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[Saede Riordan]

Something that CCP seems to be trying to drive into our heads is the whole thing about how capsuleers are demigods, we lord over the 'little people' of New Eden like a kid with a hose lords over an ant colony. Our names are spoken in hushed voices and we're seen as something greater then human, something so powerful and beyond understanding that we're practically worshiped. This is a really interesting angle to RP, and one I'm hoping to explore with Nikita and with Arci to a different extent, but I'm curious why this RP angle isn't looked at more, so some questions to look at, these are just starting questions to spur a discussion, but it seemed like they'd be a good place to start:

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

Disclaimer: I am well aware that many people do not RP like this, and I am in no way attacking them, or their choices of how they RP their character, these are merely discussion points to get a conversation going.

[Vikarion]

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

I don't.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

Simple: capsuleers still possess much of human psychology, and aside from the very real differences in ideology and morals, humans love "teams". It's the way we are. There's no reason for a capsuleer to compromise - he can't be killed by his opponents, so really, all he needs to do is outlast them

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

I can't speak for others, but the reason Vikarion doesn't indulge is because it would be "unsightly". Over-indulgence is a "Gallente thing", and, besides, what more does he need?

[Goshien]

I like to think I go past this character wise. I adhere to the fact that stripped of the barriers of protection (technology, wealth, lies and general chicanery) Goshien is very much flesh and blood. Laziness and not seeing a need for it, he would never have learned to fight. Nor even to really use a gun. If one were to get to him, on the ground, RP wise, he'd be a sitting duck for anyone who knew what they were about.

But inside that pod, that demigod status comes into play, and you're dealing with someone who can't die, and really has no consequences beyond finances. And he acts like it. Hence the asshole part. A part reflection of the basic internet asshole personality, Goshien very much knows their are almost no consequences to any of his actions, so does whatever he wants.

This is the part of the backstory I like. Not saying I disagree with any character choices, but I often wonder why there aren't more like him.

Granted, if we are just counting declared roleplayers, that last thought stands. If not, a large portion of the eve playerbase waving e-peens around can stand in for the rock star demi-god giant ego mentality.

[lallara zhuul]

1. Because my character is human.
There is no point or time in her life that has caused such psychological change that would make her buy into the 'immortal demigod' thing.

Partly because in the Amarrian culture (as the way I see it) there are a few pretty good stop measures for it. There has to be, because Holders themselves (whom live for centuries) would be prone to such hubris.
Basically the religion, innate hierarchy of the Empire, concept of godflesh, pretty much keep a religious non-rebellious capsuleer from getting a bloated enough ego to consider herself a demigod.
The concept of all mighty God that has a manifestation as great as the Empire in this world kind of dwarfs the individual 'demigoddery'.
The hierarchy of the Empire (as in most the Empires) has thousands if not hundreds of thousands of individuals that daily lord over much more lives or resources that a capsuleer could even dream of that are way higher in the societys ladder that a capsuleer cannot really climb up.
Because capsuleers immortality comes with a price, their flesh becomes tainted in the cloning process (one of the reasons Takhmahl were driven out of the Empire) therefore cutting the lineage between themselves, their ancestors, basically their whole link to God gets severed in it to an extent. How an individual deals with it is up to themselves, Lall has done what she does best, follow her sense of duty.

2. There is only one God, only one Empire built in His image, only one way to serve Him.
Simple as that.
The Amarrian religion and culture pretty much plays on the concept that all the other cultures are inferior to the Amarrian one, so why waste time with them. They are filthy heathens anyway that will burn in the fires of Hell for all eternity.

3.ISK is an illusion created just for the capsuleers to have something to play with while the Empires give them the funny money for the resources that they give to their economies. All 'wealth' generated through them is just an illusion to generate the illusion of false 'elite' so that they can be more easily controlled by the factions that have trained them.
True wealth is spiritual.
True power is planetbound.
Capsuleers have neither.

