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[Zag]

Well, there's always the Intaki, Mannar and even Gallenteans who may have joined the Caldari in their war of independence as well as those who migrated from the Federation to the State in the period after. Then there are the Amarr, Khanid and Minmatar who may also have migrated to the State. Probably not as ethnically homogeneous as the Federation as immigration would be regulated by the Megas (If you're not going to work for a Mega or a subsidiary then what are you doing in the State?) but that would not mean the State is just Civire, Deteis and Achur.

Culturally though, the Caldari do appear to be conservative and traditionalists which is unsurprising given their history.

[Casiella]

I think you mean not as ethnically heterogeneous. Vik contends that they are, in fact, homogeneous.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Yeah, this article appears to misrepresent what we've been told about the Caldari legal system before, and doesn't really fit into the framework, at least as I've envisioned.  I think there could be civil rights groups, but the whole process described here...the Provists might arrest someone without cause, but then it would be their corporate lawyer going to bat for them because of violations of corporate sovereignty as other people have pointed out, not because of an American-style Fourth Amendment violation.

I do think that the Caldari have some sort of basic civil rights that all corporations are expected to abide by -- slavery is illegal, after all, and I suspect enshrining the sanctity of private property (even if private property is hard to acquire) is very high up on the list of Caldari rights.  And, based on the CBT corporate description, I'm not sure they have attorney-client privilege or anything like that either -- does France have rules of that nature (since I know they have an inquisitorial judicial system as well)?

But yeah....this article isn't the best I've seen when it comes to portraying the Caldari legal system -- somewhat understandable, though, since I don't think there's any easy analogue compared to the other empires (same problem as the Caldari government in general).

[Julianus Soter]

Look folks, this is simple. The article is now PF. It passed through all CCP quality and content controls.

The content itself makes sense if you get your heads out of the real world and in to the world of the State.

Boom: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3795&tid=6

The Providence Directorate formed several commissions and "loyalty" courts to investigate threats to the State. This is clearly one of them, acting upon their "legal" jurisdiction. Patriots and Liberals reject this because it is a matter of the Federal Provist Authority of superseding State tradition and systems that have existed for centuries. The Liberals have a full host of "Civil Rights" philosophers, Otro Gariushi was the biggest one. In his stead, these organizations are taking up the fight against Tibus Heth's "reforms" on behalf of what they see as corporate sovereignty, citizenship, and rights.

[Z.Sinraali]

Yeah, my first thought was 'LOLRIPPEDFROMHEADLINES'.

Look folks, this is simple. The article is now PF. It passed through all CCP quality and content controls.

The content itself makes sense if you get your heads out of the real world and in to the world of the State.

Boom: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3795&tid=6

The Providence Directorate formed several commissions and "loyalty" courts to investigate threats to the State. This is clearly one of them, acting upon their "legal" jurisdiction. Patriots and Liberals reject this because it is a matter of the Federal Provist Authority of superseding State tradition and systems that have existed for centuries. The Liberals have a full host of "Civil Rights" philosophers, Otro Gariushi was the biggest one. In his stead, these organizations are taking up the fight against Tibus Heth's "reforms" on behalf of what they see as corporate sovereignty, citizenship, and rights.

So is = ought now, and everyone should be content and happy with everything CCP puts out? That's interesting; I recall you singing a very different tune last year.  Something about "delightful stories and pieces of information about how much the Gallente Suck and the Caldari Are the Best Government/Corporation System Evah. "

Now, the link you've provided references the State Loyalty Tribunal. It makes little sense to me for that to be described as an appeals court. Maybe that's what was intended, I don't know. (You don't either, for that matter, unless you are ISD Khepri Shaleigh or someone connected to him or her.) There's also some distance between there being Caldari in favor of civil rights and "a host of civil liberties groups." Is it impossible? No, but it doesn't fit with the conceptualizations many people posting in this thread have of the Caldari system.

That's what this whole thing is about, you know. We're not children who're going to throw away the toys we're given because they're the wrong color. But when we think we're playing with legos and somebody suddenly hands us a piece of an erector set, we have to take a moment and figure out how it makes sense OOC so we can deal with it IC.

Is that okay with you?

[Ken]

Look folks, this is simple. The article is now PF. It passed through all CCP quality and content controls.

So did Empyrean Age.  Being canon doesn't mean one has to like it.

The content itself makes sense if you get your heads out of the real world and in to the world of the State.

I find it hard to agree at first and I think that is mostly because of the article's suggestion that the rights and powers of individuals in the State have a larger importance than in many of my/our preconceptions of that society.  Namely, the preconception that the State is a society wherein loyalty and service are so highly regarded that the dishonor of a serious accusation of treason ought be enough for a good citizen to do the right thing and "drink the (poisoned) tea".

However, on a third read, my impression is less of a new ISD writer mistaking the State for the Federation than of Tibus Heth's regime meeting more public resistance at home.  That such a challenge was possible and was publicized so widely suggests the Provists' wartime carte blanche is fraying at the seams, which is sure to make a fella like you happy, Julianus.   

