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Author Topic: A God I Am?  (Read 6542 times)

orange

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #15 on: 01 Aug 2010, 15:32 »

The original topic is about how capsuleers are seen as celebrities amongst the general public. I would see little reason why Seriphyn would not be seen as such by the Gallente public, especially with his participation in the FDU counteroffensives. That is the dichotomy, being controversial amongst capsuleers, but celebrated amongst non-capsuleers.

It's right there in PF...The prestige enjoyed by the capsuleer is enormous. Apart from the celebrity status many of them enjoy they receive a number of other privileges.

It's not invented at all, it has been created from the result of in-game actions. The "other capsuleers" who aren't RPers choose to remain detached from society a la Burning Life
You are right Seri, to the FDU grunt, baseline crewman, Seriphyn Inhonores is a celebrity.

But saying "I am celebrity amongst the FDU" or "I am a rising star in the Lai Dai Corporate community" is meaningless to the capsuleer community.  Anyone can say that, have the in-game actions to back it up, and be accurate.

Our interactions are not with baselines to a large extent, they are with other capsuleers.  It all happens in the background, whether our characters attempt to remain attached to their origins or enjoy their status.  Real celebrities appear along the same spectrum from embracing their celebrity status and abusing it to wanting to not be known and treated as if they are "average joe."

It is acting as if our celebrity status amongst the masses matters with our peers.  When each of the demigods has hundreds of thousands of worships, do said worshipers matter?

EDIT: also, you have any idea how hard making ground in FW occupancy is? lol
Seri, I realize it was only for a while, but I tried to play a Gallente Factional Warfare character, in your corporation.  I was playing to try and capture FW plexes in occupied Gallente space when it was all occupied and when there seemed to be about 6 players doing it.  So I have some idea.

I had to make a decision as to where to invest my game time, as Jonny predicted. I decided to use it on LDIS and industry.
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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #16 on: 01 Aug 2010, 16:23 »

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

How exactly would an immortal demigod's behaviour differ with regards to sleeping, eating socialising and so forth? Especially when the person concerned has only been in that state for a handfull of years at best?

Now if you're asking why does my character interact with, say, his crew and the baseline folks in his corp. Well it's just good management technique to be seen to take an interest. Not only does it encourage the good employees but potential fraudsters are aware that their actions are under scrutiny by an immortal demigod. Also it means that he can better rely on them for protection in vulnerable situations like unpodding.

Why does he interact with the baseline people in his mother's clan and his father's circle in the marines? It helps him keep his status in perspective and gives him a sense of responsibility. I've also started playing up his concern and annoyance at people in those groups treating him with fear or envy.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

If you don't pick a side in a conflict and stick with it everyone will consider you an enemy. However this doesn't stop a capsuleer from talking to people from other factions so, yes, it is possible that we are less ignorant of outsider cultures than is the norm amongst core faction baselines.

As for the outlaws. If you are a core nation type then you can interact with some in a limited way by way of bargaining and by way of trying to turn them on your enemies.

However, the Sansha, Blood Raiders and EoM are so far outside the mainstream that I can't see anyone else dealing with them in any other way apart from weapons fire and interrogation. If you play a maniac then, unfortunately, your socialising will most likely be with other maniacs.

I mean, do you like to pass the time with psychopaths in real-life?

Yes, I know some Sansha players had been making very creative efforts at giving a sympathetic angle to the Nation. However it would seem that this is not the way that CCP want to go. As of The Burning Life it's official. You are the Borg. Just as the Amarr got the cartoon evil overlord treatment in The Empyrean Age. No, I don't think this was a good idea.

And, yes, I know some of you will disgree but in my view those three groups are so extremely outside the mainstream as to be almost unplayable except within their own circles.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

How would you portray this in roleplay? I'm not sure real rich people (who are the best contemprary analog for capsuleers) really pay much attention to the people who are serving them in their day to day lives. So how would you mention them?

I'd have to agree that the recent emphasis on this view of capsuleers may be the influence of White Wolf. This worries me as my experience of them (in the old World of Darkness setting) is that they came up with some good ideas, a lot of stinkers and can't seem to tell the difference.

