Yay for a 1600 DPS mission boat.