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[Sinjin Mokk]

Maybe this time he might be the one that gets tricked? I mean, they are probably expecting him not to comply again too...

Or maybe he has something up his sleeve that would guarantee a win?

Also, bwa ha ha.

[Morwen Lagann]

Maybe this time he might be the one that gets tricked? I mean, they are probably expecting him not to comply again too...

Or maybe he has something up his sleeve that would guarantee a win?

Also, bwa ha ha.

Considering the nature of the Succession Trials this time around I'm pretty sure that would involve something wildly against the rules that the players are bound by.

[Louella Dougans]

Maybe this time he might be the one that gets tricked? I mean, they are probably expecting him not to comply again too...

Or maybe he has something up his sleeve that would guarantee a win?

Also, bwa ha ha.

Considering the nature of the Succession Trials this time around I'm pretty sure that would involve something wildly against the rules that the players are bound by.

There seems to be a disturbance! wait, it's King Khanid ! invading the arena ! This is unprecedented ! Good heavens, he's just smartbombed the competitors ! On both sides !

[Sinjin Mokk]

Maybe this time he might be the one that gets tricked? I mean, they are probably expecting him not to comply again too...

Wait...now he's reshipping...is that a? No... HOW THE HELL DID HE GET A TITAN IN THERE??

 

Or maybe he has something up his sleeve that would guarantee a win?

Also, bwa ha ha.

Considering the nature of the Succession Trials this time around I'm pretty sure that would involve something wildly against the rules that the players are bound by.

There seems to be a disturbance! wait, it's King Khanid ! invading the arena ! This is unprecedented ! Good heavens, he's just smartbombed the competitors ! On both sides !

[Kador Ouryon]

BB: ‘‘Good evening sports fans and welcome to the Succession Trials. For tonight’s contest. You join a capacity crowd, packed with members of every race from throughout the Empire, all howling like Sani-Sabik in anticipation of tonight’s match ups. Oh, and yes, there are some actual Sani... Well, kick-off is in about twenty minutes time, so we’ve just got time to recap on the rules of the trials before battle starts. Your match commentators for tonight are Jim Johnson and myself, Bob Bifford. Evening, Jim!’’

JJ: ‘‘Thank you, Bob! Well, good evening, and boy, are you folks in for a great night of top-class Emperor defining entertainment! But first of all, for those of you at home who are unfamiliar with the rules, here’s how the game is played.’’

‘‘As you know, the Succession Trials is an epic conflict between  teams of heavily-armoured and quite insane capsuleer pilots. Players shoot, jam, or outsmart their opponents, attempting to ensure their patron becomes ruler over all of the Faithful. Of course, the other team must try and stop them, and recover glory for their own Heir. The team that achieve the most victories by the end of the match wins the Trial's, and their Heir is declared Emperor or Empress of all Amarr!"

JJ: " They most certainly are Bob..... but there have been some exceptions in the past. Oh and here they come now, the champions representing His Majesty King Khanid..... wait what's the Royal Navy doing here..... why are they shooting at the other Champions during the pre-trials parade?"

BB: "We're seeing stellar play here for King Khanid tonight Jim. This is exactly what the Trials are all about!"

[The Scythian]

Neither did I state that Khanid's return is inexplicable: I rather stated that is is inexplicated, when - to present a consistent storyline, rather than story jumps and bumps - it shoule be explicated to some extent beyond 'PC and TC said so! *poof*' at least.

Putin annexed Crimea, illegally, armed separatists, illegally, and continues to exercise a veto in the Security Council (only one of five nations allowed this right). Now he's building bases in Syria, making illegal flyovers in Turkey, and protecting Assad. Unlike Iran or most of the countries on planet Earth, this country that has broken every international law of war continues to enjoy the right to store and use nuclear weapons.

I'm sure the parallels aren't lost on you. It would make almost no political sense for me to blindly criticize Russia for what it's done. Doing so fails to take into context the position that Russia is in, and its history.

I disagree that a story has to be predictable, or contain a modicum of continuity such that the progression has to make sense to you personally. Looking at what's happening in the real world, it makes plenty sense to me what's happened with Khanid. Consider him the Putin of our time, if you will.

I agree with what you're saying about CCP in general.. the patchwork plot, the random executions.. but on the matter of Khanid's acceptance to the Succession Trials I think we disagree.

Khanid is important enough that he can walk away from the Trials a second time, without the future Emperor or the TC so much as blinking. As the Khanid accepted the Amarr ways back in time, so now must the Amarr accept the Khanid for all their peculiarities and exceptions.

