General Discussion > Web Development and Site Suggestions
IC Forums.
scagga:
Sleep deprivation is an inspiring thing. Let us take a targeted approach towards the IC forums.
Mission statement
The purpose of IC forums is to facilitate interactions in the EvE world outside of the EvE game.
The design must be flexible and responsive to the needs of the userbase.
Proposed setup
a) Organisation
- Subforums would be created for ease of navigation.
- Initially there would be subforums according to the main factions (Amarr, Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari), as well as an open subforum for all groups (similar to the summit).
- Minor factions and a non-aligned sections would be creatable upon request.
- Intrafactional groups (e.g. tribes, political alignments, supporters of particular royal heirs) can be represented within their main factional subforum.
- A dedicated OOC discussion section for the IC forums is an option to consider.
- All threads on the backstage IC forums are publicly viewable. Private roleplaying is an exclusive activity that can happen elsewhere.
b) Threads can be created by users to represent multiple things
- An announcement/conversation in the style of the intergalactic summit.
- A virtual representation of a location such as a bar, library, social gathering area.
- A billboard/advert
- A continuing story/reflection.
- In the case of virtual representations, it is important for the OP to dedicate some time to describing the location. Consider graphics/images to improve the thread quality.
- In the case of adverts, I would suggest quality standards i.e. if you want to post an advert, if it is of poor quality it can be removed/denied by sectional moderators.
c) Access
- All forum users can use the IC sections
- Your name is who you are. If your forum name is Sue, you represent Sue in the IC sections. You do not post as Sue and say you are Vaari ingame.
- You do not impersonate ingame characters that you do not control.
- You can create a forum identity for the purposes of IC interaction in the IC forums.
- I am toying with the idea that some factional areas have limitations placed on posting rights for non-faction members.
- Also toying with the idea that factional moderators can 'clear' people to post in their faction's subforum by having access rights.
d) The relation of IC forum actions to other areas
- This is just another place for IC activity to take place. If something happened here, it can be referred to ingame.
- While you may be able to read about the happenings in factions your character isn't involved with, or read up on old events, you weren't there if you didn't post.
- If you meet a character here that doesn't exist ingame, that doesn't matter. It is something you can refer to, but clearly that person can't be found in space for some reason (insert creativity here).
- You can create a character that only has a presence in the IC forums, but please don't be ridiculous and pose as some widely known universally loved popstar that nobody has ever heard about ingame.
- It is possible to roleplay a non-capsuleer on the IC forums e.g. barman, entertainment at a the virtual nightclub, soothsayer thread, whatever.
- You can recruit/advertise/whatever here and follow it up ingame.
- See etiquette section.
e) Moderation
- Moderation of the IC sections is a responsibility shared between the general backstage moderators, factional moderators and userbase
- Factional areas have internal moderation from new moderators appointed from their own groups.
- Factional moderators are expected to take the lead in moderating their areas (e.g. Amarr), and intervene where there is failure of the IC/OOC divide or behaviour that is deemed illegal/unacceptable.
- Acceptable standards of behaviour appeals to the user's common sense, and is not explicitly defined to allow factional moderators freedom to use their discretion.
f) More on factional moderators
- Factional moderators are expected to conscientiously uphold subjective quality standards, as well as use their judgment to moderate IC discussions.
- Factional moderators are encouraged to use IC methods of representing their moderation (insert creativity).
- Factional moderators should be patient and helpful to new users.
- It is expected that they would make private contact with users having difficulty to help them out with backstory/fleshing out ideas.
- The userbase is encouraged to adhere to this attitude, as opposed to publicly embarrassing newbies.
- If necessary, poor quality threads can be nipped in the bud (catacombed), however this requires very careful judgement.
- General moderators can also intervene in factional areas if required.
g) Procedure for appointing factional moderators
- Appointed. Players can apply in the moderator discussions section or privately.
- Admin/General moderators decide who moderates, but there can be widespread clamours from the userbase that should be heeded.
