Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Lyn Farel on 22 Aug 2011, 06:14
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I stumbled upon this :
Emperor (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Emperor)
Privy Council (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Privy_Council)
Well, thats f** awesome.
And this also means that as I though, the Amarr governement is not owned by a single man. It has its own congress and assemblies, even if it is not a democracy.
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From my understanding, which is admittedly limited:
The Amarr view the Emperor/Empress as the physical manifestation of deity, essentially their word as if it were God's. However, there is a system of checks to ensure that such respect and honor isn't abused.
While the Emperor/Empress has the final say in most matters governmental, the heirs each hold ownership over a section of the Empire, like governors. For example, the Tash-Murkon region is ruled over by the Tash-Murkon heir family. Whatever the lord of the heir family decrees is law in that region unless overruled by the Emperor/Empress.
Each lord of the heir families sits on the Privy Council and the Privy Council, together with the Emperor/Empress rule over the entire Empire.
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From what I understand, theres supposed to be a massive civil service to compensate for a top-heavy leadership. While it does implement the Empress' policies, it's supposed to be inherently conservative.
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You mean like these guys? (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=11-04-07)
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They're both fantastic, really. Detailed government description omnomnom...wonder if they'll bless us with something for the other factions.
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While the Privy Council article is CCP stamped, the imperial bureaucracy structured in the Emperor page appears to be entirely constructed by Publius Valerius. While it probably has a foundation in corp stats (such as who's owning who), there is to my knowledge no official fiction indicating that the Chancellor appoints Ministers or that the Court Chamberlain names the heads of the Trade Registry or Civil Service.
It does make a fair amount of sense though.
From what I understand, theres supposed to be a massive civil service to compensate for a top-heavy leadership. While it does implement the Empress' policies, it's supposed to be inherently conservative.
Sounds a lot like the Emperor Family. (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Emperor_Family)
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Annoyed that Moritok, who died a year ago, is still running the Theology Council. :psyccp:
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Annoyed that Moritok, who died a year ago, is still running the Theology Council. :psyccp:
Eh, doens't seem like death is a real big setback for Amarrian leadership <.< >.>
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Annoyed that Moritok, who died a year ago, is still running the Theology Council. :psyccp:
Eh, doens't seem like death is a real big setback for Amarrian leadership <.< >.>
:bash:
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Hahaha.
It never fails to amuse me, the level of hypocrisy present in all four of the major empires in EVE.
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Annoyed that Moritok, who died a year ago, is still running the Theology Council. :psyccp:
Eh, doens't seem like death is a real big setback for Amarrian leadership <.< >.>
Quiet you!! :)
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Publius does somewhat good work (it seems he's toned down a lot his "Amarr = Romans" obsession or it has been edited out), but yes, unless an article has this image (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/skins/eveskin/_img/EvelopediaStamp-moderated.jpg) (example (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aritcio_Kor-Azor)), it should be considered as fan fiction. Of course, to a certain degree, fan fiction is also part of the universe, but its reliability needs to be considered before being taken as law.
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Publius does somewhat good work (it seems he's toned down a lot his "Amarr = Romans" obsession or it has been edited out), but yes, unless an article has this image (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/skins/eveskin/_img/EvelopediaStamp-moderated.jpg) (example (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aritcio_Kor-Azor)), it should be considered as fan fiction. Of course, to a certain degree, fan fiction is also part of the universe, but its reliability needs to be considered before being taken as law.
I believe you can read the information in the links on the original post ingame, under the Amarr Empire sub-factions.
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The picture of the Empire as a monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances and that absorbs, equalizes and assimilates everyone like the borg is the result of Minmatar propaganda, really.
<.<
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I believe you can read the information in the links on the original post ingame, under the Amarr Empire sub-factions.
I'd need a bit more time than I have now for a better response, but the Privy Council article is official. The Emperor article is good for the parts which cite sources, but the rest doesn't, in my opinion, simply make any sense at all. Personally, I would divide the "central government" of the Amarr Empire into several parts.
(1) The Emperor in person/Court Chamberlain - she has power because she is the Empress etc. etc. (the Court Chamberlain is powerful because he is an extension of the Emperor)
(2) The Imperial Household/Emperor Family - governing the lands directly held by the Emperor (the Chamberlain may have a role here, as well, but I'd expect that for the Empire in general, the main function is that people here have ready access to the Empress and can affect her opinions). May also include imperial troops (household forces), even if the bulk of soldiers are actually provided by other Holders.
(3) The Imperial bureaucracy/Chancellor, ministries and services - keeping the imperial machine running. A whole lot of it runs even without an Emperor, but loyal parts can be used to channel quite a deal of power. Unlike the Chamberlain, whose power comes directly from the Emperor, the Chancellor's power comes from being in charge of running things. Militarily, this means both resource-allocating in the Ministry of War and policing via Ministry of Internal Order.
(4) The Emperor as the First Apostle/High Priest - possibly the most pervasive part of the Imperial apparatus, completely ignored in the article. As we know of the Cult of Tetrimon, the Theology Council was at first the Emperor's clergy. If the Big T is controlled by forces loyal to the Empress, then no matter if a fief is held by a Holder of questionable loyalty, the Emperor is there via her priests.
(5) The Imperial military. The Amarr Navy is an Imperial Navy, directly loyal to the Empress. Of course, different factions have their men and women in the Navy, too, so complete loyalty isn't guaranteed (especially if the Emperor lets her guard down). The Sarum are strong here, and the Amarr Navy article directly suggests that many people fear that the Empress will emphasize the role of the Navy (which may be the most loyal part of the Imperial machine at the moment).
(6) The feudal system of imperial Holders, the Heirs and their Holders. Which might, at least on paper, own the most of the things in the Empire, even if said things are practically controlled jointly by the Holders' staff and the imperial bureaucracy which, in turn, is itself influenced by several feudal factions - and the further you get from the Emperor, the more powerful the feudal component becomes, so Amarr might be 99% run by the Imperial bureaucracy, whereas in the middle of nowhere the show is run by the Holders, unless there are direct imperial/Emperor Family holdings.