[Lyn Farel]

To me the reasons behind Putin actions and decisions make a lot of sense too... Khanid himself and his own decisions and plots is very rational from his position.

What we are contesting is more the TC decision again to do all of that. It was barely explained back in 2005 and they do it again this year, and added Khanid to the Trials too, which makes apparently even less sense!

Well, I am pretty sure we can find explanations for everything, no matter how clunky or far fetched they can be, and I expect the ones at CCP writing this to have had a bit of thought about it (I hope?).

First, we never get to know those explanations, and they could be someday presented to us... It makes for a very poor storytelling when the audience doesn't understand anything most of the time, or when it starts breaking the suspension of disbelief (at least to me after all those unresolved "what the hell?" stuff). It is good to have a hefty dose of mystery, especially in Eve. It works especially well for everything we discover regularly in Anoikis... But for the TC and the Succession Trials, well yeah, I would love to be able to tell why the hell they did that, the same way I can say it for Putin... Even if it's not quite exact or accurate (i'm obviously not privy to what happens in his private cabinet...).

Then well, if he gets emperor, how do they intend to deal with all the game mechanisms that will become obsolete ? The Khanid faction is going to become totally obsolete since it is going to be fully integrated into the Empire, for one... And I really don't see them changing that to cater to the storyline. Which is gong to create an even wider gap between ingame and the lore. Which incidentally, contributes even further to break suspension of disbelief...

[Silas Vitalia]

1) Lyn is correct that it really doesn't make much plot sense, the TC would rather roll over and die than let Khanid back in their sight. Unless there was a clear TC plot to cap him.

2) this is the sort of 'wtf?' That a chronicle would really clear up.

[The Scythian]

What we are contesting is more the TC decision again to do all of that. It was barely explained back in 2005 and they do it again this year, and added Khanid to the Trials too, which makes apparently even less sense!

Well, it appears CCP disagrees with you.

From: HOUSE KHANID INCLUSION ANNOUNCED AS IMPERIAL SUCCESSION COMMITTEE LAYS OUT RULES

The Imperial Succession Committee today announced the inclusion of House Khanid in the Championship Trials, in a development that will be shocking to some but perhaps not too surprising to keen observers of Amarr politics.
.
.
The Court Chamberlain is believed to have assented on behalf of the Throne, a procedure that is reported to have been agreed to only after a conclave of the closed Privy Council attended by High Chaplain Kalefa Sufrin an-Kador of the Emperor Family.

From: Succession Trials Candidacy – House Khanid

The Court Chamberlain, in his wisdom and regard for proper and right tradition, has set out the rules for the Trials of Succession and affirmed the right undoubted of His Majesty to lay his claim to the Imperial Throne before the judgement of God.

I think if you're going to say "it doesn't make sense" it would be useful if you could specify what exactly doesn't make sense. In my opinion, reasons have been provided to support the decision (as I've emphasized above), so it's incumbent on you to define what sort of reasoning is going to satisfy your objection.

[Morwen Lagann]

What's 2005 got to do with it? He wasn't included then.

[Lyn Farel]

Khanid has nothing to do with 2005 (YC107).

The Trials made little sense in the sense that those too asked for capsuleers to champion and fight for the Succession, like today. In itself, it doesn't make much sense to let non loyalists, almost animals, to determine the next emperor...

At the same time, I try to explain it to myself with far fetched excuses like "well it's like betting on dogs fighting in a pit" or "letting the result play in the mysterious ways of God" or whatever. The fact remains that the TC never explained why that sudden choice back in the day, as far as I know, and still doesn't today. Not very glorifying for a people as proud as the Amarr, heh?

Whatever... I can find explanations if I really want to. I'm more concerned about the way it's handed to us, as usual. It doesn't feel genuine, it feels rushed and superficial. To quote Nico... "Neither did I state that Khanid's return is inexplicable: I rather stated that is is inexplicated, when - to present a consistent storyline, rather than story jumps and bumps - it should be explicated to some extent beyond 'PC and TC said so! *poof*' at least."

Also Sibs, I am really struggling to understand how what you quoted stand as "reasons", since in the very same article they specifically say "While imperial officials are remaining tight-lipped as to the reasoning", which reeks of lazy storytelling to me and may also hint at CCP not even able to come with a real reason themselves... Coupled with the line "in a development that will be shocking to some but perhaps not too surprising to keen observers of Amarr politics" which I read a huge OOC troll to those of us that dislike that specific excuse they served us..

Ah well, maybe it's the pessimistic inside me speaking here, who knows...