- Criteria such as being of a sound mind, good communicator/diplomat, good knowledge of the backstory.
- There may be conflicts of interest, but these are not important if there is good performance.
- Serious concerns about factional moderators can be raised with general moderators/admin or discussed in moderation discussion.
h) Drama
Of course there will be drama.
[eventually] There will be accusations of unfair moderation.
[eventually] There will be accusations of metagaming.
[eventually] There will be complaints of a dying this or that.. poverty of creativity.. boring..
[eventually] Everyone will be unhappy.
The alternative is nothing will happen, and it is not practical to prospectively design an IC forum that is both enjoyable and bulletproof.
i) Etiquette
- You can roleplay the barman/whatever with another account, if you feel it improves immersion.
- It is preferable to avoid roleplaying with yourself.
- Don't cry if factional moderators find your roleplay to be poor quality.
- The IC sections will be inhabited by players who value the environment that they have worked to create.
- If a newcomer comes along and has poor form, elitism may ensue but should be followed on by kind advice in private. Ultimately the IC forums are for those who value them and generate quality, rather than a politically correct platform where every new shitposter is treated like a special flower. If you don't clamp down on poor posting, you undervalue the people who enjoy creating quality, who will then post less.
Apologies for typos, it's past 4am here.
Actually setting things up
- There doesn't need to be a full consensus on this. You can't please everybody.
- If the admin/moderators here give the ok, the forum should be setup without any further delay
- The forums can be fine-tuned by discussion in places like this.
Discuss.
Lyn Farel:
Scagga wins the day again
Ah well... I can't discuss much since all of this looks very neat...
Maybe... I am not at ease with moderation being handed to factional mods. That is, it encourages echo chambering and private clubs, when the purpose of the channel is specified to be public RP. I don't think the rule is bad per se, but it needs expansion. Like who are those factional mods ? CEOs of all the factioned corps (i'm definitely ok with that) ?
I also think strongly that the general mods (backstage mods) should use a specific account, as it was mentioned in the other thread, to actually moderate things, and not their actual character (unless we want to say that they are responsible of it ICly, which will pretty soon transform into a mess of accusations and bias and stuff, all ICly... but veiling OOC things behind). Players should not know if ModAI29837 is actually Silver or whoever else. Mod accounts should be anonymous... but subject to inquiry as usual in the moderation OOC section of the forum.
scagga:
--- Quote from: Lyn Farel on 16 Jun 2015, 13:05 ---Scagga wins the day again
Ah well... I can't discuss much since all of this looks very neat...
Maybe... I am not at ease with moderation being handed to factional mods. That is, it encourages echo chambering and private clubs, when the purpose of the channel is specified to be public RP. I don't think the rule is bad per se, but it needs expansion. Like who are those factional mods ? CEOs of all the factioned corps (i'm definitely ok with that) ?
I also think strongly that the general mods (backstage mods) should use a specific account, as it was mentioned in the other thread, to actually moderate things, and not their actual character (unless we want to say that they are responsible of it ICly, which will pretty soon transform into a mess of accusations and bias and stuff, all ICly... but veiling OOC things behind). Players should not know if ModAI29837 is actually Silver or whoever else. Mod accounts should be anonymous... but subject to inquiry as usual in the moderation OOC section of the forum.
--- End quote ---
Good points. It's been a while!
? Separate accounts
- I understand your reasoning, but:
- The userbase is mostly adult and should be able to distinguish when a someone puts on his/her moderator hat (change in font, explicit outline in post)
- I think that knowing who is moderating you is good when you have a small community, because it ties personal reputation with the quality of the moderation
- The emphasis needs to be placed on good communication and tact. Keep things simple.
Choosing the right people to be factional moderators
- The IC sections are being created by our community for the enjoyment of our community, open to other people to join but not as a public service.
- Private clubs / echo chambering is a theoretical concern, which can be dealt with if it occurs.
- In the meantime we have limited information, so we can only chose from people who we trust/know can do the job.
