Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Saede Riordan on 11 Mar 2011, 10:31
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I'm really not sure if this is in my head or not, but it seemed interesting enough to share
Something really interesting I've recently noticed:
look at these two symbols next to each other:
(http://e.dotlan.net/images/corp/128/1000150.png)(http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/images/d/d9/Angel_Cartel.jpg)
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To follow up...
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1003/Amarr_symbols.JPG (http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1003/Amarr_symbols.JPG)
The six symbols from Signs of Faith chronicle.
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By Jove I think you're onto it. ;) Though uh... you might want to double check which one is the chicken and which one is the egg.
Just food for thought.
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By Jove I think you're onto it. ;)
All we have is a rough shape in common, not onto anything yet :p
Wonder what the shape is supposed to be. A bull? The devil?
edit: Ho'dup... a bull?
From Ray of Matar:
Mattmar rose to his feet and the conductor placed a black mantle around his head and shoulders, covering him completely. It would be removed once the mark had appeared. Everyone waited in anticipation; the minutes ticked by. Finally the conductor declared that the mark had appeared and removed the mantle. Mattmar looked down, then turned towards the crowd. The bull-mark, the horned triangle, was sitting squarely in the middle of his chest. It was the ultimate place for such a mark. Mattmar beamed with pride when the crowd enthusiastically applauded. He took his place on the plateau among those already tested, his haughty manners disgusting Karin.
Oh god connections! The voluval being a secret Jovian genotype monitoring method is starting to make more sense... :|
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edit: Ho'dup... a bull?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marduk
AMAR.UTU, or AMAR.UD.
Amarrian... Udorian...
Also, Marduk being associated with the planet Jupiter...
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Viddy viddy intedesting...
It would seem we keep coming back to the ancient Babylonians. I hate to bring it up, but... Enheduanna was from around that era :F
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So we have one basic shape, seen a number of times in different guises. That shape is a hollow polygon, with horns. Something interesting is that each shape is distinctive enough that other cultures stop seeing it within each other. People don't normally look at the Angel and Jovian symbols side by side. People don't normally make the connection between the amarrian symbol and the Ray of Matar. I think its obvious the Jovian symbol came first, and , however, my mind comes back to something that, yes, I know has been discussed before:
Little is known about the identities of the leaders of the Angel Cartel, though it is understood they come from all the races.
And this:
The majority of the Jovian population relocated in the Motherships. Those showing any sign of the Disease were left behind to die.
Being Left behind to die, does not me that they did.
But lets step back from that. I think...fuck, holy crap.
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/11712/1554679-no_we_need_to_go_deeper_super.jpg)
half the symbols in eve can be reduced to a horned hollow shape.
Jovian symbol, Cartel symbols, Amarrian symbols, Ray of Matar, Guristas Bunny, Blood Raider Skull, Ammatar Mandate, Thukker Tribe
But I don't think these are of...well, what we think of as Jovian...in origin. I think its something older then this. We're going deeper.
In the symbols we all see in eve, the horns or crescent all feature the polygon dot across or below the horns, which makes sense, looking at it in the context of the "Signs of Faith" chronicle. (incidentally this is something I think I unconsciously realized when designing the Risen Angels symbol, since its "risen" angels, the dot is above the horns)
where else is the dot above the horned shape?
The Oruze Construct.
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I see the diverse spread of this symbol as subtle evidence of Jovian meddling in each of these societies.
Brings up another question: what is the enemy of the bull? Did Marduk have some kind of antagonist-god?
Enheduanna was a priestess of Inanna, whose sign was an eight-pointed star.
edit: Aaaaaaaaaand how many points would this (http://media.photobucket.com/image/%22oruze+construct%22+/koronakesh/Wormholes/20090419165019.jpg) have, if the circle were complete?
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Everybody check their totems.
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Hehehe, you're missing the point. :twisted:
The Jove? No no no...
"7 The sefrim offered unto the emperor a present from God as one brother to another: Ametat the Scepter and Avetat the Crown, showing the great pleasure God had in the earthly work of the emperor."