[Casiella]

I can't speak for others, but Casiella certainly doesn't. She's a bit of a loner with her own (evolving) goals, and in fact while she tries to maintain some friendliness with the Cartel, she also has considerable connections inside the RSS. As a capsuleer, she's not bound to any nation and takes a much longer view to a time when all humans enjoy benefits on the scale of those our characters now enjoy.

That said, she's not trying to build bridges between anybody. That's not interesting to her. Why should it be?

[Seriphyn]

A sort of ironic topic, given how much of a hard time I'm given OOC for playing a character who is NOT an average Joe, in reference to question 1, and I do RP Seriphyn as a celebrity, commanding the fates of thousands under his employ, possessing many luxury residences and owning floors of stations that are less visited (such as in Placid), in reference to question 3

Capsuleers are big egomaniacs; womanizing is likely very common. A lot of us RP humble starship captains fine, but it just gets a bit irritating I'm consistently rapped for playing a celebrity capsuleer to the hilt But I am oversensitive in that regard.

Speaking of womanizing, sleeping with 10 women at once is far, far worse than popping a Battleship of 6000, right?  

In reference to question 2, that is explained in another thread for Seriphyn. A large part I bet is because I don't narrate my character's emotions, feelings and motivations in my RP posts, that people 'don't take the time to understand him'. But hey, I like him as he is.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

I think they are trying to drive home the point that capsuleers are vital to the interstellar economy, and wield alot of freedom and power. They are certainly elite, and their ability to clone not only bodies but memories certainly gives that immortal feeling, even if not entirely true.

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

Even demigods need to start their day with a balanced breakfast, sleep, and personal space away from their job. I'd never portray my character doing menial tasks though. That's what an armada of support personnel are for.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

In the roleplay community, a majority of pilots are bound to factions. It's a good reference point to build allies and define your enemies quickly. Depending on the character's initial inclinations, I think it takes a certain amount of time in the interstellar community to develop a capsuleer mindset, but until then they still carry with them all the values they had with them prior to being one.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

I think there's a certain element of reactionary behavior to new roleplayers who don't quite understand that being 'elite' doesn't mean you're important in capsuleer society. People step into RP being great generals or Kings of planets, killing millions and being asked by Empress Jamyl herself to take to the skies and defend the mighty Empire from the slave race! Our response is "ugh, the meglomania is sickening. I just want a down-to-earth person who isn't full of themselves.", and I think its natural to want to make that, but at the same time, there needs to be a balance somewhere.

Are capsule pilots '(in)famous', important, and influential? To a planet bound population that depends on them for jobs, or a spacebound society that relies on servicing or crewing their ships on stations, yeah, I bet they are real important. To empire corporations that employ them for the dirty-work jobs they can't hire anyone else for? You betcha! To fellow capsuleers? Well that depends really on how well you interact with us. Newbies with no record and are a day out of training school aren't going to be regarded for, well, anything.

[Gottii]

Anybody else feel that the whole "capsuleers as demigods" sounds a lot like White Wolf influence?  WW games (which I love btw) are big on placing characters as mythic demigods (see Exalted, Aberrant, Werewolf, Mage, Vampire, etc) and play out how that power changes the person, erodes humanity, effects the world, etc.

The game didnt start with Capsuleers as demigods.  Im kinda thinking WW might have something to do with that evolution.

[Vieve]

Anybody else feel that the whole "capsuleers as demigods" sounds a lot like White Wolf influence?  WW games (which I love btw) are big on placing characters as mythic demigods (see Exalted, Aberrant, Werewolf, Mage, Vampire, etc) and play out how that power changes the person, erodes humanity, effects the world, etc.

The game didnt start with Capsuleers as demigods.  Im kinda thinking WW might have something to do with that evolution.

Maybe.

I know I used to enjoy the hell out of playing clueless mortals on WoD MUSHes.

More of them really should have gotten eaten (or stomped) by those so-called demigods.  Seriously.

