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Author Topic: Skyrim  (Read 48382 times)

Crucifire

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Re: [SKYRIM] Post your Dragonborn!
« Reply #285 on: 10 Dec 2011, 14:32 »

Not nearly as good as my friends had hyped but I guess at least it was better than Oblivion, which people loved for some reason I can't even grasp. Bethesda writes some seriously terrible dialogue. Found it really hard to get immersed given how opaque the whole game is. I actually had a little stack of notes I needed to keep when playing Morrowind nearly a decade ago, that's not so necessary anymore. Everything you need to know will get served to you on a silver platter. (Durrr, wonder where I go to join the Thieves Guild? Better watch the loading screen tips to find out...)

Cruci's rather cynical CRPG review: 6/10
« Last Edit: 12 Dec 2011, 14:17 by Crucifire »
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Senn Typhos

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Crucifire

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Re: Re: [SKYRIM] Post your Dragonborn!
« Reply #287 on: 10 Dec 2011, 15:37 »

I try, I really really do.
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Mizhara

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Re: Re: [SKYRIM] Post your Dragonborn!
« Reply #288 on: 10 Dec 2011, 15:50 »

Where was Crucifire being a dick about it? As the shine is starting to wear off, I have to acknowledge the validity of every complaint he/she made. Bethesda does suck at writing dialogue, immersion suffers greatly in their games and the game has gone the way of 'lowest common denominator' when it comes to difficulty. I'd still rate it higher than Cruci did, but it's hardly 'being a dick' to give one's opinion on something.
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Senn Typhos

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Re: Re: [SKYRIM] Post your Dragonborn!
« Reply #289 on: 10 Dec 2011, 16:14 »

That was mostly just a chuckle for my sake.

Although seriously, I don't understand some of the complaints that arise in these video game-related threads. Like, really, the loading screen tips? That's just, totally unacceptable? I learned that a bash can interrupt a power attack and now I'm "lowest common denominator?" Just seems hyperbolic to me.
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An important reminder for Placid RPers

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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: Re: [SKYRIM] Post your Dragonborn!
« Reply #290 on: 10 Dec 2011, 16:38 »

I like dragons.
« Last Edit: 10 Dec 2011, 18:38 by Kaleigh Doyle »
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Mizhara

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Re: Re: [SKYRIM] Post your Dragonborn!
« Reply #291 on: 10 Dec 2011, 17:14 »

Although seriously, I don't understand some of the complaints that arise in these video game-related threads. Like, really, the loading screen tips? That's just, totally unacceptable? I learned that a bash can interrupt a power attack and now I'm "lowest common denominator?" Just seems hyperbolic to me.

On it's own it's not an issue. It's just another drop in the cup, you know? I don't mind the loading screens. I don't really mind some of the other things either. When they all come together though... well, the cup overfloweth if you know what I mean? I'm not calling out anyone who like these things, different strokes for different folks and all. I'm just saying that complaints about these things have just as much validity to different kinds of gamers. I'd kill to have Skyrim be on Morrowind's level of difficulty and immersion. (Barring some of the derpery that's survived in lesser forms in Skyrim. It did vastly improve a lot of gameplay.)

Quote
And there's also an entire thread called 'Skyrim' where people talk about the game, which is not this thread.

And I certainly wouldn't mind if a moderator could move these posts there. The subject came up though and is thus quite valid to pursue.
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Misan

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #292 on: 10 Dec 2011, 17:26 »

[mod]Merged some of the stuff from the thread. Crucifire's post technically fits in both, but since it caused the derail it got moved too. vOv[/mod]

My memory is pretty fuzzy about the difficulty level in Morrowind. I feel like I die a decent amount (only sometimes to stupid shit, I swear!) playing on Expert. It only stopped happening once I got dragon armor and then non-casters became well, a non-issue.