- The Scriptures, Chapter I of the Epitoth
::Whistles innocently.::
In other words, if the Amarr and the Gallente have languages that share root words, and those root words are from the first settlers of New Eden...
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Hehehe, you're missing the point. :twisted:
The Jove? No no no...
"7 The sefrim offered unto the emperor a present from God as one brother to another: Ametat the Scepter and Avetat the Crown, showing the great pleasure God had in the earthly work of the emperor."
- The Scriptures, Chapter I of the Epitoth
::Whistles innocently.::
In other words, if the Amarr and the Gallente have languages that share root words, and those root words are from the first settlers of New Eden...
I'm not following :|
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Its a symbol, within two symbols, that's a larger symbol in total.
You just got INCEPTION'D.
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Sometimes thoughts of my wife manifest themselves as runaway trains.
Also, seriously Nikita. You understand the implications, right? The real, ultimate, most dire realization of it all, correct? The deepest, darkest secret of the EVE storyline?
You have all the evidence. The poison apple, waiting for you to eat, as Hona says in The Burning Life.
"Are they human?"
"Not anymore."
Ever hear the story of Snow White?
Mirror, mirror, on the wall...
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This is getting silly.
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I think I get it.
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This is getting silly.
Maybe.
Then again, what's crazier; that the Jove left their own people to die and nothing was ever heard from them again, or that those that were abandoned fought tooth and nail against their fate?
Furthermore, if you had access to technology that could:
A. Keep your body intact (or at least genetic samples)
B. Download your mind into a machine that would keep you safe and (possibly) entertained
C. Be able to preserve yourself for a long, long time this way
Would you take a chance of that long sleep -- an unending dream -- with a snowball's chance in hell of waking up as opposed to dying?
There's only one possible explanation, given the evidence; either the evidence is incomplete, or the inevitable conclusion I have reached is the most likely scenario.
These then are the two points that I wanted to make. First, that human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it. Secondly, that they do not in fact behave in that way. They know the Law of Nature; they break it. These two facts are the foundation of all clear thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in.
-C. S. Lewis
The Jove are human. Therefore, they are capable of going against their nature. We have evidence of this. Would they preserve themselves if they had the chance? Would they take a chance at preservation as opposed to letting themselves die?
Also, parting shot:
Dagan (from the SoE Epic Arc) is The Broker. That may or may not be a serious theory. :P
Edit: Also, what's the biggest revelation? Everyone in New Eden are descended from Terran colonists. What happened after they colonized though, that's the big mystery.
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Enheduanna was a priestess of Inanna, whose sign was an eight-pointed star.
Careful Now >.>
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What I love about the conspiracy theorist mindset, is that they see tigers in all of the bushes.
The base of the Angels is at the home of the Jovians first and second Empire.
They saw the jovian symbols all over the place, being scavengers by nature they adopted it.
When it comes to the other symbols... there are several symbols that can be found in all societies that have similar significance.
Swastika, triangle pointed down, circle, bull horns, all that.
Some people say that its a clear indication that we have had extra-terrestial involvement in our development as species.
Some say that these symbols have supernatural significance and think they can harness magic by learning them.
There is even 'chariots of fire' in all sorts of mythologies all over the world, that means that there is UFOs afoot.
The simplest explanation is the simplest.
Our pattern recognition as a species works in a certain way.
We look at the clouds and see shapes in them.
We look at the constellations in the stars and see shapes in them.
We hear rustling in the bushes and believe that there is tigers in there.
For a species which is pretty much completely helpless against any predatory creature out there, only way to survive was to find patterns that would indicate danger so that you could run away from it even before the attack happened.
We have evolved to see tigers in the bushes.
Well, it does not mean that the underlying mathematical principles of evolution do not create similar patterns across plantlife and animal kingdom.
But it does not mean that there is intelligent design, UFOs or magic involved.
It's just your mind playing tricks on you.
Of course its fun to play around with your own mind patterns, but its easier with hallucinogenics and more likely to get you laid.
I really should eat breakfast before coming to the forums.
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What you said applies to reality, which doesn't have an intelligent designer. It does not apply to Eve Online, which was designed from the ground-up with an over-arching storyline, by fairly intelligent Icelandic geeks, the aspects of which we're only beginning to understand now. So it's entirely possible that they seeded common design - breadcrumbs to follow - throughout the plot.