[Esna Pitoojee]

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

Because, the way I've played him, Esna's actually afraid of becoming a demigod - not because he's afraid of the actual actions he would commit, but because he's afraid of becoming so far detached from his human side he would stop acting for the good of humanity and instead start playing as if he were a literal god, solely for his own amusement, and as such loose his chance to go to the Amarrian heaven.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

Esna's interesting in this regard - rather than being loyal to a single faction, he's absolutely loyal to his vision of acting for the good of humanity as a whole; however, his view is influenced and presented through the lens of the Amarrian religion - he sees the age where the Empire could spread beneficial infulence by bapping the locals over the head with heavy sticks as long gone, and favors a more delicate touch now. Hence, he's perfectly willing to work for the Republic or the Federation (albeit not directly against the Empire or any of its allies) as he reasons that the spread of awareness of (still Empire-loyal) Amarrians who do something else than whack people and yell "Heathens!" will eventually lead to a situation where the Empire and its religion will be accepted throughout the cluster.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

On one hand, Esna doesn't. He has taken over at least three abandoned deadspace mining colonies and refurbished them for his own purposes, he regularly makes use of his vast funds to pay for large security contingents, he's at least once bribed and threatened an agent into giving him some critical information, and (most importantly, in my opinion) he has used his near-unassailable status as a capsuleer to make reforms in his slave population that, were he a 'normal' Holder, would have had other Holders constantly attempting to take over his holdings, as he'd be thought to be weak and/or heretical.

On the other hand, for reasons discussed above, he's unwilling to descend to the level of using non-capsuleers as mere playthings. Hes very much still dedicated to the idea of working for the benefit of humanity as a whole.

[orange]

A sort of ironic topic, given how much of a hard time I'm given OOC for playing a character who is NOT an average Joe, in reference to question 1, and I do RP Seriphyn as a celebrity, commanding the fates of thousands under his employ, possessing many luxury residences and owning floors of stations that are less visited (such as in Placid), in reference to question 3

Capsuleers are big egomaniacs; womanizing is likely very common. A lot of us RP humble starship captains fine, but it just gets a bit irritating I'm consistently rapped for playing a celebrity capsuleer to the hilt But I am oversensitive in that regard.

You are consistently "rapped" because Seriphyn's celebrity is invented and forced.  From the perspective of other capsuleers, he is a "Paris Hilton".  He has not done anything that hundreds of other capsuleers have done and can do.  He is not SirMolle, Karttoon, Darius JOHNSON, CYVOK, etc or Istvaan, Jade, or Verone.  These are characters who have gained real notoriety and celebrity.

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

Dex does not hang out in bars, but he does enjoy normal food and sleeps.   Normal food on station is expensive, eating a real steak on a station in deep space is far from cheap.  These are indulgences on his part, he isn't eating a protein cake with vitamin enriched shake.  Sleep, letting the body rest, does not mean the mind is not connected and working.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

Actually, we can't go where we want.  Dex can't go to Caldari Prime without getting shot at by Fed Navy for example.

Some of our characters see themselves as tools of their empire/corporation.  They became capsuleers to better serve their empire/corporation.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

Because there are 200,000+ other capsuleers and those are who we interact with in places like IGS, etc.  A capsuleer may have as much wealth as a minor corporation to call upon and have thousands/millions of people in their employee, but every other capsuleer has the same if not more wealth and definitely the same potential.

Saying you are famous within Federal Freight for making the Placid Run 200 times and never losing a hull is very different than being famous for leading hundreds other capsuleers in assaults on on other capsuleer fiefdoms.

So, while each capsuleer may be a demi-god in comparison to the average base-line human, there are different tiers of demi-gods.

[Jakiin]

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

Food: You know what tastes better than being IV fed for 24 hours? Anything. Jakiin will take an hour out of his day to enjoy a fabulous five course meal over "Protein supplement 28817" any day.

Sleep: Once again: Beds are comfy, pod gel is not.