The 24th Imperial Crusade, as it is ingame, is completely a CONCORD artifact and is a part of the Empire only symbolically. (Actual 24th would likely - in the case of an all-out war - have huge effect on the society that cannot be coined into a corp.)
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I stumbled upon this :
Emperor (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Emperor)
Privy Council (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Privy_Council)
Well, thats f** awesome.
And this also means that as I though, the Amarr governement is not owned by a single man. It has its own congress and assemblies, even if it is not a democracy.
Thanks for the kind words.... but democracy ... ehm NO^^
Publius does somewhat good work (it seems he's toned down a lot his "Amarr = Romans" obsession or it has been edited out), but yes, unless an article has this image (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/skins/eveskin/_img/EvelopediaStamp-moderated.jpg) (example (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aritcio_Kor-Azor)), it should be considered as fan fiction. Of course, to a certain degree, fan fiction is also part of the universe, but its reliability needs to be considered before being taken as law.
Of course you right... but you can add ISD or Mercur too... etc.. but I think you know that... about roman?.... I had never the feeling that I had a to roman touch:P... I mean in this page.... I have even the Privy pic from deutschen Bundestag http://www.people1.de/img/bundestag.jpg
The picture of the Empire as a monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances and that absorbs, equalizes and assimilates everyone like the borg is the result of Minmatar propaganda, really.
<.<
Oh my God... where should I start... it is just the emperor/empress body... I havent add the regions/provinces... because it is NOT a chart for whole Empire.... like the Privy Council page... dont get me wrong everybody can have his opinion... but next time... read the article... and the links etc.... and than come up with something good... or I will hunt you down with Popper :P
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I believe you can read the information in the links on the original post ingame, under the Amarr Empire sub-factions.
I'd need a bit more time than I have now for a better response, but the Privy Council article is official. The Emperor article is good for the parts which cite sources, but the rest doesn't, in my opinion, simply make any sense at all. Personally, I would divide the "central government" of the Amarr Empire into several parts.
(1) The Emperor in person/Court Chamberlain - she has power because she is the Empress etc. etc. (the Court Chamberlain is powerful because he is an extension of the Emperor)
(2) The Imperial Household/Emperor Family - governing the lands directly held by the Emperor (the Chamberlain may have a role here, as well, but I'd expect that for the Empire in general, the main function is that people here have ready access to the Empress and can affect her opinions). May also include imperial troops (household forces), even if the bulk of soldiers are actually provided by other Holders.
(3) The Imperial bureaucracy/Chancellor, ministries and services - keeping the imperial machine running. A whole lot of it runs even without an Emperor, but loyal parts can be used to channel quite a deal of power. Unlike the Chamberlain, whose power comes directly from the Emperor, the Chancellor's power comes from being in charge of running things. Militarily, this means both resource-allocating in the Ministry of War and policing via Ministry of Internal Order.
(4) The Emperor as the First Apostle/High Priest - possibly the most pervasive part of the Imperial apparatus, completely ignored in the article. As we know of the Cult of Tetrimon, the Theology Council was at first the Emperor's clergy. If the Big T is controlled by forces loyal to the Empress, then no matter if a fief is held by a Holder of questionable loyalty, the Emperor is there via her priests.
(5) The Imperial military. The Amarr Navy is an Imperial Navy, directly loyal to the Empress. Of course, different factions have their men and women in the Navy, too, so complete loyalty isn't guaranteed (especially if the Emperor lets her guard down). The Sarum are strong here, and the Amarr Navy article directly suggests that many people fear that the Empress will emphasize the role of the Navy (which may be the most loyal part of the Imperial machine at the moment).
(6) The feudal system of imperial Holders, the Heirs and their Holders. Which might, at least on paper, own the most of the things in the Empire, even if said things are practically controlled jointly by the Holders' staff and the imperial bureaucracy which, in turn, is itself influenced by several feudal factions - and the further you get from the Emperor, the more powerful the feudal component becomes, so Amarr might be 99% run by the Imperial bureaucracy, whereas in the middle of nowhere the show is run by the Holders, unless there are direct imperial/Emperor Family holdings.
The 24th Imperial Crusade, as it is ingame, is completely a CONCORD artifact and is a part of the Empire only symbolically. (Actual 24th would likely - in the case of an all-out war - have huge effect on the society that cannot be coined into a corp.)
I had often as well mixed fellings... but the old shareholder numbers was the reason.. why I choose this line up... (see for example shareholder of 24th IC http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=24th_Imperial_Crusade_%28NPC_corporation%29&oldid=32165 )...
About 6.. Have I write something... what let you think this is the case.... dont see the chart as something what shows the whole think...
About 5: There isnt any thing mention... not in the Book or in the News... what let me think that the Amarr Navy is broken in Holderfactions... they have their own police forces and navys... so I think you pull this point just out of thin air. :|
About 4: Arrg. I cant say it often enough... read before posting... "also as supreme heads of the church;" plus link to http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Cult_of_Tetrimon_%28Chronicle%29 "The Emperor was elevated to the status of the Empire’s spiritual and worldly leader." I cannt belive I have to write this down... :cry: next Time... read plz and dont look just at the chart...
About 3: Yes, Yes, Yes... and again.. I havent write the Emperor runs the show... just how.. the it gets run and even that in a just small window what has the Emperor as focus, do you understand this?.. page name isnt "Amarr Structur" it is "Emperor" .. the PC is for example just in the chart because the Emperor/Emprees had a seat in it.
About 2: Imperial Land.. or the empers domain... there is no hard evidence that the Emperor Family has is own domain.. I had something like this also in mind... that for example... Sosan a Emperor Domain is... but this isnt the case... not in the EA novel or some place else. Most likly in reality there would be something like a "königliche domäne"
About 1: Yes... and no... then like CCP has wrote in the new Corp Dis of the CC... Jamyl had striped a lot away... so.. I have him on the same level like the Chanceller.
Never forget criticize and bitching is always easy... so If you really want do something... log in on evelopedia.. and work the on the page and/or on the others http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Category:Stubs ...
But I hope that like you said... you come up with some good stuff.. like your post said "a better response"...