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One of two things is true.
1). CCP is just awful enough at writing plot, structuring their universe, and working with literary devices that they would make some kind of overarching, outer space Freemasons-style conspiracy.
2). A creator decided to use a downward facing, triangular structure for more than one symbol.
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The end of Eve was written before Eve Online began. Of this I am 100% certain.
Hence my efforts of trying to decipher what that end will be :F
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Dawwwwww... Thats cute :D
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LAUGH ALL YOU WANT!
We'll see who's laughing when the Enheduanni come for our precious bodily fluids!
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You do know that easiest way to keep players interested and jumping at shadows is to be vague and make some insignificant detail seem important in some way.
Done that for years as a GM, and the theories, conclusions and 'facts' keep them occupied.
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LAUGH ALL YOU WANT!
We'll see who's laughing when the Enheduanni come for our precious bodily fluids!
Mandrake... have you ever seen an Enheduanni drink a glass of water?
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You do know that easiest way to keep players interested and jumping at shadows is to be vague and make some insignificant detail seem important in some way.
Done that for years as a GM, and the theories, conclusions and 'facts' keep them occupied.
You do know that jumping at shadows is pretty fun, right?
If I knew everything about Eve's future right now, that fun would end in that very instant.
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You do know that easiest way to keep players interested and jumping at shadows is to be vague and make some insignificant detail seem important in some way.
Done that for years as a GM, and the theories, conclusions and 'facts' keep them occupied.
You do know that jumping at shadows is pretty fun, right?
If I knew everything about Eve's future right now, that fun would end in that very instant.
honestly this. Everyone's facedesking for us making tin foil theories and quoting Inception, but its fun, so does it really need to get anywhere? can't we just have our fun?
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honestly this. Everyone's facedesking for us making tin foil theories and quoting Inception, but its fun, so does it really need to get anywhere? can't we just have our fun?
I does not need to lead anywhere at all! Please have your fun! Some of us are enjoying reading your theories.
Eve Online...was designed from the ground-up with an over-arching storyline, by fairly intelligent Icelandic geeks
This may require a bit of caution in understanding the universe. There may be links to classic SciFi Literature or the like.
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Everyone is free to have their fun. It doesn't mean that posting on a public site exempts people from creative critique or skeptical commentary. See; rogue drones, fiction pieces, Jovians, etc.
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For the record, when I make an Inception joke in threads like this, I do it out of pure love. I'm having fun reading this stuff, too. <3 <3 <3 (Yes, even for Istvaan :P )
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This is getting silly.
This was always silly.
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So's playing Internet spaceships.
So's roleplaying Internet spaceships.
Nothing wrong with that. ^_^
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Edit: Also, what's the biggest revelation? Everyone in New Eden are descended from Terran colonists. What happened after they colonized though, that's the big mystery.
They were all cloned. the whole thing, all of new eden, its all one big Jovian experiment.
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Duh, considering that little to no changes have ever been made to the various symbols used for logos for corporations and factions since the game started, and the small workforce at CCP at the time, it is very likely if most if not all symbols were made by one guy and he was not all that creative in his designs considering the millions of other issues that had to get fixed for the game to launch.
I am quite certain that the way the story is unfolding and being shaped by t0nyG and Abraxes is very different to the vague plans thought out in the early design stages of EVE (the computer game). Heck, were Jovians not supposed to be a playable race at one point?
No. I do not think there is any intentional similarity between the logo for the Angel Cartel and the Jovian Directorate.
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That might be possible as the cartel salvaged some old jovian ruins and derelict stuff. They might have got inspired by their main logo. Otherwise, I do not see any good reason that could explain that.
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I see the diverse spread of this symbol as subtle evidence of Jovian meddling in each of these societies.
Brings up another question: what is the enemy of the bull? Did Marduk have some kind of antagonist-god?
Enheduanna was a priestess of Inanna, whose sign was an eight-pointed star.
edit: Aaaaaaaaaand how many points would this (http://media.photobucket.com/image/%22oruze+construct%22+/koronakesh/Wormholes/20090419165019.jpg) have, if the circle were complete?