Has an apartment: Actually the Torash family (No relation to that other Torash I found out about only after cribbing the name from a random Kingdom NPC) owns several continents and has multi-billion ISK assets in half a dozen systems. Why? Because he's a Holder. He expected to live for at least 200 years anyway, so the fact he can clone is no issue.

On an additional note, where did this "The Amarr consider cloning sacrilegious" stuff come from? I know we've been told they consider the Emperor and his Heirs to have 'holy flesh', but never once heard PF mention anything about souls.

Bars: Doesn't really go. Not his thing.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

The Amarr are different from everyone else because they worship God, the Caldari are different from everyone else because they work for the greater whole, the Matari are different from everyone else because they're so focused on hating the Amarr, and the Gallente are different from everyone else because they believe in freedom and liberty for all. After being brought up to believe these things they're entire lives, the hell do you think that being given big ships is going to change this?

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

Because you're talking to someone else with the same power. You're talking to dozens of people with that exact same power. Ever hear of a thing called the 'monkeysphere'? Basically our brains are only made to consider up to about 150 beings as people. Everyone else is just lumped together into little bit-players. So when you interact daily with men and women who can control the fate of millions outside of that sphere, you don't judge yourself by how many bit players you can control. You judge yourself by how many people you can control.

[Seriphyn]

You are consistently "rapped" because Seriphyn's celebrity is invented and forced.  From the perspective of other capsuleers, he is a "Paris Hilton".  He has not done anything that hundreds of other capsuleers have done and can do.  He is not SirMolle, Karttoon, Darius JOHNSON, CYVOK, etc or Istvaan, Jade, or Verone.  These are characters who have gained real notoriety and celebrity.

The original topic is about how capsuleers are seen as celebrities amongst the general public. I would see little reason why Seriphyn would not be seen as such by the Gallente public, especially with his participation in the FDU counteroffensives. That is the dichotomy, being controversial amongst capsuleers, but celebrated amongst non-capsuleers.

It's right there in PF...The prestige enjoyed by the capsuleer is enormous. Apart from the celebrity status many of them enjoy they receive a number of other privileges.

It's not invented at all, it has been created from the result of in-game actions. The "other capsuleers" who aren't RPers choose to remain detached from society a la Burning Life

EDIT: also, you have any idea how hard making ground in FW occupancy is? lol

[Ghost Hunter]

1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?

I suppose it's perspective. I largely consider him, as a Sansha, pretty run of the mill. That is, if I had a better idea of what the Sansha controlled Capsuleers operate as, he'd be more refined to fit in their ranks.

2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others?  We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.

Mechanically speaking, the 7 year old standings system I believe plays a hand in this. It is cut into very distinct blocs and red vs blue logic. It is virtually impossible to have positive faction standings with two opposing entities due to how their omniscient logic works.

As to why Ghost is loyal to the Sansha above all else, ehh it's his home, basically. Rather crude to sum it up, but gets the point across.

3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?

Culture shock?

[Seriphyn]

Some examples of what Seriphyn gets up to that garners his celebrity status amongst the public...which is a result of his regularly participation in the war effort, and participation in the counteroffensives

- FDU spokesman, speaking to the press and public regarding current developments in the warzone
- Used as a face to promote the war effort planetside; this is a war being fought by capsuleers, so they are worshipped in this regard
- Visiting FedNav installations as a morale boost to the servicemen and women there, as they are at the mercy of the capsuleers after all, relying on eggers to defend them from hostile capsuleer attack.
- Being invited to interviews with media hosts, as a way of keeping FDU capsuleers 'in touch' with the society they defend

While there are others who are also leaders in the FW occupancy war, such as Val Erian, Hussain et al, Seriphyn (due to my status as a regular RPer) has stepped up to the plate as a representative. It's not a way to assert OOC ego, but a way to define my character. Which, IC wise, is massively about ego

Legend/hero status amongst capsuleers is a different story, and a different game, one I don't have the energy for lol