... "parts which cite sources, but the rest doesn't, in my opinion, simply make any sense at all." I hope you can pull a example out of your a$$ :P, but I mean one based on a logical and deductive analysis or I will hunt you with Popper too....
Fly save
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Hi and welcome on these boards!
Now, once again, I don't have a huge amount of time available at the moment, so I'll begin with excusing a bit - I do have a bit of a habit to ramble on about things and miss the exact topic, but little time to do much for the things I've rambled about.
For the position of the Imperial court, I'd need to back my statements up. The same for Emperor Family. However, there has been quite a bit of discussion on the differences of the Chamberlain and the Chancellor, so once I have time (in a few weeks), I might be able to back my argument better.
As for Imperial holdings: "Once a new emperor has been chosen, all ties to his old royal family are severed and he joins the holy family of the emperors, which owns vast estates throughout the empire and wields considerable political power." Now, from your posts I understand that English is not your native language (well, not mine, either). Basic grammar: The family of the emperors, which owns vast estates. Therefore, it is directly mentioned ingame that the Emperor Family (headed by the Emperor) has its own "fief"/"domain"/"lands"/"estates", or whatever other synonyms we can cook up.
As for "structure", I might be able to suggest a better word for that, have to give it some thought. Clearly those other institutions are not Emperor, while they are appointed by the Emperor. If I remember my original intent on the post, it was simply to give some thought on the possible channels of power in the Empire. Similarly, the mention of the church was included for completeness, I was not claiming that you was missing something.
I hate ad hominem attacks, but assuming you did read before posting, I have rather clearly mentioned "personally, I would divide the 'central government' of the Amarr Empire into several parts" before the little wall-of-text there. In other words, the following text was a short version of how I personally think the Empire might work. Not a "Publius is wrong and this is the absolute truth, because I say so" thing. I think you pointed out that we actually agreed on several details.
As of the factionalism in the Navy, there was a little event on the Bleak Lands where it was mentioned that the 7th Fleet of the Imperial Navy ("Saracens") might be more loyal to the Tash-Murkon than the Empire as a whole, mentioned in at least here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1677&tid=4). So, yes, in name the Imperial Navy belongs to the Emperor (or the Empire). In practice, this may not be the fact. Nothing more claimed in my previous post, I believe.
And I hate to dig old things, but the "Roman" mention was on your few articles giving full tria nomina style names to at least some Khanid NPCs. And yes, I am aware that these have since been edited (most likely by you, haven't checked) and I am just as aware that AURORA has used Latin ingame as a substitute for some kind of Church Amarrish. (Can't remember Mercury doing that, though.) All good in fan fiction, which includes everything in Evelopedia without the official seal of approval in my eyes - though I guess Evelopedia is being opened more, so the line between "fan-made" and "official" fiction is becoming a bit more fuzzy.
Finally, I do appreciate your work, and I am not out to get you or something, so please calm down. I might have some more free time after Christmas, so I might be able to contribute some suggestions on how to further improve that article on the talk page. Or even edit them in myself, but I do not believe in the usefulness of edit wars, so better go via talk.
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And I hate to dig old things, but the "Roman" mention was on your few articles giving full tria nomina style names
Oh my God... One, one article, one.... just the Khanid Family ones... ehm... and this have I done, like I said here, because of other reasons than the love to romans:P
First of all... Nice work realy good...
Now I have the feeling I have to expalin my self :P
So Why I choose.. the three name... that first...
I have write the article in the old days, where you can have just two names... so I choose first three names, because I was annoy about the user... like Khand ||, Khanid ii, Khanid II or Khanid ıı. You could always count that all 6 months someone of those peolpe show up... with something like "Im your King" etc...
The second reason was... that I thought that if the family had just two names Khanid Khanid would be sound weird... and it very possible that the family would use another name to like... Louis XIV of France and his ancestors and his successor... because almost every boy in the family had the name Louis.. would the mother screem after one, she had to use a nickname like Xavier... etc.. the rest have I pull out of thin air. :P
Ehm I can add Khanid ll too.. see here here (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=802034)
So I hope, I have now falsified the idea of "Publius" and his Roman touch... And plz I havent to explain the name, I mean my Char-Name too... or I wil come with Alexander Hamilton :P....
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As of the factionalism in the Navy, there was a little event on the Bleak Lands where it was mentioned that the 7th Fleet of the Imperial Navy ("Saracens") might be more loyal to the Tash-Murkon than the Empire as a whole, mentioned in at least here (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1677&tid=4). So, yes, in name the Imperial Navy belongs to the Emperor (or the Empire). In practice, this may not be the fact. Nothing more claimed in my previous post, I believe.
Yeep... but I quote "Given Admiral Saracen's ties to the Tash-Murkon family, it is natural that such suspicions might arise."
Ehm... I belive there are individuals in the Navy, which have ties in the Familys or even members of one of them see Khanid II (he was commander-in-chief of the Amarr Navy). but... like you said "so complete loyalty isn't guaranteed".. but ... and now a HUGE BUT:P it isnt a "hard institutions" (like: douglass north) factionalismus. It is more like "just" institutions without the "hard" ones, so you stand just with the so call "soft" Institutions: values and norms etc.... (P.S. I know the actuall term Institions in all of Norths works, means both). So when we have "just" "soft": I had to assume I cannt them visialise it in a chart... (ehm it is hardly possible.)
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As for Imperial holdings: "Once a new emperor has been chosen, all ties to his old royal family are severed and he joins the holy family of the emperors, which owns vast estates throughout the empire and wields considerable political power." Now, from your posts I understand that English is not your native language (well, not mine, either). Basic grammar: The family of the emperors, which owns vast estates. Therefore, it is directly mentioned ingame that the Emperor Family (headed by the Emperor) has its own "fief"/"domain"/"lands"/"estates", or whatever other synonyms we can cook up.
I know... ehm how I explain this point.... I think I go with the meaning in english and other languages like you....
In English:
Domain= private property of the monarch/ruler/king /Family etc + rule in form of government. That makes it more then just private property.
