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That small robots called "cleaner bugs" are used to keep space station areas free of refuse? (The Burning Life p. 74)

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Author Topic: Need advice.  (Read 5301 times)

Mithfindel

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #15 on: 18 Aug 2010, 14:25 »

Intelligence gathering, while I'd be rather fond to note that it'd be a natural role for the (Matari) Kameiras, is out. First, they're conditioned to think they're Chosen. They are likely religious. Teaching them to be Minmatar would be counterproductive. They might pass in a camp of recently freed slaves, but I'd assume there's a lot more effective ways to get informants in such places. Furthermore, Kameira troops - starting from the description of the in-game item - are kept in a tight leash. They don't act alone. Sure, they might go first as shock troops, but they'd be most likely followed by Amarr troops, and their officers are Amarr - a Kameira might, in rare cases, get to be a senior NCO, but warrant officers might be already pushing it, and all officer positions in Kameira units are filled with actual Chosen: Amarr.

A Kameira-like system might be for indoctrinating "spy slaves", but that's not Kameiras.
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Vieve

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #16 on: 18 Aug 2010, 15:31 »

Intelligence gathering, while I'd be rather fond to note that it'd be a natural role for the (Matari) Kameiras, is out. First, they're conditioned to think they're Chosen. They are likely religious. Teaching them to be Minmatar would be counterproductive. They might pass in a camp of recently freed slaves, but I'd assume there's a lot more effective ways to get informants in such places. Furthermore, Kameira troops - starting from the description of the in-game item - are kept in a tight leash. They don't act alone. Sure, they might go first as shock troops, but they'd be most likely followed by Amarr troops, and their officers are Amarr - a Kameira might, in rare cases, get to be a senior NCO, but warrant officers might be already pushing it, and all officer positions in Kameira units are filled with actual Chosen: Amarr.

A Kameira-like system might be for indoctrinating "spy slaves", but that's not Kameiras.

I concede the point.  I'd glossed right over the unit-orientation of Kameira training (I blame a momentary fit of mistaking my own messed up shit for PF:  I've done a fair bit of sandcastle building with Kameira-esque infilitration specialists/social engineers).

You're right.  They wouldn't be lone operators.   Thanks for the reminder.
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Boma Airaken

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #17 on: 19 Aug 2010, 03:31 »

First, I will admit that I didn't read the whole thread.

However, in the case of Kameira's, I would stick to an old school French Foreign Legion / IDF model.
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Dame Death

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #18 on: 19 Aug 2010, 05:08 »

First off i'll answer the female question.

On the chron there is a piture of a girl and it doesnt say anywhere that their all mail, Plus it does state they are enhanced so a kamirea female can probely kick the arse of most other males. (plus brutor)

As for the trails yeh it may be a test of weather their training stuck, as for what RL forces the Kamieras are most like after a agrument/decuision in ooc the other day I think the concesus was Waffen SS.

Alough the diffent race soilders fighting in a army thing did make me lean towards gurkas/jassinarys the fighting style would proberly be like the waffen SS plus they also tried the super soilder thing   
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Mithfindel

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #19 on: 19 Aug 2010, 17:00 »

And of course, the fact that in EVE the genders are equivalent. In the mathematical sense. Though if thinking a moment, there's a load of technical stuff where it doesn't matter how strong you are (specially if  the heavy duty loading etc. is done with MTAC assistance), and the higher tech, the more there's that kinds of stuff. Second-line corps. Some tank / armoured reconnaissance stuff. Signaling. For first-line stuff, I'd assume that things would depend a lot on culture and testing involved, because even if the Kameira women are stronger than most men, Kameira men are going to be stronger and therefore rank higher in physical tests - as far as I am aware, women are technically better in only one thing, swimming (since the body fat is divided more evenly, women float in a better pose), though even there, men are just stronger.

Amarr are rather equal, so likely there's no need to do segregation by gender or stuff (no separate rooms/barracks etc.), and the conditioning of the troops as well as likely having them grown up together solves the problem of romances coming into the way of command chains. The human psyche has a mechanism to prevent incest - allegedly, the Israeli kibbutzes have problems with marital arts (not a typo) assumed to come from growing all the kids together, so they mentally thinks of each others as "close family".

And of course, if the women in question are not required for procreation, I'd assume that it'd be within possibilities of the tech for them all to have hormonal control implants. Boost testosterone levels and lower estrogen levels, and the women will perform equally well as men (because they basically are men). Women do produce testosterone (though not as much as men), the effect is blocked by estrogen. (Most notable in old women whose body no longer produces estrogen - they start to grow a beard.) To be quite cold, it is not like first line Kameira troops are going to live long enough to be of much use at having children. And wouldn't afford to have the shock troopers be effectively off-duty for several months even in the case they're not needed for "live" missions.

There is, of course, a way to use the genes of the successful frontline troopers, as well. If the hormonal manipulation starts late enough, the eggs could likely be harvested, and if needed for their genes, fertilized in vitro and placed to some other slave. Kameira might get biologically mature early. And the human strength peak appears relatively late, roughly 25 - 30 for modern humans. If the harvesting is done early enough (teen donor), there'd be ten years of time to mess with male hormones before the strength maximum.

