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[Dame Death]

Right for a while now I've been considering writing more about Eliza's training.
But as most proberly know kameira PF is  shit. First hurdle is these so called "Trails" would I be overstepping if I used SaS selection as a base?


ps: Meeting annother Kameira rper the other day gave me the poke i needed to start these again

[Seriphyn]

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=08-12-08

I thought that was pretty clear right there. It's not SAS selection, but from birth. Also as a capsuleer, would there by any reason to still serve as a Kameira? Considering we can purchase them off market, maybe Dame now commands a group of them, especially as a former one, so they have their respect.

[Dame Death]

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=08-12-08

I thought that was pretty clear right there. It's not SAS selection, but from birth. Also as a capsuleer, would there by any reason to still serve as a Kameira? Considering we can purchase them off market, maybe Dame now commands a group of them, especially as a former one, so they have their respect.

She doesnt still serve as a kameira I'm writing the storys bout her past before she was a capsuleer.

And cant check due to firewall but if thats the chorn it mentions "Trail" twice both in junior and senior subakos (sp)

thats what i was refering to when i mentioned SAS selection as it doesnt give any clues as to what is involved.

And Eliza wouldnt have the respect of any serving Kameiras, she turned her back on her faith remember (though did take her a while)

And Miz eliza isnt the only ex kameira out there even though I do only know of one and hes been doing it a lot longer then me

[Seriphyn]

It's not SAS selection as those are for members of the military already serving. Kameiras are trained from birth, which is not practiced by the British special forces.

The beginning

Every maturing fetus of the breeding program is rigorously monitored, subject to a series of genetic tests to see if it is developing to the exacting standards of the Kameiras. If the specimen is found to be genetically unworthy – if it would be born short, weak, sickly or afflicted with any of a multitude of genetic abnormalities - then the pregnancy is terminated. Any surviving neonates are given over to a specialized care centre where Amarrian females take responsibility for their upbringing in supervised crèches until the age of six, whereupon the infant enters its first Subigo House, a place of training and education.

Junior Subigo

Here the subject begins a vigorous physical regime. The Amarrians have learned that this is the most effective time to begin adapting the Minmatar body for military duty. Increasing in pace and vigor as the body grows, the training regime pushes the child to an established limit that will not adversely affect its later growth. The youth is schooled in combat arts and forced to attend an extensive indoctrination program. This program forms the foundation of maintaining control over the Kameiras when they are fully fledged adults. They are institutionalized into the Amarrian faith - taught about the Amarr God and his love for them, their place in his creation and their duty to uphold his law for the good of all. For all intents and purposes, they are taught that they too are Chosen. Although this continues to be a hotly debated topic within certain circles of the Empire, time has proved it to be the most effective form of control.

Senior Subigo

Most survive the rigorous Junior Subigo and undertake the testing trials at the age of fourteen. If they survive this tortuous experience they are moved onto the Senior Subigo House, where they are divided into combat-sized groups. In teaching them to act as part of a greater whole, their instructors take their training to a whole new level: The young neophytes are schooled in a wide range of skills including strategy, tactics, survival, personal combat and the use of firearms, body armor as well as wide range of military equipment and vehicles. If they survive this intense period they then undertake the final and most testing trial. If this is passed, they are accepted as adepts; if they fail, they do not return.

That's some of it but I recommend waiting until you can access the chron via a different computer. It's very detailed, and a very good infodump

[Dame Death]

Seri I know that chron off the top of my head but heres what I mean as you dont seem to be listening/reading.

they then undertake the final and most testing trial. If this is passed, they are accepted as adepts; if they fail, they do not return.

It was this I was going to use the last stage of SAS trails as a base for. As tbh I cant think of anything harder then those,.

[lallara zhuul]

It can be a test if the brainwashing stuck or not.

If it didn't a killing machine of that caliber can't be allowed to be able to go free.

Therefore it will be terminated.

[Seriphyn]

It was this I was going to use the last stage of SAS trails as a base for. As tbh I cant think of anything harder then those,.

I doubt it would be SAS training. Consider the vast array of technology that is of course way ahead of our own. Melee weapons that are still probably used, hovercars, VTOL gunships and dropships. SAS aren't trained to pilot, for example, tanks and helicopters, but I imagine Kameiras could even pilot atmospheric fighters and the like.

SAS training would have nothing on the EVE special forces.

[Dame Death]

It can be a test if the brainwashing stuck or not.

Technicly from what I gather it isnt brainwashing their rasied to belive that their chsoen as well. May be a test of thier faith yes.

but I imagine Kameiras could even pilot atmospheric fighters and the like.

Am glad someone else thinks this as its a little known fact of dames RP shes got her templer wings (not atmospheric I know)

SAS training would have nothing on the EVE special forces.

Its not the training per se I'm on about its the last phase of selection when their chucked into the woods for 5 days with almost nothing. But if you have a better base on what they would involve please say.

[Seriphyn]

Again, I'm not sure why SAS should be a reference point, considering you are referring to the Amarr Empire

Being chucked 5 days in the woods, though, I could easily picture being dumped on a remote, uninhabited world and having to survive x amount of time.

[Louella Dougans]

[mod]Be constructive[/mod]

[Mithfindel]

Elementals. Just ditch the power armour and replace genetic engineering with selective breeding. (I.e. breeding stock is kept alive, unlike Clan warriors in Battletech whose genes might be passed on posthumously after they have confirmed their worth by dying with honour.) That should give some extra material (if you have access to Battletech books). Though of course, any bloodname things need to be removed, since Kameiras will not have a chance of becoming truly free. Though I would assume that any Kameira who survives their ops is made of the same stuff legends are, so if you see a Kameira Sergeant Major (Master Chief Petty Officer), chances are that he knows what he's doing. Ranks up to Staff Sergeant might be awarded based on training alone, but higher ranks would likely mean that the guy has survived an effective suicide. After all, when you can't afford to nuke the site from the orbit, you can still use Kameiras.