In German:
Domain is Staatesdomäne (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatsdom%C3%A4ne), or like I mention "köngliche domäne". Now... Staatsdomäne are something out of the Holy Roman Empire.. so sadly there are no actuall translation of this term into english. But let me try... It is like the english one plus one point more so:
Domain= private property of the monarch/ruler/king /Family etc + rule in form of government was the english version in shortcut. Now add to It the direct rule in to it... ehm better I add a example... so like the prussian Kings have for example the bring the emancipation of the serfs/Leibeigenen step by step down until the "Preußische Agrarverfassung"... but first step was in their domain... like Fredrick the great 1777... so he could for example forbid serfdom in his domain without breaking any law (I mean even his own laws).. because he can this domain rule directly, like a Leviathan, but serfdom can be still legal or be even a law in the rest of his territory. And most of us (germans) have from school time the last one in mind... so I dont want any confusion or some miss post in IGS... So I would say we let this point out until it is final from CCP.
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I hate ad hominem attacks, but assuming you did read before posting, I have rather clearly mentioned "personally, I would divide the 'central government' of the Amarr Empire into several parts" before the little wall-of-text there. In other words, the following text was a short version of how I personally think the Empire might work. Not a "Publius is wrong and this is the absolute truth, because I say so" thing. I think you pointed out that we actually agreed on several details.
And again I said... dont see It as a page about 'central government', if you want make one.. I would love it and of course I would help.... and like I write later.... I was maybe a little to harrsh in my words... but still... I have the felling that we talk "to talk past each other" ehm... My plan was jsut to show the Emperor/Empress and her "trickle down" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics) power... see it like as what can the emperor/empress do... and what her "trickle down sphere of influence", thats why the other coprs in the chart and ... some are not...
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Finally, I do appreciate your work, and I am not out to get you or something, so please calm down. I might have some more free time after Christmas, so I might be able to contribute some suggestions on how to further improve that article on the talk page. Or even edit them in myself, but I do not believe in the usefulness of edit wars, so better go via talk.
Sorry I wasnt angry... I was maybe a little to harsh in my language, but I doesnt meant it as an insult, so sorry about that. And I hope to hear and see some work in the evelopedia... it needs always help.
-Fly save
P.S. Maybe some come from this :P
(4) The Emperor as the First Apostle/High Priest - possibly the most pervasive part of the Imperial apparatus, completely ignored in the article.
Thats why I had to write "read first".
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Staatesdomäne/königliche domäne would be equivalent to the British concept of Crown Land.
From a semantical standpoint I just want to point out though that if Staatesdomäne is a thing, there must also exist a concept of non-state domäne. In fact, a quick Wiki check tells me that the German Wikipedia has a disambiguation page under "domäne", listing the following:
Gutshof (Estate)
Rittergut (Manor)
Kammergut (Land belonging directly to the monarch, practically synonymous with Staatesdomäne)
Staatesdomäne (Land belonging to the crown and state)
The English term "domain" encompasses all these, and also trickles even further down to be a viable synonym for practically any sphere of ownership, no matter how small.
(Language geekery: I just realized that 'gut' is 'gods' in Swedish, which means Estate. Sometimes details just click together)
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Staatesdomäne/königliche domäne would be equivalent to the British concept of Crown Land.
From a semantical standpoint I just want to point out though that if Staatesdomäne is a thing, there must also exist a concept of non-state domäne. In fact, a quick Wiki check tells me that the German Wikipedia has a disambiguation page under "domäne", listing the following:
Gutshof (Estate)
Rittergut (Manor)
Kammergut (Land belonging directly to the monarch, practically synonymous with Staatesdomäne)
Staatesdomäne (Land belonging to the crown and state)
The English term "domain" encompasses all these, and also trickles even further down to be a viable synonym for practically any sphere of ownership, no matter how small.
(Language geekery: I just realized that 'gut' is 'gods' in Swedish, which means Estate. Sometimes details just click together)
I actually dont know if crown land fits 100%, because I think they stood also under the rule of law... ehm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land what I can see...
I havent find a better link sadly.... just about the soldatenkönig... the father of fredrick... friedrich wilhelm I and his 1718 work:
http://books.google.de/books?id=y5teFA0eNPoC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=frederick+wilhelm+prussia+1718+serfdom+domain&source=bl&ots=z_eXXhAraH&sig=XGxXaKY7V4oLB5vZ36jfiwPlPTA&hl=de&sa=X&ei=wvzpTsfTApDBswbp9PmJBw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=frederick%20wilhelm%20prussia%201718%20serfdom%20domain&f=false
And some early stuff:
http://books.google.de/books?id=8BfFZDxXLfcC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=frederick+wilhelm+prussia+1718+serfdom+domain&source=bl&ots=vFY_Uo8MPO&sig=ugeTe8knCUShq79EC33j9BRn4v4&hl=de&sa=X&ei=wvzpTsfTApDBswbp9PmJBw&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=frederick%20wilhelm%20prussia%201718%20serfdom%20domain&f=false
Maybe I take a pic from my old school book text... with a translation if it needed.
The point it is his... that they could do this first in this domain... where you dont have the all the contracts of the Holy Roman Empire... of the old citys.. of the guilds and the junkers... etc...
They just it like a test ground.
Maybe later I come up with some better links and explaination. :cry:
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Ah, right. I think I get it. The monarch could be holding territory which was technically outside the purview of the overall Imperial laws and was thus able to test reforms before campaigning for them throughout the Empire.
The Amarr Empire isn't a union of states like the HRE though, so I rather doubt it'd be possible for an Emperor to pull something like that.
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Actually, testing different laws might be well possible. Not reversing everything, but changing things that are up to interpretation, yes. Aritcio, at least, I understand, did implement considerable reforms after a long period of neglecting his role as a feudal ruler. Of course the catch is that the Holder/Heir/Emperor to do so must have his trusted vassals to supervise the project or then s/he must be present himself.
Also further apologies to Publius - I apologize, no memory what I meant when writing the part about Emperor-High Priest link missing or if I just had read badly the article in spring.