Also, maybe they are better now but, they used to really, really suck at world building. I also never saw a scenario of theirs that didn't need to be overhauled completely in order to not having gaping plot holes that you could fly a titan through.
« Last Edit: 01 Aug 2010, 16:28 by Arnulf Ogunkoya »
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #17 on: 01 Aug 2010, 18:14 »

I think developing any subcommunity of capsuleers can be challenging, and while they might be extremely foreign to us as players, with strong leadership and consistency they can grow.
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Bong-cha Jones

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #18 on: 01 Aug 2010, 20:02 »

Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

Because I think the line between normal human and immortal demigod is a pretty blurry one.  Why wouldn't super-Joe want a steak or a bed to sleep in?  Why doesn't Zeus want to fuck everything that moves?  Right, right, he does.  I prefer to think of my character as a human who has greater scope to enact his humanity within than I do to think of him as inhuman.  I want a character I can relate to.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others?

Well, I personally don't.  Simon likes the Federation alright, but our corporate interests have given us a pretty eclectic set of blues, with more on the way (hopefully).  I think that the us vs them argument is one of making teams.  Someone to support you, and others to oppose you.  It's instant plot, which is not a bad thing.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do?

I'm playing Simon as pretty explicitly wanting the jet-set lifestyle that being a capsuleer provides.  His sad-making angst is that he's realizing he's the smallest fish in a very large pond, and is trying to change that.    Of course, I'd also exchange your enthusiastic 'so much more' for the slightly negative 'something other', but different strokes for different folks, eh?
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DeadRow

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #19 on: 02 Aug 2010, 06:44 »

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human?

Like others, I feel that Nicole and Deadie spending more than 12+ hour in the pod would be rare, though it can/has happened. All other times they would be doing other stuff that would keep them occupied otherwise I have no doubt they'd get bored D:

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others?

Deadie's longest loyalty has been with the Sansha. Though before that she considered herself a Mercenary and after it she is a pirate with no loyalty to a faction in particular. She is loyal to Vince Pyrce, due to relationship, and respects the rules of Veto, but holds no love or hate for the Guristas as a whole.

Nicole on the other hand is loyal to a faction, the State.

As Ghost said the reason why people choose one faction is probably because of the dated Standings system.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do?

I personally don't see it downplayed at all. Almost all the private rooms of Capsuleers that my character's have been in would be way beyond the hopes and dreams of many of said Capsuleer's Crews or dirtside citizen's. The reason Deadie doesn't have some vast estate on some planet somewhere is it would be bloody inconvenient shuttling back to it after each outting of blowing shit up. So she brought an appartment on station and filled it with all the luxuries she wants at the time.
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[12:40:50] Kasuko Merin > He has this incredible talent for making posts at people that could be <i>literally</i> quoted straight back at him and still apply.

Seriphyn

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #20 on: 02 Aug 2010, 08:41 »

Reply etc.

I think the primary problem is people mistake me for trying to RP a bigshot-amongst-capsuleer character, which I might come across as doing that. The issue with becoming a bigshot-amongst-capsuleer thingy is that it requires far far more effort, competing with fellow egoes etc. In addition, RPers are reluctant to accept FW as a meaningful outlet for achieving RP significance, for understandable reasons, such as :tonyg: and :brokenmechanics:* etc.

So even if I said that, Seri is the 27th top plexer out of over 20k, RPers won't care, cause FW sux etc. But FW is the primary way to be official defenders of a faction (at least game mechanically speaking). I have taken this and used it in Seri's RP, from a defining character point of view, because I realize that non-FW RPers will acknowledge FW as "the most important thing from an empire RP point of view", or whatever.

Except that pirate RPers are begging for pirate faction RP, even if they hate FW lol

* in CCP's defence, they have added ninja fixes to FW. In Dominion they reduced the required plexes to take a system from 32 to 24. In Tyrannis, they made defensively plexing in original sov space to more good than offensive plexing there. It basically means that it's easier to defend your own systems if you have at least SOME defensive player base
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Casiella

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #21 on: 02 Aug 2010, 08:45 »

* in CCP's defence, they have added ninja fixes to FW. In Dominion they reduced the required plexes to take a system from 32 to 24. In Tyrannis, they made defensively plexing in original sov space to more good than offensive plexing there. It basically means that it's easier to defend your own systems if you have at least SOME defensive player base

Side comment: very glad to hear this. Too bad I moved on. :(
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orange

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #22 on: 02 Aug 2010, 09:53 »

I think the primary problem is people mistake me for trying to RP a bigshot-amongst-capsuleer character, which I might come across as doing that.
It does come across this way in many respects, but part of this is the fact the "real" audience is capsuleers.