Edit: okay, it came a lot more bitter than intended... I actually think that even with its flaw, that storyarc is not bad like some others have been, we can indeed find explanations and reasons if we look into it enough, we can live with it and it sure will create a lot of content if Khanid gets in. It's more about the succession of all those... storytelling bum notes and gaping holes that tend to turn the whole story into a... nonsensical mess.

[Silas Vitalia]

What we are contesting is more the TC decision again to do all of that. It was barely explained back in 2005 and they do it again this year, and added Khanid to the Trials too, which makes apparently even less sense!

Well, it appears CCP disagrees with you.

From: HOUSE KHANID INCLUSION ANNOUNCED AS IMPERIAL SUCCESSION COMMITTEE LAYS OUT RULES

The Imperial Succession Committee today announced the inclusion of House Khanid in the Championship Trials, in a development that will be shocking to some but perhaps not too surprising to keen observers of Amarr politics.
.
.
The Court Chamberlain is believed to have assented on behalf of the Throne, a procedure that is reported to have been agreed to only after a conclave of the closed Privy Council attended by High Chaplain Kalefa Sufrin an-Kador of the Emperor Family.

From: Succession Trials Candidacy – House Khanid

The Court Chamberlain, in his wisdom and regard for proper and right tradition, has set out the rules for the Trials of Succession and affirmed the right undoubted of His Majesty to lay his claim to the Imperial Throne before the judgement of God.

I think if you're going to say "it doesn't make sense" it would be useful if you could specify what exactly doesn't make sense. In my opinion, reasons have been provided to support the decision (as I've emphasized above), so it's incumbent on you to define what sort of reasoning is going to satisfy your objection.

That just says ic: Khanid is in because.."reasons"

We are the nerdiest of the nerds and are among the only handful of dorks who would even care as to IC theology council rationales.

Remember the privy council hates Khanid, the other heirs can barely be in the same room. ONLY the direct authority of Jamyl as empress forced them to suffer the indignity of Khanid as lord counsellor.

With her dead, her authority pushing the TC and PC ends and likely support for Khanid. 

Only tash murkon was a supporter, and even that didn't make much sense. 

Now, there could be a thousand valid plots and palace intrigues as to why this new situation exists, but that would be something worth sharing as stories or chronicles or events, right?

Or maybe more likely they included khanid as they will definity use khanid T2 ships as tournament mandated round ships and maybe didn't bother to consult the lore jockeys for specific nerd plot support ahead of time? 

Anyway hail khanid every other heirs suuucks hail hail khanid!!

[Morwen Lagann]

Our characters can gnash their teeth and wail all they like, but the Theology and Privy Councils, and the Imperial Succession Committee, all give precisely zero fucks about our characters' desire to know (or not) the reasons for their decision, and are under no circumstances obligated to explain themselves to any of them. (Similarly for players - CCP's not really obligated to tell us the behind-doors thought process of several entities that are normally entirely closed-lipped about things.)

That said, I think I remember Delegate Zero saying on Slack that some chronicles were coming soon, at least one about the SoCT and related to Mentor Raish. I don't remember what the other was about but it's entirely possible it's relating to this stuff. Don't quote me on it though.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Eh... of course there is no obligation on CCP to do good storytelling instead of pulling a deus-ex-machina. That doesn't make it any better storytelling though.


Silas is summarizing the situation perfectly. I personally think it is terrible storytelling what they are doing there. It is by objective standards of good practice in writing a story, I'd claim. Not merely because there's an - as of yet - unexplained jump in the succession storyline, but because of the many unexplained gaps which CCP never pays attention to and which make every new gap not a mystery to be solved but simply another gap.

Of course, if your line where the suspension of disbelief breaks is as low as "I don't believe it, if CCP doesn't say that it's not happening.", then all is fine for you. I personally have higher standards as to that. To me, the EVE world has slowly but surely lost credibility to a degree that immersion into it is not possible for me any more, suspension of disbelief fails, because all those gaps are too prominent and one is constantly reminded of them.

My character lives in a world that's practically not navigable reasonably for her. What happens in the world is mainly connected by metagame-OCC interests of CCP and where reasons within the world for events are hardly discernible and those that are don't play a role in determining future events. She could as well roll dice as to decide on her actions and stances and would probably have a higher chance to be right then when following her world-knowledge in her decisions.

Silas is right on another thing, though. The majority of EVE-players is utterly uninterested in the EVE-storyline.

So, the point I made above stands: For good storyline and thus RP that is immersive into a world with a storyline, I can only recommend to look for outside of EVE. I personally will see if I find something else than RP to do in EVE. If I don't I couldn't give more fucks about playing the game than CCP gives about writing a good story for it.

[The Rook]

Wow, it is impossible to please folks.