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Actually, testing different laws might be well possible. Not reversing everything, but changing things that are up to interpretation, yes. Aritcio, at least, I understand, did implement considerable reforms after a long period of neglecting his role as a feudal ruler. Of course the catch is that the Holder/Heir/Emperor to do so must have his trusted vassals to supervise the project or then s/he must be present himself.
Also further apologies to Publius - I apologize, no memory what I meant when writing the part about Emperor-High Priest link missing or if I just had read badly the article in spring.
No problem... I was to harsh and I had choose the wrong language. So really my apology for that.
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About the list... it is really nice
Gutshof: (Estate)
private property+private regin (like own company)
Rittergut: (Manor)
private property+rule in form of government, I mean with it that their goverment administrated it. Many or even most of them were independent or semi-independent. I have to find some good maps... but their really small.
Kammergut: (Land belonging directly to the monarch, practically synonymous with Staatesdomäne) Actually the last point was long debate in the Domänenfrage (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom%C3%A4nenfrage) the courts rule mostly that they are Staatsdomäne, so not to see as something like a privat company and more like stateproperty.... because most of them were administrated from the goverment apperatus of the Lord or Duke. But I would go with the old version:
private property+private regin (like own company), but like I said 99% of Time the were administrated from the goverment servent, which were already in place (I think personaly maybe to avoid a doppel admistration).
Staatesdomäne (Land belonging to the crown and state) I would go with rule in form of government, I mean with it that the goverment administrated it + plus my other point.
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But another thing ... I was thinging maybe the the Amarr has a doppel admistration.. something like:
(1) From the top coming something like Imperial Circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Circle) and from the bottom comeing the Prince-elector and local monarchs .
(2) From the top coming Reichsgau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsgau) and also the old Länder. So have two because administrative division of Weimar Germany was left in place during the third reich. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_Nazi_Germany#Gaue.2C_Reichsgaue_and_L.C3.A4nder)
I was thinging that the Emarr Empire has something like this to... so the Emperess has the governors... wich are something like the Imperial Circle in the HRE... but you also has the Familys (the Prince-electors) their own admistration for their region... with their own apperatus.
So form the bottom comes one administrative division: The local holder -> over the royal familys -> to the pricy council...
From the top: Empress -> governor -> district officials beneath them [1] (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Ammatars_%28Chronicle%29).
Of course it is just an idea which I had in mind, thats why I havent write anything down yet... I though maybe it would be a nice discusion starter for this topic :lol:
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The Empire has multiple strata of administration. There's...
1. Emperor as Head of State -> Privy Council -> Royal Houses -> Landed Holders
2. Emperor as Head of State -> Imperial Chancellor -> "The Bureaucracy" (The Ministries, The Civic Courts, Trade Registry, etc)
3. Emperor as Head of Church -> Theology Council -> The Church and Clergy
4. Emperor as Head of the Emperor Family -> Emperor Family Holders
And probably a couple of others. The thing is that each of these branches of administration of the Empire will likely be holding their own land in some way or another. If nothing else, each branch definitely has its own space stations.
Land held in Category 1 never belongs directly to the Emperor. All of that land is granted to the Royal Houses, and whenever an Emperor is appointed he must immediately leave his House. That rule is probably to limit the personal Kammergut of the Heir-come-Emperor - or you'd have a monarch who's also directly running a large part of the Empire (like Prussia in the late HRE).
Land held in Category 2 would belong to the Imperial State as an entity (embodied by the Emperor, but existing under the Chancellor), possibly as part of Category 4. This would be Staatesdomäne.
Land held in Category 3 would be land granted to the church. Temples, monasteries, etc. This land probably comes both from Category 1 and 4.
Land held in Category 4 would belong directly to the Emperor. The actual size of the Emperor Family holdings is difficult to estimate, but I'd guess it's generally newly-discovered or conquered lands which default to the Emperor Family (The Crown) and may later be granted to the Houses, Church and Administration. I can imagine that the Emperor Family holds some very sparsely scattered lands around the Empire, plus most of the Domain region. I think this would be best described as Kammergut, but at least in the core of the Empire much of it would be dedicated to the Bureaucracy and Church. What's not divided up would belong to landed holders of the Emperor Family - which has been described as a very conservative group (due to it entirely consisting of allies and descendants of former Emperors).
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The picture of the Empire as a monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances and that absorbs, equalizes and assimilates everyone like the borg is the result of Minmatar propaganda, really.
<.<
Oh my God... where should I start... it is just the emperor/empress body... I havent add the regions/provinces... because it is NOT a chart for whole Empire.... like the Privy Council page... dont get me wrong everybody can have his opinion... but next time... read the article... and the links etc.... and than come up with something good... or I will hunt you down with Popper :P
Well, maybe you could consider that my comment makes more sense if it's read as supporting your work? Not everyone is out against you, really. Relax.
Though it was really mainly meant in regard to the article about the Privy Council and how it shows that the Empire isn't simply an evil dictatorship.
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The picture of the Empire as a monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances and that absorbs, equalizes and assimilates everyone like the borg is the result of Minmatar propaganda, really.
<.<
Oh my God... where should I start... it is just the emperor/empress body... I havent add the regions/provinces... because it is NOT a chart for whole Empire.... like the Privy Council page... dont get me wrong everybody can have his opinion... but next time... read the article... and the links etc.... and than come up with something good... or I will hunt you down with Popper :P
Well, maybe you could consider that my comment makes more sense if it's read as supporting your work? Not everyone is out against you, really. Relax.
Though it was really mainly meant in regard to the article about the Privy Council and how it shows that the Empire isn't simply an evil dictatorship.
Oh my God.... Here in this case I dont see any harsh word from me.... So I dont see were this "relex, relex" attitude comes from.... Maybe If you read the whole topic It maybe helps... and Im not angry...
-I may have to expalin myself... If I say something like: "see it as this or that" or "read the whole thing" isnt it meant angry... it is even positiv... because the other option would be far worse:P , because I have to assume some nasty things :P ... just joking :P the german humor.... like my old prof had said "Stupidity is just cute in america" :lol: (It is just a joke no insult, It is less about the people than more about Homer Simpson and to show different people have a different style to communicate suff :P)
So back to the topic... I´m not hunting you in your first post... but give you the option... be more precisely... If you wirte something like "X is missing, because X most be a part of the Emperor page, because of Y etc." I will of course rework my stuff...