I am not attempting to nitpick you or your character Seriphyn, but rather use your character, one who claims his celebrity status within the Federal populous, as an example and a starting point for a wider question to everyone else.
Quote from: Orange
When each of the demigods has hundreds of thousands of worships, do said worshipers matter?
CCP may be portraying capsuleers as demigods, but I do not think it matters in the way our characters interact with each other.
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Casiella

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #23 on: 02 Aug 2010, 10:10 »

TL;DR version: We're demigods to NPCs. Not necessarily each other.
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Jonathan Morrison

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #24 on: 02 Aug 2010, 10:38 »

I roleplay Jonathan as a Capsuleer who while rather wealthy, prefers to tread his own path and make himself known that way. He doesn't flaunt his 'immortality' around his employees/crew and is relatively laid back, but staunchly follows a code of conduct that helps him, his crew, and his wallet.

All of his fancy stuff that a capsuleer might flaunt in a station or on a planet residence was installed or created in the holds of his freighter 'The Herald'; he does own a small estate on his birth world and maintains a small staff there when he decides to vacation.

As for interacting with people, capsuleer or otherwise, it is mostly from within the capsule as he stays in it unless docked and taking on new courier contracts for people or vacationing at his estate. He treats people how he would like to be treated, with respect to include his crew as working for capsuleers tends to be rather hazardous in most cases.
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Verone

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #25 on: 02 Aug 2010, 13:44 »

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

I don't at all.

He doesn't have an Apartment, he has a horrendously luxurious penthouse on one of the top decks that overlooks the biodomes and stars. He sleeps in silk sheets every night, hones his skills on a translucent solid crystal grand piano, and eats the finest foods in the cluster.

He has a 100m pool on hand as part of his personal living quarters as well as a spa, gym, sauna, sparring ring and pretty much everything else he needs.

He has a number of personal assistants, his own executive security squad separate from his corporate security force, as well as his own personal physician, consultant and accountant.

Why live in a shithole when the cluster is at your feet?

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

He doesn't. He's subcontracted to the Guristas, but Veto Corp serve basically as a corporate army and navy. They work for the highest bidder, but are independent and politically and morally neutral unless paid to be otherwise.

Capsuleers are effectively a faction in their own right, so why limit your ability to cut a profit?

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

I wouldn't consider my character normal.

He's an extravagant bastard who throws billions around as pocket change, he owns a bar full of solid crystal tables, beautiful dancers and awesome entertainers that he can afford to run as a free house (meaning free food and drinks) because his business elsewhere is so profitable that it doesn't even scrape the surface of his bottom line.


I mean, he still loves to get dirty in his hangar messing with ships and rigs, still goes planetside, and still has stupid fun in random ways, but in the end he's still a capsuleer.

I never figured how people can justify their characters as being broke, poor, scarred, miserable constantly and suchlike.

It's always been one of my pet peeves for capsuleers when people emo out about characters being scarred to pull the sympathy vote. I mean... fair enough, keeping them as a memento of something awesome that you did, or a rights of passage, sure.

Having them there as a plot device to pull the sympathy vote doesn't wash with me, I mean, if you were that emo about them, you'd go down to the cloning facility and be like "you, doctor, make me a clone without this shit".

As for capsuleer characters in Eve who are roleplayed as 'slaves'... god... don't get me started. lol.

Anyway... I agree with you... there's a few different little things that make me thing "wtf", but in the end so long as people aren't claiming to be Spock or whatever, I tend to just play along with the IC view that the person is daft.


Aria Jenneth

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #26 on: 02 Aug 2010, 14:07 »

My answers on these might be a little anomalous.

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

In one sense, I don't.

Aria never feels quite so alive, so "real," as when she is "being" a ship, stalking the depths of space. That, to her, is closest to what a capsuleer "is," and she can disappear for days or even weeks at a time into her capsule, adopting the ship's senses and identity as her own.

