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[kalaratiri]

The Guristas, at least according to TBL, are staggeringly wealthy. They're not just pirates who got above their stations, they're pirates who won and set up their own nullsec Tortuga. The Rabbit is literally terraforming his own personal planet. They have ISK on an unbelievable scale for a mostly non-capsuleer outfit.

[Shal Novastorm]

Yea there's no blanket 'pirate faction' to use, some are huge and interlinked to increase their wealth and power, some are just scrubs with ships. Guristas are probably at the top of the list though, as Kal said they're basically a rogue interstellar empire that happens to do pirate shit.

[Silas Vitalia]

Just off the cuff in my mind:

My opinions only, can't find PF to back this up off top of my head:

Rankings total outright military pew pew strength:
Sansha's Nation
Guristas
Angels
Blood Raiders
Serpentis
Mordu's Legion
EoM


Economic Strength:
Guristas
Angels
Serpentis
Mordu's Legion
Blood Raiders
EoM
Sansha's Nation (they don't participate/trade with the cluster proper per se so they aren't really included)


"Terrorist" effect on target populace
Sansha's Nation
Blood Raiders
EoM
Serpentis
Angels
Guristas
Mordu's Legion

Integration with the big 4 as far as economy/trade/buying-selling stuff
Serpentis
Mordu's Legion
Guristas
Angels
Blood Raiders
EoM
Sansha

Interesting topic!

[Silver Night]

I'd place the major pirate factions mostly in between the big 4 and the subfactions within the big 4 in terms of power. Like, the Guristas are probably more powerful (on average, across the sorts of metrics that might indicate power) than Ishukone, but certainly less powerful than the State.

Also, the Blood Raiders were at one time kicked out of Empire space. They used to have stations/sov in the Bleak Lands, and they got kicked out about 10 years ago. (It was obviously a balance situation, but it was awesome that CCP decided to make an event out of it).

This is all very relative, of course. Even the smaller factions like Mordu's Legion likely have 'populations' many times that of earth and control multiple solar systems. So even as a relatively weak faction they wield a tremendous amount of power in absolute terms.

[Blue spy]

I'd agree with Silas; on a lot of those points.

The Angel Cartel while probably being the largest pirate entity in New Eden is, according to the lore also probably the most 'above board' of them. They've been caught in the past making large investments into the Caldari State and the Caldari were quite vocal in voicing their displeasure when CONCORD put a halt to it. (Or atleast the extent of which they were aware of.)

In YC110 they made a pretty obvious show of force when they 'annexed' the border system of Skarkon; gathering ten million signatures and winning popular recognition as the planets prefered governing authority, sparking a political takeover in the Minmatar Republic; political machinations like that paint the picture of a pretty cunning political power. They seem to operate via carrot and stick, they'll plunder your colony blind if given the opportunity, and then afterwards sell you the tools you need to rebuild it. They gain a large portion of their income in the grey area of criminality. Be it selling restricted products on Caldari worlds; or stepping in to correct failures in the market to supply goods or services. The Guristas are also heavily involved in those markets and could easily be catching up to the Angel Cartel in terms of influence in empire space.

""The Cartel's got guards patrolling the streets," noted one resident, 23-year old Jakis Tarell, speaking of the armed soldiers the Angel Cartel landed on the planet as part of the takeover. "They're keeping the peace. And they're already offering people chances to work for them. I never thought I'd get off the planet. Maybe now I can."

The Burning Life went into a lot of awesome detail about the pirate factions. It painted a picture of the Angel Cartel as an empire without borders. An organisation so large and ambiguous that everybody from your local drug dealer to your accountant could be involved in it. There's no barrier to joining; nor do they look for anything in particular in affiliates. By joining you become a cog in a very large, very ambiguous machine, and nobody inside of it really has any idea where it begins or ends.

There's a lot of depth to the pirate factions in New Eden that make them out to be above simply being just the looting pillaging kind. It seems like both the Angels and Guristas have taken their looting and plundering away from the spacelanes and more towards corporate boardrooms and political assemblies. CCP has done a pretty spectacular job in creating that backstory.

