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[purple]

Also, this seems like an excuse to introduce you heathens to lindybeige:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ClQXwkkH8A

If his theory is true, there should be planets from other races homeworlds that the would be poisonous to Caldari but not the natives.

[Tabor Murn]

Maybe that's why Amarr don't like walnuts?

[Morwen Lagann]

Maybe that's why Amarr don't like walnuts?

Or walnuts could just remind them a bit too much of wrinkly old testicles...

[Silas Vitalia]

I'd imagine all sorts of magic nanites or antidotes for people who want to consume all sorts of things safely, but that of course defeats the purpose of the tea, unless one is faking being Caldari for some reason (surgically altered infiltrators activate!)

If you remember that scene from Breaking Bad where Gustavo poisons 10 people while drinking the poison himself, I can imagine a similar situation with a temporary antidote.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

The only reason the Caldari went through the slow process of acclimation to Kresh is because it was the only green plant that actually survived the worst of the Caldari Prime winters - according to stuff I've read. For that reason, being able to tolerate the particular neurotoxin in Kresh was such a pro-survival trait that Caldari who had the ability seem to have bred out those who didn't.

The Kresh tea that Caldari drink in toasts is made very differently from the Kresh tea that Caldari drink for suicide - but regular Kresh tea still contains sufficient neurotoxin that it kills non-Caldari if they drink enough (four doses was suggested in the semi-official canon). The corrolary is that sufficient Kresh tea, even properly made, will kill a Pure blooded Caldari - there is NO immunity, simply an acquired tolerance.

Back when Pyre was more of a Caldari corp and less of a grab bag of monstrosities, players who joined and wanted to RP sometimes used to go through a welcoming tea ceremony. Pieter would supply enzyme pills to allow those who weren't Caldari to temporarily metabolise the Kresh toxin safely - that was entirely made up on my part, but nobody ever complained.

How do we treat Kresh tolerance in halfbloods? There are two basic ways that make sense. The first is to say that Kresh tolerance is an on/off production of a certain enzyme or bacteria - people either have it or they don't and having it gives you the higher tolerance that is canon for native Caldari. The second is to say that Kresh tolerance is a sliding scale, with standard humans tolerant at the 1-4 cup scale and regular Caldari tolerant at the 10-20 cup scale (for example). A Half-breed, therefore, might be tolerant at the 5.5 - 10 cup scale.

I think the second model is probably the best one, due to the following assumptions:

1. Kresh was clearly not uniformly toxic to the native Caldari from the start. Enough people survived eating/drinking Kresh products that doing so became a survival trait.

2. If 1 is true it can be assumed that there are people of other races who have Kresh tolerance simply through the vagaries of chance. Since the trait would not have been selected for, it will be very rare, of course and most will not even know it. Those who are tolerant will probably be roughly as tolerant as a half-breed.

3. Since it is genetic, according to canon, you can bet your ass that Caldari who get their children's genetic profile tweaked will make sure that their Kresh tolerance is pegged at the upper end of the limit, since tolerance to Kresh is the sign of a 'true' Caldari.

4. Given the unholy joy that non-Caldari RPers take in flouting Kresh toxicity, it's almost certain that non-Caldari capsuleers could and would tweak themselves for Kresh tolerance just so they can walk into a prole bar and order Kresh vodka.

[purple]

we have a chance to build some quasi-canon here.

Some stuff i made up:

Hamish's own brand of Hak'len wine from his private Kresh orchards:

Krekaa –A pomace brandy produced by fermentation and distillation of the Kresh grapes’ skins, seeds, and stems that remain after the grapes have been pressed and it’s juices extracted during the production of Hak’len wine.  It was originally made to prevent waste by using leftovers at the end of the season.   The flavor of Krekaa, like that of Hak’Len wine, depends on the type and quality of the Kresh grapes used as well as the specifics of the distillation process.  Unline Hak'len wine brandy most Krekaa variations are not aged before bottling and thus are typically clear and colorless.

Kresh brandy is a spirit produced by distilling Hak’len wine and aged in kresh wood casks. The Hak’lan brandy maker's objective is to capture the alcohol and agreeable aromas of the kresh grape, and leave all of the off-tastes and bitter chemicals behind in the waste water. Making Hak’len brandy is an art that balances the requirement to remove the undesirable flavors with the necessity of preserving the character of  kresh.  Some Hak’len brandy makers double distill their brandy, meaning it they concentrate the alcohol twice leaving the final alcohol content around 71%.  However, with a single distillation and thus  lower  alcohol content,  more of the underlying flavors will remain in the brandy.   This means a much greater chance that off flavors will also make their way into the final product.   