...and oh, you'd likely need to figure out a role for a female Kameira. Think about it, the future Kameira are examined for weaknesses since before they are born. Women generally do lack the physical strength of men. So unless they are going to serve the Amarr some other way (most obvious being, um, laying on their back, closing their eyes and thinking of the Empire - after all, no sense in letting good genes go to waste) I don't see much future for Kameira girls.

[Jekaterine]

I was about to make a longwinded post regarding this thread filed with advice on how,possibly, such a person would be raised and trained.
I then re-read the Chron and it holds all the information needed as an info dump.

That said the question stands:
What manner of trials is it they're going through ?

I believe that the instructors and training staff know everything except one thing: Has the indoctrination stuck ?
So the test would thus be physical only to exhaust the subject and put him in a vulnerable mental and physical state where you can then gauge wheter the instilled belief system has truly taken hold.

If one agrees with my hypothesis then the SAS comparison would be a faulty one as that is done to gauge physical and mental endurance and if the applicant (volunteers mind you) is a good enough soldier.

As stated the would be Kameiras skills as a soldier are already known and noted down,this goes for their physical and mental strength and endurance as well. Up to a point their belief system and trust in what has been indoctrinated has been tested and looked at.
But man is ever beset by doubt in what he's told,except if he's a hardcore fanatic. To make sure you make them vulnerable and see if they stick it out. You bind them further by forcing them to commit atrocities in the name of "X".
If they stick with the blief system even though all hope is lost and is turning to the belief system in order to explain why killing,raping and burning women and children is necessary.
Then you have your man/woman.

[BloodBird]

I was about to make a longwinded post regarding this thread filed with advice on how,possibly, such a person would be raised and trained.
I then re-read the Chron and it holds all the information needed as an info dump.

That said the question stands:
What manner of trials is it they're going through ?

I believe that the instructors and training staff know everything except one thing: Has the indoctrination stuck ?
So the test would thus be physical only to exhaust the subject and put him in a vulnerable mental and physical state where you can then gauge wheter the instilled belief system has truly taken hold.

If one agrees with my hypothesis then the SAS comparison would be a faulty one as that is done to gauge physical and mental endurance and if the applicant (volunteers mind you) is a good enough soldier.

As stated the would be Kameiras skills as a soldier are already known and noted down,this goes for their physical and mental strength and endurance as well. Up to a point their belief system and trust in what has been indoctrinated has been tested and looked at.
But man is ever beset by doubt in what he's told,except if he's a hardcore fanatic. To make sure you make them vulnerable and see if they stick it out. You bind them further by forcing them to commit atrocities in the name of "X".
If they stick with the blief system even though all hope is lost and is turning to the belief system in order to explain why killing,raping and burning women and children is necessary.
Then you have your man/woman.

This, tbh.

Only alternative would be to create a soldier that has no way of even questioning one's actions or orders from superiors. To achieve that one will likely need a regime of brainwashing so intense that it never break, usually by enforcing it at all times. Something like what the Sansha's do with their true slaves.

I got the impression that the Empire wanted totally loyal, but thinking soldiers, not an army of will-less robots. The Khameira program is about as close you will get without actually lobotomizing your troops.

[Vieve]

...and oh, you'd likely need to figure out a role for a female Kameira. Think about it, the future Kameira are examined for weaknesses since before they are born. Women generally do lack the physical strength of men. So unless they are going to serve the Amarr some other way (most obvious being, um, laying on their back, closing their eyes and thinking of the Empire - after all, no sense in letting good genes go to waste) I don't see much future for Kameira girls.

I dunno.  I think a Kamiera female might make a good intelligence gathering asset.  Not domestically -- she'd probably stick out like a sore thumb if she were embedded among household or domestic security (e.g. a guard for the harem of a wealthy Ni-Kunni merchant) slaves. 

I doubt many in the Federation or the Republic would bat an eye at ... oh ... a mixed-race woman recently released as part of the Empress' slave liberation program.

[BloodBird]

I dunno.  I think a Kamiera female might make a good intelligence gathering asset.  Not domestically -- she'd probably stick out like a sore thumb if she were embedded among household or domestic security (e.g. a guard for the harem of a wealthy Ni-Kunni merchant) slaves. 

I doubt many in the Federation or the Republic would bat an eye at ... oh ... a mixed-race woman recently released as part of the Empress' slave liberation program.

Not just that. As soldiers, there is very little difference between the performance ratio of male and female humans. I fail to see why the Empire, or any government for that matter, should ignore 50% of their possible recruitment pool because females are so-and-so less strong or durable etc. as males. It makes little sense - a far more likely scenario is that the Empire has one 'expected performance' bar for males and one for females, the one for woman a tad lower than men. This would value the men towards a total performance report that they expect from them, while still agreeing women are just as 'usefull' as men though a tad 'weaker'.

So, while they might train special ops member for different things depending on gender, as your general 'infantry fo the line' troops there is likely to be near zero difference between males and females. Unless the Khameiras has some kind of traditional reason to divide the genders, and to me atl that's unlikely based on the fact it is not depicted anywhere else in Empire PF that the Empire consider the separate sexes anything but equal. Unless, I missed something...