[Silas Vitalia]

Good points about the angels, but I'll add my standard caviat about TBL mostly being a steaming pile with faction portrayal IMO ;p.   At least I thought they gave sansha and raiders specifically a terrible rendition.  Wasn't a fan of angel asteroid land either now that I think about it....

Silver I'm not sure about where they rank in relation to the empire sub factions.  I'd want to say ishukone has way way way more resources than the Guristas even just by sheer volume of billions of employees in the heart of the state and what that entails. 

I think owning a system in the forge vs out in the middle of null is like the GDP of Nebraska vs NYC. 

[Silver Night]

Hey now, I'm Ishukone 4 life. But my thinking tends to be that the pirate factions (while they certainly have populations in the many billions) have power in a different form, mostly, than megacorps or other 'subfactions'. It is money, cornered (mostly illegal) markets, and webs of influence. It's a piece of every sports bet made off the corporate books and every little baggie an up-and-coming junior executive buys to get him through his next product launch, every special something that isn't available through normal channels or with corporate scrip. Maybe you are right, or maybe it's more that they might rank in the midst of the Megacorps, or the other analogous sub-factions. I think if they do, though, it's near the top and I honestly think if there was a way to make a head-to-head comparison they would come out ahead. I think someone once described the Guristas as the ninth Megacorp, which is probably close to accurate.

  And I think if they were less powerful than those fractions of the empires then they wouldn't still be around. It might vary a bit by pirate faction, too. I'd say probably the Serps are the weakest, or maybe just the closest to being basically a traditional Corp. Blood Raiders, it's kinda hard to tell, but I'd put them and the Sansha up there. Angels are probably the most powerful, though quite possibly the most diffuse. But rather than weakening them I think that jsut makes them that much more pervasive - they've even tried to move in on Gurista turf before (that thing with, who was it, NOH?) 

EOH and Mordu's I would definitely class well below megacorp level.

[Silas Vitalia]

Hey now, I'm Ishukone 4 life. But my thinking tends to be that the pirate factions (while they certainly have populations in the many billions) have power in a different form, mostly, than megacorps or other 'subfactions'. It is money, cornered (mostly illegal) markets, and webs of influence. It's a piece of every sports bet made off the corporate books and every little baggie an up-and-coming junior executive buys to get him through his next product launch, every special something that isn't available through normal channels or with corporate scrip. Maybe you are right, or maybe it's more that they might rank in the midst of the Megacorps, or the other analogous sub-factions. I think if they do, though, it's near the top and I honestly think if there was a way to make a head-to-head comparison they would come out ahead. I think someone once described the Guristas as the ninth Megacorp, which is probably close to accurate.

  And I think if they were less powerful than those fractions of the empires then they wouldn't still be around. It might vary a bit by pirate faction, too. I'd say probably the Serps are the weakest, or maybe just the closest to being basically a traditional Corp. Blood Raiders, it's kinda hard to tell, but I'd put them and the Sansha up there. Angels are probably the most powerful, though quite possibly the most diffuse. But rather than weakening them I think that jsut makes them that much more pervasive - they've even tried to move in on Gurista turf before (that thing with, who was it, NOH?) 

EOH and Mordu's I would definitely class well below megacorp level.

"The 9th Megacorp" I like that a lot, agree!

I don't hold the Blood Raiders up at Sansha levels at all, at least as far as force projection or actually going toe-to-toe with any of the big 4 navies.

I definitely put the Sansha at the top of the pew pew list, they really are more 'borg' like for lack of a better reference; showing up out of nowhere with ridiculous firepower and exotic high-tech technology, forcing an immediate mobilization of major defensive firepower before sucking up millions of people in some nightmare hellscape of floating bodies.   They actively engage tons of locations in normally 'secure' space and at least according to the PF seriously freak everyone out all over the cluster.

The Raiders might have more numbers in absolute terms but I liken them more to the Dark Eldar from 40k if you are familiar; basically hit and run pirates swooping in to nab people and then swooping out before any serious defensive fleets show up.  I always get the impression that most of the pirate factions are on the run from the big four, not the other way around, except for the Sansha, which are pro-actively offensive and the big 4 are playing defense.