The brandy is not yet ready to drink after distillation it must first be placed in kresh wood casks and allowed to age, an important step in the production process.  Most Hak’len brandy consumed today is less than six years old. However, some finer Hak’len brandies are aged for more than 50 years .  As the brandy ages, it absorbs flavors from the kresh wood while its own structure softens, becoming less astringent. Through evaporation, brandy will lose about 1% of its alcohol per year for the first 50 years or so it is in the cask.    The largest mass producer of Hak’len brandy is Wiyrkomi, and capsuleers may find top shelf Hak’len brandy for sale at Wiyrkomi stations listed on the SCC market as ‘Spirits.’

And so the Achurian's weren't left out:


Next time you're in Caldari space, check the spirit's market and note the station.   It'll be Wiyrkomi.

[Louella Dougans]

chance mutations, recessive genes, Caldari salivary glands and/or pancreas produce one or more extra enzymes, which happens to neutralise the toxic component of Kresh leaves, turns it into some other substance that is non-toxic.

if you go with salivary glands producing enzyme A, that turns Kresh toxin into substance X (less toxic), and pancreas producing enzyme B, that turns substance X into entirely harmless molecules, as well as enzyme C that turns Kresh toxin directly into harmless molecules, then it means that full-Caldari people have all 6 genes to fully digest Kresh, and can do so at a high concentration, because of the simultaneous action of the A+B enzymes and the C enzyme. Still possible to overload the reaction with a sufficient concentration of Kresh toxin.

A half-Caldari person might be lucky, and their non-caldari parent has a gene that allows producing of either enzyme A or C, making the Kresh drinkable. If they only have enzyme A, then they might be ill, but not severely. They couldn't drink it at a high concentration, because they only have one of the necessary enzyme reactions.

Make the mutation that allows the salivary gland to produce enzyme A fairly common, and the mutations that allow the pancreas to produce B and C less common, then most of the original Caldari Prime population could drink the Kresh at a low concentration, because of being able to produce A, with a few lucky people being able to drink it with no effect, because they produce B or C as well.

[purple]

[Quintrala]

(Kresh-intolerant individual)

Vizzini: Because Kresh comes from Caldari Prime, as everyone knows, and Caldari Prime is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

[Drinks, dies]

Man in Black: They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to Kresh.




On a different note, I think the Kresh wine pics are awesome! They are very well done, feel real and modern too. Wine is part of culture and these just convey this perfectly 

Q

[Vikarion]

Hamish, that is awesome. Very awesome. 

[Utari Onzo]

chance mutations, recessive genes, Caldari salivary glands and/or pancreas produce one or more extra enzymes, which happens to neutralise the toxic component of Kresh leaves, turns it into some other substance that is non-toxic.

if you go with salivary glands producing enzyme A, that turns Kresh toxin into substance X (less toxic), and pancreas producing enzyme B, that turns substance X into entirely harmless molecules, as well as enzyme C that turns Kresh toxin directly into harmless molecules, then it means that full-Caldari people have all 6 genes to fully digest Kresh, and can do so at a high concentration, because of the simultaneous action of the A+B enzymes and the C enzyme. Still possible to overload the reaction with a sufficient concentration of Kresh toxin.

A half-Caldari person might be lucky, and their non-caldari parent has a gene that allows producing of either enzyme A or C, making the Kresh drinkable. If they only have enzyme A, then they might be ill, but not severely. They couldn't drink it at a high concentration, because they only have one of the necessary enzyme reactions.

Make the mutation that allows the salivary gland to produce enzyme A fairly common, and the mutations that allow the pancreas to produce B and C less common, then most of the original Caldari Prime population could drink the Kresh at a low concentration, because of being able to produce A, with a few lucky people being able to drink it with no effect, because they produce B or C as well.

Hmm, I like the novelty of this approach, especially considering the fact that the AS3MT example I gave works by 'catalysing' arsenic. Basically, it allows the body to 'metabolise' it before the toxin can cause harm in its base state. A similar gene function could be applied to metabolising the paralytic causing compounds in kresh. This basically means you can drink up to a certain limit of kresh (or specifically the toxin that causes paralysis), as much as your body can metabolise in a given time, but just like with alcohol too much too soon will still kill you.