Some of the comments remind me of any debate about usability/accessibility vs challenge and discovery as parts of games. I think you can actually disable the quest tracker features if you want through the options menu? If nothing the option is there to not track any quests and have to find everything without giant arrows over the objectives. Bethesda (unsurprisingly) opted to make things a little easier to find and do to maintain the wider appeal. I don't think I can fault them for that, especially as there are ways to make the game more of a challenge already (like the hardcore challenge). Once the mod tools come out (January IIRC) that will be even more true.

WRT to story I think the link Gotti put here a couple pages back addresses that subject better than anywhere else I have seen. If I were in a writing mood (doesn't happen often :( ) I'd try to compare the approaches of Skyrim vs. say Uncharted 2 or 3 (:monies:) which are win from an immersion standpoint.
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Mizhara

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #293 on: 10 Dec 2011, 19:53 »

Thanks for the mod help, Misan.

And yeah, there's definitely solutions to the common ailments of today's tendency to feed everything to the player whether they want it or not. Sometimes though... I really wish they'd create games that challenged you right out of the box. I hear Demons/Dark Souls does well, but since I don't game on consoles that's not really an option. Failing that, I'd like a little more depth in the rpg aspect. I can't help but think that NWN with DA:O/2 Graphics would be pure pornography for my kind of gamer.

I really don't mind complexity, as long as it's not stupidly designed. For the most part, it's just not there anymore. The only genre it survived in is the one I bloody suck at, RTS games. Even there it's rare.

I guess I'm just saddened that everything has to be stripped down and streamlined for the dunces, largely due to consoles.
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Bacchanalian

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #294 on: 10 Dec 2011, 21:31 »

Looks like it took GOTY. 
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hellgremlin

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #295 on: 10 Dec 2011, 23:18 »

UNGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Joined the Imperials, since Ulfric seemed like an idiot with zero foresight, zero tactical appreciation for mage artillery, and zero feasibility as a leader due to prejudice against perfectly sexy lizards (I married one, we look forward to laying many eggs together.)

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Shahvee

(I'm a Breton.)



MAGICKA-ASSISTED ANTI-DRAGON ARTILLERY ACTIVE!

That armour hits the cap, as well as ensnuggles me comfortably against magic damage. Plus I look like a crusading Imperial badass. Fuck Daedric, it looks like a 5-pronged coat hanger. I found the helmet near a Shrine of Talos way up north. It singlehandedly cemented my decision to go Imperial. I mean if Imperials get to wear helmets like that I'm sold.

My weapon grows more terrible with each iteration of enchantment I layer upon it.



I am now Thane of pretty much everywhere, Arch-mage, Arch-thief, soon to take over the Dark Brotherhood, and the only real choice remaining for me is... whether I will murder Emperor Titus Mede or not. It's really bugging me. I want to murder him but maybe he's a good leader. I'll have to talk to him, which will happen moments before I kill him (or not.)

Exciting.
« Last Edit: 10 Dec 2011, 23:23 by hellgremlin »
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Graelyn

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #296 on: 11 Dec 2011, 02:06 »

Your playthrough is starting to sound like mine. I'll post about it later....
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If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!

Senn Typhos

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #297 on: 13 Dec 2011, 05:57 »

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An important reminder for Placid RPers

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hellgremlin

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #298 on: 13 Dec 2011, 12:14 »

Well, I did it.

I killed the Emperor of Tamriel, and ate his flesh. The weakling didn't even fight back. Pretty much surrendered to his fate. Not a good leader.

I started with the Imperial Legion questline, which fit with the Dark Brotherhood questline rather nicely. I helped bring Skyrim back under the heel of a strengthening empire, beheading Ulfric Stormcloak, all the while rustling up enough action to lure the Emperor to the province. Whereupon I killed him and ate his skin using the Ring of Namira. I also raised him as a zombie. I don't think I could defile him any further without some kind of custom mod that enabled corpse-rape and/or carcass puppetry.