If I read something like "monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances" and I have reshape the text about the the checks-and-balances (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Khanid_Kingdom_%28Chronicle%29) to "but the archaic and bureaucratic system of government makes it difficult for him to exert his rule unless directly in person" because of this: see (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr#Overview), than I start to ask myself. So dont see it as an insult, see it more as a firendly call to be more precise. So that it helps me... thats why I have wirte Popper down... to help you to help me, that the page gets better.
________________________
P.S.
On a another point, maybe I have to quote myself: "And again I said... dont see It as a page about 'central government', if you want make one.. I would love it and of course I would help.... and like I write later.... I was maybe a little to harrsh in my words... but still... I have the felling that we talk "to talk past each other" ehm... My plan was jsut to show the Emperor/Empress and her "trickle down" power... see it like as what can the emperor/empress do... and what her "trickle down sphere of influence", thats why the other coprs in the chart and ... some are not..." I have to bring this quote because I have the feeling you had to see this page as something what describe the "whole thing", you wouldnt make your Leviathan comment on the Privy Council page, because you are smart enough to see that this one page about one institution dont show the "whole thing". The same counts for my page.
So Nicole
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Oh my God.... Here in this case I dont see any harsh word from me.... So I dont see were this "relex, relex" attitude comes from.... Maybe If you read the whole topic It maybe helps... and Im not angry...
It may be that you have started your last few posts with the words "oh my god". There are quite a few ways people could take that ;)
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The Empire has multiple strata of administration. There's...
1. Emperor as Head of State -> Privy Council -> Royal Houses -> Landed Holders
2. Emperor as Head of State -> Imperial Chancellor -> "The Bureaucracy" (The Ministries, The Civic Courts, Trade Registry, etc)
3. Emperor as Head of Church -> Theology Council -> The Church and Clergy
4. Emperor as Head of the Emperor Family -> Emperor Family Holders
Great list...
I havent really work out one :cry:
About the "Emperor as Head of Church", I would go so:
Emperor as Head of Church -[1]-> "Great Amarr holy family" 2 (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3377&tid=2) -[3] --┬--> Local Gruops/Congregation
└--> Ammatar Church [5]
┌--------------------------------Controls┴--------------------------------┴
Theology Council (I see it more outside of the normal framework, what controls the others)
Quote:"The new Emperor, still insecure in his newly elevated position, gathered those religious leaders supportive of him into a special assembly to create a new canon of scriptures that would increase the moral authority of the Emperor. This assembly became permanent and was named the Theology Council -- defenders of the new religious and political order. Their Inquisitors were much feared throughout the Empire. Under their ruling fist many aspects of the Amarr faith were purged and modified to fit the new political order of the Empire - with the Emperor as the supreme and infallible voice of God." [4] (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Cult_of_Tetrimon_%28Chronicle%29)
*[1] Is head of Church
*[3] Cults and different gruops etc... orthodox etc...
*[5] Maybe the Governor would have power too.
But I have admit that I havent through it out.... about the Category 4 and Kammergut I would agree I see it almost the same way...
About Category 1: Change "personal Kammergut" to "Gutshof (Estate)" and change Prussia to Habsburger (Austria a.k.a. House of Austria) and we have 100% the same opinion. Just a small but I would see it in smaller numbers... like private estate, private palace, private slaves etc.... so more closer to the person, but just my person opinion, I havent any link to this, so the 100 stands :lol:.
About Category 2: I see it also the same way... to most would be inbody in to 4, but most likly their would be some cases in their isnt any clarity. I would say Staatesdomäne too.
About Category 3: I think you meant a mix between Gutshof Estate and Staatesdomäne. I see it the same way.
About Category 4: I hope I have understand the point.... I would say Kammergut too... but some would be dedicated or "just" administrated from one of the many "hard" Institutions (Bureaucracy and Churches).
I hope I have this right? But I have to admit I havent thought it out, I´m currently on reworking of some NPC pages at LP Stores etc... ehm.. I was thinking maybe in my holidays to rework the Amarr Heir page http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_Heirs
... and add some infos about it... plus a chart with the Heirs on focus.... you know with lines to the familys .... with a line to the Amarr succession ritual etc...
Oh my God.... Here in this case I dont see any harsh word from me.... So I dont see were this "relex, relex" attitude comes from.... Maybe If you read the whole topic It maybe helps... and Im not angry...
It may be that you have started your last few posts with the words "oh my god". There are quite a few ways people could take that ;)
:lol: You totally right... damn... why have I never learned for my vocabulary test. :lol: But seriously my apology for any insult.
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The Empire has multiple strata of administration. There's...
1. Emperor as Head of State -> Privy Council -> Royal Houses -> Landed Holders
2. Emperor as Head of State -> Imperial Chancellor -> "The Bureaucracy" (The Ministries, The Civic Courts, Trade Registry, etc)
3. Emperor as Head of Church -> Theology Council -> The Church and Clergy
4. Emperor as Head of the Emperor Family -> Emperor Family Holders
Great list...
I havent really work out one :cry:
About the "Emperor as Head of Church", I would go so:
Emperor as Head of Church -[1]-> "Great Amarr holy family" 2 (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3377&tid=2) -[3] --┬--> Local Gruops/Congregation
└--> Ammatar Church [5]
┌--------------------------------Controls┴--------------------------------┴
Theology Council (I see it more outside of the normal framework, what controls the others)
Quote:"The new Emperor, still insecure in his newly elevated position, gathered those religious leaders supportive of him into a special assembly to create a new canon of scriptures that would increase the moral authority of the Emperor. This assembly became permanent and was named the Theology Council -- defenders of the new religious and political order. Their Inquisitors were much feared throughout the Empire. Under their ruling fist many aspects of the Amarr faith were purged and modified to fit the new political order of the Empire - with the Emperor as the supreme and infallible voice of God." [4] (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Cult_of_Tetrimon_%28Chronicle%29)
*[1] Is head of Church
*[3] Cults and different gruops etc... orthodox etc...
