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[Sabbott]

Just wanted to point out some observations I made in EVE-o the past while from observing those who roleplay pirate characters or those apart or aligned to pirate factions/corps in Eve RP, and how most of them revel in being evil/bad IC.  like bio's filled with concord advisory's and how evil they are..  

I mean for instance to my character, apart of a Sani Sabik sect, to Sabbott we are the ones of truth, our enemys are evil, the Amarr Empire etc. they try to kill and eradicate our faith and way of life. just as a RL jihadist feels they are fighting crusaders, those invading their homelands, against their faith, Sabbott feels the same and doesn't even consider himself a pirate.  Even in cold blooded murder he is showing compassion to those suffering a lowly existence.  Blood Raiders = Good guys, he's deluded.

I could see the same for the Sansha's, they are more civilized, a "Nation" and no religion and more infrastructure, Intaki Syndicate with the Federation, the same thing, they should all view themselves as good & not pirates IC, sure OOC people playing on those sides like idea of being evil/pirates etc, but it shouldnt bleed so much IC.  So in closing i know OOC ppl like being evil or outlaw IC .... but IC they shouldn't let it show so much it really doesn't make it very interesting for roleplay, I am not saying all do, but the majority I have observed do.


What are your thoughts?

[Syn Callibri]

Well, in short what I would say is that good and evil...right and wrong are nominally a matter of perspective. The Amarr holders see enslavment as "enlightening and saving" as an example.

[Sabbott]

Exacly, just as to Amarr they are good &  minmatar freedom fighters are heathens, terrorists etc... Minmatar view themselves as opressed and their hostility as the only way to stay free peoples. they view themselves as freedom fighters not terrorists,  most people get that OOC, and keep to that style IC.

But with "most" pirate RPers theres a lack of that.... they know their evil, they bask in it. a lot act tough, brag how many they murder, how wanted they are, how much of an outlaw they are. so maybe you are implying they lack perspective ?

[Casiella]

I've looked in the past to try to figure out motivations specifically for piracy. For privateering, it's a bit easier, since that tends just to roll back up to whatever motivates the faction for which one is raiding commerce or whatever.

But getting into the head of somebody who kills and steals when other alternatives exist, including more profitable ones? That's a little more challenging for me.

In some cases, I think you could play it as cultural: somebody grew up in a family with lots of criminals, and that's what they've always known. Alternately, I could envision somebody with a bone to pick against society in general. Perhaps they use it to fund terrorist-type activities.

One could also include sociopaths, I suppose, but I think this is both overplayed and incorrectly understood by most people.

[GoGo Yubari]

To a large extent I think you are right.

However, there will always be folks who actually do revel in being bad guys or at least revel in not conforming to values imposed on them by society, while not really minding that society considers them the bad guys. Most likely perhaps they will simply not care about your definition of 'evil' (where they overlap with your definition), but they also might find it humorous or actually enjoy "the other's" characterization of them as evil.

For certain pirate groups in Eve should perhaps mostly be played as you outline : definitively Sansha's peeps and the Syndicate. The case for Blood Raiders is quite strong, but I'm not going to agree that it's the only way to go with them. Then there's folks like the Guristas and Angels, who might much better conform to the archetype I suggested in the last paragraph.

It's a group whose mentality can be very well presented by a few quotes:

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without police protection is both. It is as cowardly to betray an offender to justice, even though his offences be against yourself, as it is not to avenge an injury by violence. It is dastardly and contemptible in a wounded man to betray the name of his assailant, because if he recovers, he must naturally expect to take vengeance himself." - the code of Omertà

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."  - H. L. Mencken

Those two quotes most typify the archetypal pirate to me.

[Sabbott]

Yeah GoGo, I didnt mean other than those that don't seem like they "should" view themselves as ruthless pirates, Gurista's and Angels would for most extent even if exiled or outcasts ,  Bloods, Sansha, Syndicates... could but should be more like amarr/minmatar mentality i gave example of I would think... and that mostly isnt the case, Glad someone partially agree's  and I like those quotations as well    havnt seen you around since early days of Bleak Lands.. good to see you still around.

[Casiella]

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."  - H. L. Mencken

I've always really liked this quote for all the reasons anybody else would. Maybe you've decided it's the only way to accomplish some meaningful change. Maybe you've lost everything, including ties to normal society, and seek bloody vengeance.

Or, you know, basically just goes Falling Down on everybody's ass.

[Silver Night]

Also, on the 'killing and stealing' front and pirates in Eve - while OOC piracy distresses other players while something like say mission running doesn't (unless, like me, you are opposed to level 4s in high sec  ), IC piracy in most cases is going to result in fewer deaths than most non-piracy activities (mission running/ratting/exploring that involves shooting things).

The difference is that piracy involves engaging other podders/players. I think that there are a couple of perspectives on other podders that make piracy seem right, or 'not evil', or what have you.

[IzzyChan]

People could be doing piracy and under the table black market stuff cuz they don't like how their government run things to "stick it to the man" + freedom of doing what they want.  Honestly after seeing the crap the 4 main "good" factions do I can't say that I blame them.

[Casiella]

People could be doing piracy and under the table black market stuff cuz they don't like how their government run things to "stick it to the man" + freedom of doing what they want.  Honestly after seeing the crap the 4 main "good" factions do I can't say that I blame them.

This sort of reminds me of folks like Ushra'Khan, who fought for the Minmatar people while often opposing the Minmatar Republic. Lots of room for that even in Republic space, of course.

[IzzyChan]

Yus.  Some people might pirate for their own gain, some might pirate for the sake of others.  Robin Hood, amirite?

[Kazzzi]

But with "most" pirate RPers theres a lack of that.... they know their evil, they bask in it. a lot act tough, brag how many they murder, how wanted they are, how much of an outlaw they are.

Ever read about Edward Teach? He tried to appear turbo-evil.

[Sabbott]

Ever read about Edward Teach? He tried to appear turbo-evil.

Yeah that is good example just was reading on wikipedia, would make a good Guristas or Angel in eve   just think some aligned factions should'nt be played that way in my opinion, Sansha nation for instance is good candidate and those i already made examples of , Syndicate and maybe some sects of Blood raiders, but for most part I don't see any IC pirate aligned characters that see themselves as the "good" side, like Amarr/Minmatar both see each other as invaders/terrorists but are in fact to themselves the good side. etc

[Louella Dougans]

I've met someone (the opposing force in the Doll War), who is RP'ing a blood raider space nun.

Saying the amarr church is wrong because it excludes people, whereas the sani sabik allow everyone to embrace, regardless of bloodline and stuff.

Think that fits with viewing a pirate faction as the "good side" ?

[Sabbott]

I've met someone (the opposing force in the Doll War), who is RP'ing a blood raider space nun.

Saying the amarr church is wrong because it excludes people, whereas the sani sabik allow everyone to embrace, regardless of bloodline and stuff.

Think that fits with viewing a pirate faction as the "good side" ?

Yes, this is a good example of someone aligned to pirate faction, playing like they are the good side, but its rare to see, its more an exception than the norm.... not as such with the empire factions. who play as if they are good, even if they indeed want to seem evil to their enemys on oposing factions.  (Amar loyalists flaunting slavery etc.. and minmatar factions doing freedom activitys) both are viewed as just by each, but evil acts to the other side.