In other words if you are on any random high sec planet in the Empire you aren't likely to see Blood Raider ships swooping down and pillaging, but there is a much higher chance of a random wormhole opening up spewing out Sansha Battleships and your day being summarily ruined.

Now if you are in say, low-sec Khanid or Empire, your local Holder / Militia is probably constantly fighting Raiders

[Silver Night]

I would tend to agree on the Blooders vs the Sansha. Also there are Rogue Drones which is sort of an interesting case since other than combat and claiming territory they don't project power in any other traditional way really and maybe don't count in this discussion - or maybe do?

[Blue spy]

I would tend to agree on the Blooders vs the Sansha. Also there are Rogue Drones which is sort of an interesting case since other than combat and claiming territory they don't project power in any other traditional way really and maybe don't count in this discussion - or maybe do?

The rogue drones seem to be more like an entity that everybody in the universe has to deal with. You cannot negotiate with them, nor do they have any kind of motivations or stopping point. I think lore-wise rogue drones look at human ships, colonies, and stations the same way they look at asteroids; as potential sources of resources to grow and expand, and not as any kind of threat which would call for conflict. Although that's for now. Given that small clusters of them can shut down systems, a large enough gathering of them could present a serious threat to any empire.

[Ghost Hunter]

Just off the cuff in my mind:

My opinions only, can't find PF to back this up off top of my head:

Rankings total outright military pew pew strength:
Sansha's Nation
Guristas
Angels
Blood Raiders
Serpentis
Mordu's Legion
EoM


Economic Strength:
Guristas
Angels
Serpentis
Mordu's Legion
Blood Raiders
EoM
Sansha's Nation (they don't participate/trade with the cluster proper per se so they aren't really included)


"Terrorist" effect on target populace
Sansha's Nation
Blood Raiders
EoM
Serpentis
Angels
Guristas
Mordu's Legion

Integration with the big 4 as far as economy/trade/buying-selling stuff
Serpentis
Mordu's Legion
Guristas
Angels
Blood Raiders
EoM
Sansha

Interesting topic!

I'd generally agree with this except swapping Guristas and Angels in 'total military strength'. Both of them are fairly traditional, but while the Guristas probably have the most money, the Angels have the most 'mass by volume'. It's a very quality vs quantity scale of affairs, so they're pretty close.

The Nation probably trumps due to the incredibly scary technology potential they have, but are restrained in application. Frankly, Incursions threw their power curve all over the place and it still isn't clear the extent of its power. Wormhole technology alone, being able to indiscriminately create them, is a strategic ace in the hole. Properly utilized they win, just out right, in defeating everything. But we don't know how it works, if it has limits, or what not ... so it's a moot point to consider.

[Gottii]

I kinda think of the pirate factions of EVE being analogous to ISIS in the real world. 

A weird mixture of crime, terrorism, and statehood.

[Silas Vitalia]

Perhaps as a counterbalance they are more like CONCORD in that they seem much more massive due to instantly being anywhere, so maybe it's more sleight of hand? 

I'm still a fan of rotating the incursion mechanics in new ways for all the pirate factions and having themed expansions with plot content around each....

[Lyn Farel]

Don't forget either that Cartel, probably their elite forces, have access to all those fancy old jove tech they based most of their ships on.

Also, Sansha apparently are in an all out war with sleepers in Thera and maybe also around, considering the amount of wreckage that is found here...

[Samira Kernher]

I don't really see Sansha as a pirate faction tbh. They strike me more as an independent empire, and they were regarded as such by the other empires when they first started.


As far as the other pirate factions? I'd put Angel Cartel as the most powerful in economic might and military projection by sheer domination of the market and a lucky break in terms of having access to some jove tech. But Guristas are the most technologically-minded and probably supply a good deal of tech to the other groups. Guristas have always struck me as the illegal arms dealers type, especially with their recent lore.

Blooders are just cultists, and probably the most proper 'raidery' of the bunch, though they do have some level of biology and genetic research going on (in comparison to Guristas's military research and Serpentis's drug development).


How massive are the factions? They're big enough to control and govern colonies on rim worlds, so they're not "just" pirates, they're probably closer to criminal-controlled "third world" states in New Eden. None is a challenge for any of the empires in a straight fight, but they do have plenty of political power.