*[5] Maybe the Governor would have power too.
I really don't think that many Emperors really bother with the mass of varied cults throughout the Empire. He may technically be the leader of all those groups, but just as the Chancellor leads the Imperial Government in the Emperor's stead, the Theology Council governs all the faiths.
Thus it would be: Emperor -> TC -> Clergy (including cults, sects, and sub-churches)
If a congregation doesn't obey the edicts of the Theology Council, they are not orthodox and - at worst - heretical. A group may claim to be of a version of the Amarr faith and obey the Emperor directly, but the Theology Council can still declare them heretical and persecute them. I doubt a congregation would ever say they swear fealty to the Emperor's Theology Council, but as part of the de facto structure of the Amarr church each sect is subservient to the Theology Council.
About Category 1: Change "personal Kammergut" to "Gutshof (Estate)" and change Prussia to Habsburger (Austria a.k.a. House of Austria) and we have 100% the same opinion. Just a small but I would see it in smaller numbers... like private estate, private palace, private slaves etc.... so more closer to the person, but just my person opinion, I havent any link to this, so the 100 stands :lol:.
My point was that without the Emperor Family rules, an Heir could go from - for example - owning all of the Kador Region to owning all of the Kador Region, Domain, Genesis, and all other "crown land."
But yes, I agree with you... maybe we ought to let go of these German terms before we make things even more complicated.
About Category 4: I hope I have understand the point.... I would say Kammergut too... but some would be dedicated or "just" administrated from one of the many "hard" Institutions (Bureaucracy and Churches).
Yeah, there would be land granted to or rented by the government and clergy.
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About Category 1: Change "personal Kammergut" to "Gutshof (Estate)" and change Prussia to Habsburger (Austria a.k.a. House of Austria) and we have 100% the same opinion. Just a small but I would see it in smaller numbers... like private estate, private palace, private slaves etc.... so more closer to the person, but just my person opinion, I havent any link to this, so the 100 stands :lol:.
My point was that without the Emperor Family rules, an Heir could go from - for example - owning all of the Kador Region to owning all of the Kador Region, Domain, Genesis, and all other "crown land."
But yes, I agree with you... maybe we ought to let go of these German terms before we make things even more complicated.
Ah okay.... so let me explain what I have though first^^...
Quote:"Die Burg Hohenzollern ist nach wie vor Privateigentum. Sie gehört zu zwei Dritteln der brandenburgisch-preußischen Linie des Hauses Hohenzollern, zu einem Drittel der schwäbisch-katholischen Linie."[1] (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burg_Hohenzollern)
In english:"Hohenzollern castle is still privately owned. Two thirds of the castle belongs to the Brandenburg-Prussian line of the Hohenzollern, while one third is owned by the Swabian line of the family."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohenzollern_Castle#Function)
I was think about something like this one the first Category;Gutsbesitz/Gutshof
Now I get your point... you meant that the Habsburg family (Hohenzollern wasnt HRE Emperors, thats why I have made the first change, stupid me :P, but I think now I get it), be more precisely that a Habsburger HRE Emperor could rule of the Empire and over his "old" family territory. Ehm yes, but this doesnt change any property-rights (thats with a point why I use them in earlyier post, as one of the define elements). So now to come back, I know Im the horrror, see the the duality between ruling the HRE and the Family territory as an split, which is more like a peronal union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_union). So mostly in the HRE the emperos "domain" - any kind of this points of the old list - would be stay as it is and just bequeath from emperor to emperor (like in the Amarr Empire). The other part the Family territory also form the head of the family to the head of the family. And their wasnt any transfer between the both, because like I said the HRE was a contract moster, so if one emperor would do this all other royal houses would be go to court.
About the old post and prussia and Staatsdomäne.. ehm maybe I have left a point out what had led to the confusion.... the Hohenzollern/Prussian Family werent emperors to any time of the HRE... what I meant with HRE Contracts is something like in the old Württemberg, in the 16th century, which had try to get rid of the Ständeversammlung (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrttembergische_Landst%C3%A4nde#Unter_Herzog_Ulrich_und_den_Habsburgern) (sadly their isnt any good english version). But this meant that one of the hundred contracts was broken, so the Stände are going the the HRE Court, and the Court/Reichskammergericht said: "they, the Stände, are right"... that leds to the invasion of the Emperor the Habsburger, with a casus belli to restore to old order.
I know Im the horror. :lol: As for Prussia it could destroy the old Ständeversammlung in his territory which were outside of the HRE, like ostpreußen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostpreu%C3%9Fen). What it actually did (Dauerlandtag 1661-63 (http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/K%C3%B6nigsberg_in_Preu%C3%9Fen)). Now I come to my point and what a Staatsdomäne, könglische Domäne ist.^^
So prussia for example as also territory inside in the HRE, but they arent under the domain (I know domain the 100:P I mean something like "not under the rule of contracts of the HRE" in english domain show up the translater, as I typing domain (http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=&search=domain) "Wirkungsraum" show up:(, any way), I know this words domain is the horror, so ) of the HRE like Oder-bruch and small one which led later to something like this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12462196) etc...
So now... ehm maybe the english term Crownland and how it was used in the britsh monarchie (not the austrian Cisleithania which is a differnet thing) would be most likly describe what you meant, so you 100% right if in reality or in the Amarr Empire would the both territorys fall together... I would say the term crown land would be the right one.
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I think your "personal union" take on it is a more accurate descriptor. Doesn't change the fact it's still probably perceived as a problem to have an Emperor who simultaneously rules the Empire and one of the Houses - hence the rules forcing the Emperor to abandon his family once crowned.
The equivalent - with reservations for possibly making even more stupid parallels - would be if a Habsburger elected Emperor had to abdicate from the throne of Austria-Hungary and move his household to a dedicated Imperial territory in order to govern the Empire, simply as a historical measure to curb the personal power of the Emperor. But then again, the Amarr Emperor is also the equivalent of a pope, and in that sense a real parallel can be drawn to the historical Papal state.