Edit: Perhaps the ISD reporter (publishing for the Scope, after all) is Gallente and has simply chosen language of a Federal flavor to describe a story taking place within the world of the State.  A "host of civil liberties groups" could in fact be law firms subordinate to the megacorps from which these detainees hail, could they not?  Citizen's Rights First could very well be a Liberal-backed upstart put in place to make trouble for the CPD at a calculated moment.  It really is the language of the article, more than its content, that offends.

[Lillith Blackheart]

This needs a Picard facepalm, because that's my exact reaction to the thread.

So here:



Hopefully that site allows hotlinking.

[Ken]

*Face Palm* 

Picard facepalm

Copycat.

[orange]

Not that I'm saying "your RP is wrong", but the way I play and view the State is as a multi-ethnic, culturally community-oriented, competitive confederation.

the Caldari is stated to be "tolerant only of foreigners that stick by the rules"

Actually the Caldari are tolerant only of people that stick to the rules, not just foreigners.   Many Guristas are an example of Caldari who do not want to stick to the rules.

The content itself makes sense if you get your heads out of the real world and in to the world of the State.

Boom: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3795&tid=6

So far, Lai Dai and Wiyrkomi have pledged to cooperate with the new body, but the other megacorporations have so far declined to comment publicly.

The article provided lacks any real follow-up describing to what extent the SLTs have grown/have authority.  Certainly in KK, Lai Dai and Wiyrkomi they exist, but then they are possibly the renaming of some other security/surveillance entity that existed previous.  The other five megacorporations may have actually told the SLTs to pound sand.

The Providence Directorate formed several commissions and "loyalty" courts to investigate threats to the State. This is clearly one of them, acting upon their "legal" jurisdiction.

It is far from clear that the "Appeals Court" is one of the SLTs.  If the article had said "State Loyalty Tribunal" and not been vague then it would have been clear.

I understand the attempted point of the article, demonstrate the continuing growth of the CPD and Heth's power.  But it fails to actually provide any useful details.

For all we know, the "Appeals Court" is a KK court trying its own employees, while a Hyasyoda and SuVee backed legal firms/societies/clubs make a big-to-do about nothing considering their opinions don't matter internal to KK.  Some Scope reporter gets hold of "the story" and thinks it is big news because and attributes it to the State as a whole.

[Lillith Blackheart]

*Face Palm* 

Picard facepalm

Copycat.

Not at all, a Picard Facepalm is far more emphasized than a simple facepalm.

[Julianus Soter]

I appreciate that Dex actually responded to the content of my message.

While they do not explicitly state it is a SLT, it is clear that Tibus Heth is changing the State. The Provists are changing the State. People have been pointing this out, in character, for years now. So perhaps you should get angry IC and not OOC?

As an addendum, it seems likely that the people arrested here are within SLT jurisdiction, that is, one of the Heth-controlled or Heth-supporting megacorporations. But that would seem to be obvious. =p

[orange]

My frustration (and some anger) is with the ambiguity of the article.

I can not respond/comment on it IC because of this ambiguity. I the player do not know how it fits into Dex's world other than the CPD has arrested some folks without them committing a criminal act (although conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime).

Knowledge characters like Dex, Svetlana, Stitcher, etc should be aware of such as what which mega's court system or which megas provide funding for the Caldari Legal Foundation or Citizen's Rights First are not in the article.

I think you are creating connections that are not obvious, unless the reader makes the same substitutions you say you have made.  I have not made those substitutions because to me the article lacks the necessary details to do so.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Those connections seemed obvious to me as well.

[Hamish Grayson]

Look folks, this is simple. The article is now PF. It passed through all CCP quality and content controls.

Seven years of PF doesn't get reversed by the mistake of one junior volunteer.

[Hamish Grayson]

Look folks, this is simple. The article is now PF. It passed through all CCP quality and content controls.

So did Empyrean Age.  Being canon doesn't mean one has to like it.

The content itself makes sense if you get your heads out of the real world and in to the world of the State.

I find it hard to agree at first and I think that is mostly because of the article's suggestion that the rights and powers of individuals in the State have a larger importance than in many of my/our preconceptions of that society.  Namely, the preconception that the State is a society wherein loyalty and service are so highly regarded that the dishonor of a serious accusation of treason ought be enough for a good citizen to do the right thing and "drink the (poisoned) tea".

However, on a third read, my impression is less of a new ISD writer mistaking the State for the Federation than of Tibus Heth's regime meeting more public resistance at home.  That such a challenge was possible and was publicized so widely suggests the Provists' wartime carte blanche is fraying at the seams, which is sure to make a fella like you happy, Julianus.   

Edit: Perhaps the ISD reporter (publishing for the Scope, after all) is Gallente and has simply chosen language of a Federal flavor to describe a story taking place within the world of the State.  A "host of civil liberties groups" could in fact be law firms subordinate to the megacorps from which these detainees hail, could they not?  Citizen's Rights First could very well be a Liberal-backed upstart put in place to make trouble for the CPD at a calculated moment.  It really is the language of the article, more than its content, that offends.

You may have the right of it.  I'll have to take a closer look.