I also blew away Alduin in the same day, in a rather anti-climactic battle. All in all, a very fun playthrough. The Imperials who conscripted me should really have done a better job of checking my records - had they done so, they might have foreseen the eventual devouring of their emperor, as reflected through my fevered daedra-worship, and the array of howling demonic weapons hanging from my mockingly worn, blood-spattered Imperial plate armour. That's what you get for trying to behead me in the opening cutscene :|

Now to the final task at hand, the grim task that replays itself with each Elder Scrolls adventure: the merciless extermination of every NPC in Skyrim.
« Last Edit: 13 Dec 2011, 12:22 by hellgremlin »
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #299 on: 13 Dec 2011, 12:48 »

As is my wont, I have now restarted the game more than half a dozen times to try out different approaches and methods before settling (back) down to my usual assassins. I have not seen it all, nor done it all, but I have sampled many zesty dishes before returning to safe and well-traveled ground.

Thoughts on ...

Magic: much better than Oblivion. The lack of custom spellcrafting does limit your options, but it also puts most game-breaking combinations out of reach. Illusion, a favorite/least favorite school, has gone from abusive to merely awesome. I love the fact that while there are perks that will subject even the highest-level NPCs, along with atronachs and the undead, to your wicked wiles, at least one class of reasonably deadly foes is forever out of reach. Accursed dwarven automatons!

I love the "overpower" effect for dual-casting the same spell; there's nothing quite like charging up a double fistful of destruction for the next miserable fool to round the corner, but for me the most important improvement to the magic system is simply this:

It feels like magic.

In Oblivion, you pointed and clicked. Click, whoosh, your spell was cast. Boooooring. This time? This time, absent a "continuous casting" spell, you must be patient, grasping and gathering in eldrich forces. It takes a measure of patience and control to hold your fire and let the power coalesce in your hand as a hulking orc charges with dwarven warhammer swung high to stave in your poorly-defended, low-HP skull.

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

Complaints: broadly valid, but useful in inverse proportion to their inevitability. Bethesda makes huge-ass games that are, by necessity, very loosely joined together. The storytelling is never, ever going to be tight, plot-related absurdities will always abound, and the fact that this is possibly the LEAST bug-riddled product Bethesda has released is saying a great deal.

As for difficulty: Master difficulty is apparently un-playtested in a way and to a degree that makes it second-cousin to unplayable. That's annoying, but I don't play TES: Anything for the frantic challenge of it. I play them to have a world to explore, and when immersion breaks down, as it almost inevitably must, I make a new character and go explore something new.

I do not want a TES game to kill me regularly, because, in TES, if I die, I just broke history. Death in TES should leave me with the sense that I really, actually blew it-- and generally, it does.

As for Skyrim being "dumbed down," I found the allegedly more limited interface vastly more engaging and vastly less open to abuse. In Daggerfall, I could, and did, create a totally magic-immune character who could spam max-statted fireballs at his own toes, instantly reabsorbing the magic only to send it lashing forth again, a class I named the "Vortex" for good reason. Morrowind allowed me to trivially brew potions of intelligence, which reinforced my alchemy skill for making my next potion of intelligence, which ... and so on. Pretty quickly, you could make potions of I Am A God.

Skyrim, to its cost, did not escape this last dynamic entirely. Alchemy reinforces enchanting, enchanting reinforces alchemy, and both alchemy and enchanting reinforce smithing, such that combining all three does indeed allow you to once again stride the land like a god (your only true weakness being plot points that strip your equipment). Not my cup of tea, but I also don't find it entirely reasonable to ask a game of this scope to provide me a challenge if I choose to configure my character in such a way as to deny myself one.

If I want a serious challenge, I go play Dark Souls, where a miserable tapestry of attempt, failure, death, resurrection, and reattempt is the entire field on which the game is played. THAT is a good game for the proud and the masochists amongst us.

... And it's primarily a console game, by the way.
« Last Edit: 13 Dec 2011, 13:52 by Aria Jenneth »
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