...and yes, if the above is even close, well, previously hadn't really thought how sick the Amarr human endurance program could be.
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Dame Death

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #20 on: 19 Aug 2010, 18:52 »

Kameira's probably don't live to 25 tbh as their put into service at 19 :P

I've always had it dame was sterilised tho, and for those that dont know this isnt something ive ust started saying shes had this story since i started rping ust only now trying to write backstory about it.
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Laerise [PIE]

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #21 on: 19 Aug 2010, 23:53 »

I'm sorry dame, usually I stay away from you for a reason, but... seriously?  :D

What you want is the guy I have as my avatar, 2.5m tall genengineered superhuman - and thats not really eve - neither is baroque armor and .20cal bore full auto rpg guns.

It would be nice if people could just settle on playing EVE instead of dragging anything from "insert anime of choice here" to 40k.

It's alright, we all know the apeal of above mentioned Smurfs and 40km long ships with cyclonic torpedoes and that - but its got its place, just like 'immortal' space captains.  :)

Edit: Oh, and to be constructive, why would you use perfectly good, genetically suited women who can be used for breeding, for combat - after all they can give birth to a perfectly new generation of super soldiers.
« Last Edit: 19 Aug 2010, 23:55 by Laerise [PIE] »
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Dame Death

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #22 on: 20 Aug 2010, 05:30 »

Noone questioned it when I started using it and tbh why not :P

EDIT: and for those that think i did just start this http://www.eve-search.com/thread/948610/page/1#13

Man i feel old going though that
« Last Edit: 20 Aug 2010, 05:37 by Dame Death »
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Zag

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #23 on: 22 Aug 2010, 23:47 »

I tend to think the trials are intended to test how well the Kameiras candidate took in the mental and religious indoctrination (Junior Subiago) and later how well the candidate took in the training necessary to become a fully fledged Kameiras (Senior Subiago).

The Junior Subiago trial might be a mental, religious and physical stress test to determine if the teen is viable stock to undergo combat training to become a Kameiras. The trial might include:

- Simulated torture to determine the mental and psychological limits of a candidate. Methods might include things like sleep deprivation, stress positions, electrocution, deprivation of food/water, being put in a hole/cage for a few days, being put in a hole/cage whilst slaver hounds sit outside, varied methods of pain inducement, mock executions and other fun stuff intended to push a candidate to the mental limits.

- As above, candidates might intentionally be broken to further psychological/religious indoctrination: "God is your only salvation. Embrace God so he may deliver you from pain."

- Induce increased levels of stress in the candidate in order to gauge their ability to resist and control it for future training. Induced stress might be environmental (such as throwing them into the wild to do escape and evasion whilst being chased by Slaver Hounds) and mental (as above).

- Variety of physical testing intended to determine suitability for future training.

Anyway, the Junior Subiago appears to me to be where a candidate is initially moulded to undertake the actual Kameiras 'combat course' so the testing is there to determine if the candidate is suitable to undergo that training. The combat training is no doubt exhaustive and both physically and mentally demanding so the Amarr handlers would want to ensure that they don't waste time trying to conduct such with inferior stock. Hence, the 'trial'.

The trial is probably only the final stress test for a candidate and inferior or failed candidates are weeded out during the course of a child's life and the Junior Subiago prior to the trial.

The final test of the Senior Subiago would be to me, a series of live-fire exercises intended to determine a Kameiras candidate ability in actual combat and suitability to join a Kameiras unit. So anything and everything small unit tactics, atmospheric drops, MTAC/Vehicle operation, urban combat, force recon, surveillance and how to kill your fellow man armed only with a plastic spoon. Once passing all that and deemed fit they're slotted into a Kameiras unit.

However, I think candidates are watched over very carefully by their Amarrian handlers during the entirety of the selection process and undesirables are selectively weeded out and removed. The trials being more of a final test to determine desired factors and traits in a candidate.

As for women being Kameiras, there's nothing to say they're not in it. In fact, as part of any Kameiras breeding program they would be essential. In much the same way as one breeds dogs and selects certain genetic stock to increase desired traits over generations the Amarr might do the same with the Kameiras.

Removal of the uterus and associated reproductive organs in female candidates would allow for increased uptake of relevant testosterone treatments. Would probably occur after the first trial as they would be deemed of 'good stock' and they would have the highest number of eggs available for harvesting and fertilization as they would have just hit puberty.

Hmm, perhaps all Kameiras both male and female are tagged as part of the eugenics program to ensure that positive traits such as physical endurance, loyalty, tenacity, adaptability and aggression are increased generation by generation. As I said, it's much like breeding dogs at the end of the day for the Amarr.

Loyal dogs that will gladly die in the name of God.

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Kazzzi

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #24 on: 23 Aug 2010, 02:12 »

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=08-12-08

The one on the left in the picture looks pretty damn female. Other than that, the article is gender neutral. Arguments over females not being able to be Kameiras is therefore moot unless you find another article that says otherwise. Plus when we made our characters, EVE said chicks can do everything dudes can do, they just might be treated by other capsuleers differently  :P

Kazzzi was once a commander of Kameiras, perhaps he knew Dame's mother.  ;)
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Dame Death

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Re: Need advice.
« Reply #25 on: 23 Aug 2010, 02:42 »

Quote
Kazzzi was once a commander of Kameiras, perhaps he knew Dame's mother

Bloody fithly mind :P Well even if he did Eliza didnt ;P

Edit: If he did plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz tell me it wasnt 22years and 9monthsish ago?

This brings me to annother part of my rp and this bit im unsure on and thats Alice
 whos dames sister would the females that bred the Kameias be in a postion to have "slave children" smuggled back to the republic?
« Last Edit: 23 Aug 2010, 06:55 by Dame Death »
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