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I think your "personal union" take on it is a more accurate descriptor. Doesn't change the fact it's still probably perceived as a problem to have an Emperor who simultaneously rules the Empire and one of the Houses - hence the rules forcing the Emperor to abandon his family once crowned.
Sure... I think too... Most likely this is the reason why CCP choose this why.. (and you have less rework by a emperor/empress change). About the Category 1, why I have this wall of text. :P I think the best would be we leave Category 1 just ouside of our considerations.
The equivalent - with reservations for possibly making even more stupid parallels - would be if a Habsburger elected Emperor had to abdicate from the throne of Austria-Hungary and move his household to a dedicated Imperial territory in order to govern the Empire, simply as a historical measure to curb the personal power of the Emperor.
^^ I really like the first idea, sad that in Europa Universalis III wasnt any option for that... but I think you right... and I think it isnt a "stupid parallel". I think.. the HRE and Amarr Empire have lot of "hard" institutions in commen, with one different what you have show, the abdicate of the Housepower/Hausmacht/"previous Family".
But then again, the Amarr Emperor is also the equivalent of a pope, and in that sense a real parallel can be drawn to the historical Papal state.
Ehm would go for the pope in east, in Konstantinopel, the pope in the west had from time to time emperor like power, but I think the second rome would fit btter than the actual rome. Or even more east, like china, if you count confucianism as religion. So many ways :) I havent found what fits 100%, I think, we can just go and say.. "okay this element is like this and that is like this" etc....
_____
P.S. I hope Yarr will update the Heir page.
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The picture of the Empire as a monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances and that absorbs, equalizes and assimilates everyone like the borg is the result of Minmatar propaganda, really.
<.<
Oh my God... where should I start... it is just the emperor/empress body... I havent add the regions/provinces... because it is NOT a chart for whole Empire.... like the Privy Council page... dont get me wrong everybody can have his opinion... but next time... read the article... and the links etc.... and than come up with something good... or I will hunt you down with Popper :P
Well, maybe you could consider that my comment makes more sense if it's read as supporting your work? Not everyone is out against you, really. Relax.
Though it was really mainly meant in regard to the article about the Privy Council and how it shows that the Empire isn't simply an evil dictatorship.
Oh my God.... Here in this case I dont see any harsh word from me.... So I dont see were this "relex, relex" attitude comes from.... Maybe If you read the whole topic It maybe helps... [...]
If I read something like "monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances" and I have reshape the text about the the checks-and-balances (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Khanid_Kingdom_%28Chronicle%29) to "but the archaic and bureaucratic system of government makes it difficult for him to exert his rule unless directly in person" because of this: see (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr#Overview), than I start to ask myself. So dont see it as an insult, see it more as a firendly call to be more precise. So that it helps me... thats why I have wirte Popper down... to help you to help me, that the page gets better.
[...]
So Nicole
I've bolded some parts for you of my post. maybe you reread it and think about how my post exactly isn't one promoting any changes to what you've written in your evelopedia article?
I don't have a problem with you being rude or insulting me, I don't think you do it. My problem is that you're misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I've written. There is no criticism of your article in my post whatsoever. As I said, it wasn't even really meant to relate to your article at all: It was (and is) really mainly meant in regard to the article about the Privy Council and how it shows that the Empire isn't simply an evil dictatorship. It's also a reaffirmation in response to the OP's conclusion that "And this also means that as I thought, the Amarr governement is not owned by a single man. It has its own congress and assemblies, even if it is not a democracy."
So where does this relax attitude come from? From your determination to take what I've said as directed towards you, while it totally isn't and as by now I also made it explicit that it isn't and wasn't directed at you or your article, I sincerely hope that you can relax enough to see that it really isn't.
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The picture of the Empire as a monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances and that absorbs, equalizes and assimilates everyone like the borg is the result of Minmatar propaganda, really.
<.<
Oh my God... where should I start... it is just the emperor/empress body... I havent add the regions/provinces... because it is NOT a chart for whole Empire.... like the Privy Council page... dont get me wrong everybody can have his opinion... but next time... read the article... and the links etc.... and than come up with something good... or I will hunt you down with Popper :P
Well, maybe you could consider that my comment makes more sense if it's read as supporting your work? Not everyone is out against you, really. Relax.
Though it was really mainly meant in regard to the article about the Privy Council and how it shows that the Empire isn't simply an evil dictatorship.
Oh my God.... Here in this case I dont see any harsh word from me.... So I dont see were this "relex, relex" attitude comes from.... Maybe If you read the whole topic It maybe helps... [...]
If I read something like "monolithic, black-in-black leviathan in which everything is owned and controlled by one person that is in power without any checks and balances" and I have reshape the text about the the checks-and-balances (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Khanid_Kingdom_%28Chronicle%29) to "but the archaic and bureaucratic system of government makes it difficult for him to exert his rule unless directly in person" because of this: see (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr#Overview), than I start to ask myself. So dont see it as an insult, see it more as a firendly call to be more precise. So that it helps me... thats why I have wirte Popper down... to help you to help me, that the page gets better.
[...]
So Nicole
I've bolded some parts for you of my post. maybe you reread it and think about how my post exactly isn't one promoting any changes to what you've written in your evelopedia article?
I don't have a problem with you being rude or insulting me, I don't think you do it. My problem is that you're misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I've written. There is no criticism of your article in my post whatsoever. As I said, it wasn't even really meant to relate to your article at all: It was (and is) really mainly meant in regard to the article about the Privy Council and how it shows that the Empire isn't simply an evil dictatorship. It's also a reaffirmation in response to the OP's conclusion that "And this also means that as I thought, the Amarr governement is not owned by a single man. It has its own congress and assemblies, even if it is not a democracy."
So where does this relax attitude come from? From your determination to take what I've said as directed towards you, while it totally isn't and as by now I also made it explicit that it isn't and wasn't directed at you or your article, I sincerely hope that you can relax enough to see that it really isn't.
I sorry... You are right.... I have missread the first post.... sorry about that.....
About "you can relax enough"... I was maybe for a neutral viewer to much in Battleship mode (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCcaA1jQQk) :P.