- As long as the person has a good knowledge of the faction and understands the politics, this would support them as a candidate for factional moderation.
- Ideally they are known and liked/acceptable across the major groups that are represented here.
- I would think it sensible to entrust the decision as to suitability to the admins/mods here
Makkal:
If a mod causes problems, complain about it. If other mods/admins agree they're causing problems, they'll be removed from their position as faction mod.
That's no different than the rest of the forum.
I assume moderation is a strictly OOC affair. Silver is awesome, but he's obviously not an IC moderator of the Caldari faction. OOCly, he can be the moderator of the Caldari forum, or the Amarr forums. Let mods use their 'main' accounts and a different text color when they speak to someone as a mod.
Two things I'd like to suggest:
-- The person who starts a thread, say for a location, is typically the 'owner' of the thread, much like one is the 'owner' of a chatroom in EVE. That way if I start a thread called [Location] Makkal's Smokin' Hot Exotic Dancing and Buffalo Wing Shack and a patron says, "I break a beer bottle on the table and shove the jagged glass into the bartender's face," I can simply narrate, "Cybernetically enhanced bouncers drag your ass outside," and that's considered legit.
-- I don't think we need separate accounts for background characters. I assume that [Location] Makkal's Smokin' Hot Exotic Dancing and Buffalo Wing Shack will have a barman, waiter, exotic dancers, blackjack dealers, bouncers, and a tattoo artist in the back, and creating accounts for each of these would be unfun. Likewise, people who visit might have a secretary, attache, or oiled slaves to carry their palanquin, and they can be handled under the handle of whatever PC they're with.
Lyn Farel:
The problem, Makkal, is when mods are starting to cover their own asses between each other because nothing is done objectively anymore when it comes to that.
--- Quote from: scagga on 16 Jun 2015, 13:37 ---
--- Quote from: Lyn Farel on 16 Jun 2015, 13:05 ---Scagga wins the day again
Ah well... I can't discuss much since all of this looks very neat...
Maybe... I am not at ease with moderation being handed to factional mods. That is, it encourages echo chambering and private clubs, when the purpose of the channel is specified to be public RP. I don't think the rule is bad per se, but it needs expansion. Like who are those factional mods ? CEOs of all the factioned corps (i'm definitely ok with that) ?
I also think strongly that the general mods (backstage mods) should use a specific account, as it was mentioned in the other thread, to actually moderate things, and not their actual character (unless we want to say that they are responsible of it ICly, which will pretty soon transform into a mess of accusations and bias and stuff, all ICly... but veiling OOC things behind). Players should not know if ModAI29837 is actually Silver or whoever else. Mod accounts should be anonymous... but subject to inquiry as usual in the moderation OOC section of the forum.
--- End quote ---
Good points. It's been a while!
? Separate accounts
- I understand your reasoning, but:
- The userbase is mostly adult and should be able to distinguish when a someone puts on his/her moderator hat (change in font, explicit outline in post)
- I think that knowing who is moderating you is good when you have a small community, because it ties personal reputation with the quality of the moderation
- The emphasis needs to be placed on good communication and tact. Keep things simple.
Choosing the right people to be factional moderators
- The IC sections are being created by our community for the enjoyment of our community, open to other people to join but not as a public service.
- Private clubs / echo chambering is a theoretical concern, which can be dealt with if it occurs.
- In the meantime we have limited information, so we can only chose from people who we trust/know can do the job.
- As long as the person has a good knowledge of the faction and understands the politics, this would support them as a candidate for factional moderation.
- Ideally they are known and liked/acceptable across the major groups that are represented here.
- I would think it sensible to entrust the decision as to suitability to the admins/mods here
--- End quote ---
Ah well, I would tend to agree with you eventually on that... It's probably that I have actually have to deal with echo-chambering, bias and mod self protection, issues that have never been properly dealt with in my opinion and lead to a certain loss of trust in the moderation for me personally... And i'm not the only one.
Well, that remains my opinion though, and I still am 100% behind backstage mission statement and this one as well.
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