SCIENCE LINKY: http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=AS3MT

In this regards, I'd like to propose the following for criticism/discussion.

The Ethnic Caldari carry in them a combination of dominant and recessive genes which combined allow for the metabolism of kresh and its toxin. These genes relate to general cell metobolic functions helping to catalyse the toxin in the short term and liver/kidney function which serve for help flush out the remaining toxic compounds. This establishes an upper limit for all, with those having the 'full collection' of genes having the highest level of natural resistance.. Half breeds would inherite the dominant genes giving them some amount of kresh resistance (perhaps a more dilluted version of the tea) but it's a roll of the dice if they get some, or all, of the reccessive genes too.

I propose that the genes for cell function be of the dominant type, since they relate to short term toxicity resistance, and genes towards liver/kidney function be recessive.

TL;DR This is a combination of Pieter's sliding scale idea with some psuedo science shoved in to give half breeds a rare 'chance' of having higher, ethnic Caldari resistance.

EDIT:

That's the science part I propose as being the where/what ifs of physically drinking kresh, I'd like to hazard a guess at assuming the reasons Caldari don't let anyone, even half bloods, drink would be because the majority of Caldari culture is bent towards reinforcing itself? By that I mean you can only partake in certain customs if you're fully ethnic Civire/Deteis because we want to promote ethnic hemogony to keep stability within the nation?

IDK I'm just guessing here I think Pieter would do a better job here as my Caldari lore skills suck.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Caldari culture is, of course, very much of the 'circled wagons' mentality. It has survived for centuries as a completely separate culture within or next to the Federation, of course, so it has had to be!

Kresh tea and the whole "hak'len" toast dates back to the war - as such, I think they'd be very unhappy at foreigners trying to butt into something that's so much a part of the culture. So significant a proportion of foreigners who try get killed that I imagine the story is that all non-Caldari who try perish but, if you think about it, Russian roulette has only a 1:6 chance of killing and THAT'S viewed as virtual suicide.

[Jace]

One of the difficulties with this sort of topic in Caldari PF is that the earlier style of Caldari lore is somewhat different than the later revisions and additions. The earlier Caldari PF has many references to the divine (such as that tea article); the later PF strongly implies that Caldari spirituality is largely metaphorical and that it is more philosophical than divine. People just have to do it their way with people that jive well with that way.

[Vikarion]

One of the difficulties with this sort of topic in Caldari PF is that the earlier style of Caldari lore is somewhat different than the later revisions and additions. The earlier Caldari PF has many references to the divine (such as that tea article); the later PF strongly implies that Caldari spirituality is largely metaphorical and that it is more philosophical than divine. People just have to do it their way with people that jive well with that way.

EvE Source sorta tries to reconcile that by stating that the Caldari are almost entirely atheistic, but also have a great love of tradition, aphorisms, proverbs, and so forth. So, for a Caldari, it is probably entirely within her mental model of the world to claim that there is nothing actually supernatural, and then go engage in a contemplation of the divine nature of the Kresh tree. In her case, it would not be divine in the sense of being a god, but in the sense of being imbued with meaning by past generations of Caldari, and embodying other divine attributes (beautiful but dangerous, bitter but strong, etc) that might give her reason to show respect and admiration for the entire conceptual image of the Kresh tree, as both symbol and embodiment.

[Jace]

One of the difficulties with this sort of topic in Caldari PF is that the earlier style of Caldari lore is somewhat different than the later revisions and additions. The earlier Caldari PF has many references to the divine (such as that tea article); the later PF strongly implies that Caldari spirituality is largely metaphorical and that it is more philosophical than divine. People just have to do it their way with people that jive well with that way.

EvE Source sorta tries to reconcile that by stating that the Caldari are almost entirely atheistic, but also have a great love of tradition, aphorisms, proverbs, and so forth. So, for a Caldari, it is probably entirely within her mental model of the world to claim that there is nothing actually supernatural, and then go engage in a contemplation of the divine nature of the Kresh tree. In her case, it would not be divine in the sense of being a god, but in the sense of being imbued with meaning by past generations of Caldari, and embodying other divine attributes (beautiful but dangerous, bitter but strong, etc) that might give her reason to show respect and admiration for the entire conceptual image of the Kresh tree, as both symbol and embodiment.

I agree.

Edit: I just realized that may have sounded curt. I personally am of the opinion that the Caldari section of Source sorted through many of these issues and inconsistencies very well. So I do actually agree. =)