On the other hand, the fact that it's that easy terrifies Aria. She rationalizes her reluctance to "become a ship" full-time by various means, and is sincere about her explanations, but to a large degree she's really just scared. As a result, she (usually) maintains a rigorous schedule for practicing "being human," including preparing her own simple meals, continuing her monkish physical training, and dealing with others on a "human" level, including going to social gathering places such as bars and dealing with others face to face (not "actual" humans, however; she really has trouble relating to crew and even her personal staff, and avoids such uncomfortable encounters).

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

Aria currently acts as a "bridge" between the Caldari and Cartel factions, since she is emotionally attached to one group and circumstantially bound to the other. Also, because she does not consider stands on principle to be useful or constructive, she makes a hobby of puncturing other faction capsuleers' hard-line attitudes whenever convenient or amusing.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

As noted above, for a long time, now, Aria's experiences as a ship have had the crisp, vivid character of living reality, while her experiences wearing the body of a person she knows to be dead have taken on a surreal, dreamlike quality. This inversion inspires an existential terror, which drives Aria towards religion.

The Achura Shuijing sect values clarity above all, and, as Aria interprets it, goes a long distance towards explaining what is happening to her. However, for this to be useful, she needs to maintain a high enough level of understanding to monitor and interpret her own situation. In an attempt to maintain her clarity, Aria surrounds herself with an environment conducive to thought: simple, clean, and orderly. Much of the time, she maintains a lifestyle appropriate to a monk: simple meals, unassuming living quarters, limited furnishings.

In attempting to live a simple, contemplative life, however, Aria ensures that she lives like absolutely no one around her: the expense involved in acquiring a steady supply of fresh imported vegetables, fruit, fish, and tea is high; the simple, abstract artworks she favors are generally nevertheless very expensive; her expenditures on personal security are flat-out lavish. She also has a habit of casually converting sizeable swaths of station real-estate to her use: she once arranged for a large percentage of a closed deck to be converted into a "natural" garden for the sake of her own meditations and so that her slaver hound, Rui Shi ("Auspicious Lion"), would have room to run around.

Aria herself perceives no contradiction, here, but that does not mean that none exists.
« Last Edit: 02 Aug 2010, 14:13 by Aria Jenneth »
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Vlad Cetes

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #27 on: 02 Aug 2010, 14:43 »

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human?

I don't. Vlad is portrayed as a machine, something that has evolved beyond humanity and it's weaknesses.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others?

Vlad's RP loyalty is ultimately to himself. He does have loyalty to people he knows and his corporation/alliance.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do?

Vlad is limited solely through money and or/game mechanics. For instance, if it could be done, Vlad would have no problem ransoming a planet for goods in exchange for not leaving it a barren planet.
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #28 on: 03 Aug 2010, 07:11 »

Because demigods bore the shit out of me.
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Raphael Saint

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Re: A God I Am?
« Reply #29 on: 03 Aug 2010, 17:14 »

1. Why 'Average Joe'?

When I started playing EVE, I wasn't an RPer.  That came later.  I started this game, after hearing about it from a friend, with the intention of being a miner.  (Crazy, I know.  I'm the kind of guy that has fun playing Harvest Moon.)  When I became an RPer, I of course had to account for my actions ingame pre-RPer status, so Saint became a miner.  He became this commoner-status from-the-coal-mines average Joe who spent his companies big-pay off on making himself a near-immortal capsuleer for his own reasons (though of course he had a number of reasons he could give to the company to explain it as 'good for everyone.')  It just doesn't make sense to me to have this guy who worked hard for everything and resents those who are handed everything to become a self-indulgent megalomaniac.  That kind of thing takes time.

2. Loyalty

Saint fought in the crusades from the get-go of my RP, for a couple different reasons.  The Empire is his home, his community, and his religion says it's God's country.  Sure, he has a more egalitarian view than most Amarrians, but that really only applies among the Amarrian Empire.  Outsiders be damned.

3. Limit

This was kinda answered by my number 1.   It's going to take time for him to do a personality 180.  Of course, I haven't limited him in the ways that he can work for what he wants, and rarely limit anything besides where it is that he would go given his demeaour and who he'd willfully interact with.
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