Enki represents the first Jovian empire, his symbol the goat is seen in the Angel Cartel Logo. He held the Mes, obtained from Enlil who seems to represent the Yan Jung who fell during the time of the first empire.
Marduk succeeded Enki, inheriting his sphere and the Mes. His symbol can be seen in that of the Jovian Directorate.
Inanna stole the Mes from Enki, this can be seen in w-space where the Sleepers are harvesting the technologies of the Talocan. This is reinforced by the star motif, the tradition of which is continued by the SCT.
The Sleepers are a faction of the early second Jovian empire focused on obtaining the 'untainted' Jovian DNA from the first empire. Their link to Inanna clearly connects them to Enheduanna. There is some confusion here as the Enheduanni show attributes more akin to the goddess than her representative.
She stirs confusion and chaos against those who are disobedient to her, speeding carnage and inciting the devastating flood, clothed in terrifying radiance. It is her game to speed conflict and battle, untiring, strapping on her sandals.
Interestingly the Mes themselves were to be given to the cities as can be seen in Avetat and Ametat and possibly by the Achura later obtaining the "rod of creation" and it is likely other factions saw interferrence also. Connections blur again here with the first Jovian empire being the only known faction active at the time of the Sefrims arrival yet the empire also obtaining the symbol of Inanna as seen in the Khumaak. This supports the idea of the Enheduanni splitting from the Jove.
After the split the Minmatar became favourites of the Enheduanni, this can be clearly seen in Theodicy, particularly in the naming of the world "Eanna" after Inannas primary temple. This transfer of favor is further reinforced with the passing of the eight pointed star as a symbol of the Amarr to a symbol of the Matari. This didn't work out so well and the Jove aided the Minmatar in finding their own path once more.
The symbols of faith represent a prophesy for the Amarr, much like the prophesy that foretold the rise of a queen who would re-launch the reclaiming this was likely planted quite some time ago.
On a side-note Marduk was followed by Nabu who may tie in with Macapers "what was many now becomes one when one becomes four" and hint at the future rise of a fourth Jovian Empire.
I could go on but I'm in danger of veering off topic with every sentence.
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Honestly I don't understand the smallest bit of what people is always talking about when it comes to sleeper and apocrypha lore. Where can I find sources about that ? (not the basics on sleepers, talocans and all, i already know that)
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Jowen's guide to w-space is a great starting point but the "evidence" is scattered around many places from the chronicles to item descriptions.
[EDIT: I need to learn to read sorry, could you be more specific on what your looking for?]
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I don't know, I read Enki, Enlil, Marduk, and stuff, an as I can barely connect some of these terms to various stuff in EvE, I do not know what we are really refering to. And especially what happened. It sounds like a genesis but I don't know what happened in it.
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The primary links to mythology are in faction names and symbols. The Enheduanni mentioned in Theodicy link to Eheduanna which then prompts an examination of mesopotaimian religion. Enki's "portfolio" and symbols, which includes the 'double-helix snake' hint towards Jovian connections for example. Another connection is Tlalocan from Talocan linking to Aztec religion and Tlalocans assoiation with watery death with "wetgrave" and similarities to Enki's spheres of influence with a decided darker flavor.
Its all rather obnoxious though as religions are often interpreted in many ways by their practisoners, let alone when they are translated by later cultures (the summerians and bablylonias being a prime example here) and then coloured by historians and their focus on the many differing sources.
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Just on the "EVE Story being badly run because CCP is terrible" idea.
No half-way competent story writer even should attempt writing a story without a Clear start and finish - they flesh of it develops as the story progresses, albeit with careful nudges.
CCP gets a little firm with those nudges every now and then.
Story has a finite end point, that being said - because its an MMORPG - thats quite likely just the point for another EVE story to kick off.
Just my 0.5c worth, I am too busy learning how to be an Engineer to peruse all this wild theory making, as awesome fun as it is :P
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Symbology :lol: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_OezlTZ1A)
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Symbology :lol: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_OezlTZ1A)
I love you.