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[orange]

10/10 - thread has delivered thus far.

As someone who has taken a few months off, is bittervet, liquidating null assets, and considering a shift back to his old stomping grounds I have come to a few conclusions for my direction of RP.

1) There is a clear need for "squeaky-clean" Caldari Patriot organization 

2) I know how and have the desire to create revenue streams. 

3) I have the RP history to leverage Pyre  (it would involve shooting people)

[Ché Biko]

Ok, I am impressed with this discussion. I think the community will benefit from just being able to speak our minds, and even a bit of our passionate hearts. I think we can pat ourselves on the shoulder here.

I find that when you go through a hard time for the same reasons your character is going through a hard time, it can be a very rewarding experience, more so than when your feeling all good about the IC situation OOCly. This applies to not being able to fly with anyone (you like) because of character consistency, and to having to work alongside characters your char despises, because it (almost?) literrally puts you in your character's shoes, it's like you are facing the challenges alongside your char. It doesn't get much more immersive than that. But I can understand that for some, that level of immersion is not to their taste.

I'll have to echo that stuff goes on that is not put on display a lot in the IGS and other places.
Characters complaining about Ston's Matriculation thread has not encouraged Ché to raise the C3SRC flag to that level. Far from it. I think others may have similar reasons for not raising their flags. Even if they would have good reasons for raising their flags because their group is small or even just one player playing with himself. 

I'll end with writing that this thread sometimes made me smile, because some of you are complaining about being in situations I actually voluntarily put my char into because "Conflict! Yay! A chance for char development and non-stagnancy!"
I'm not saying I don't empathize with y'all, but I hope you understand this is a bit funny from my perspective.

[John Revenent]

I have always seen a general lack in loyalists, or at least ones who stick with it. So its nothing new.

Probably because loyalist RP is very restrictive. You limit yourself to 1/4 or 1/2 of all the high and low-sec regions, constantly spout the same slogans like a broken record and maybe even restrict your ship choices. Throw in the fact that you will need to either stop training this loyalist character to train that other character to do whatever or buy another account for the sake of consistently loyal behaviour in the RP character and you get something that is, let's be honest, pretty not fun. And it's not like you can just get to become good at whatever you want to do within just one year either, unless what you want to do is frigate solo combat every day all day, making the transition a bit problematic.

It's basically why I did not make my character a loyalist but instead a privateer. That way if I ever get sick of doing that privateering thing I could just hang in or simply shred that letter of marquee and go take on some other adventure.

While everyone is welcome to their opinions I think this is a little off on how loyalist RP works. At least in I-RED's history.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

For me it was all very simple. I'm not an old-guard player, I've (only) been around for a couple of years and when I joined there was really only one corporation that did what I decided I wanted to do.

2 years down the line, Pyre had to make a decision as to whether it stayed a five man Caldari Loyalist Fac War corp that basically lived or died on the amount of free time our main FC had - or did it change.

It changed and in every month since it has done so, it has basically smashed its records for activity and the content provided for its members.

My choice was, do I leave my friends, do I abandon my Corporation and rewrite THAT part of my character or do I stay in Pyre and accept that Pieter is not going to be the Caldari Loyalist that I wanted him to be?

It's tough. Roleplaying is starting to become something that I do TO people, not with them. I don't enjoy the direction my character has gone in, but my attempts to distance myself from the people who are my friends and the content that makes me enjoy logging into Eve have been disastrous. Every attempt to quit has led to me taking a timeout from the game.

Perhaps if this squeaky-clean Caldari Loyalist FW corp starts up and if it can match it's ideals with a good standard of violencing spaceboats, I'll finally be able to look elsewhere for my fix but, as things stand, it's "My Company - Right or Wrong". And that's a LITTLE bit Caldari, right?

[kalaratiri]

This is purely my own experience and opinion. I basically quit RP in June of '12. This is when I went on a 18-24 month break from Eve. When I came back, both Eve and RP had changed. I couldn't really find the required effort to get back into the much more critical and toxic scene, so I didn't. I changed Kala's character and had her join up with the Angels and PYRE, and I can honestly say this is the most fun I've ever had in the game. These days I'm a member of the RP scene by association rather than any actual input. I'm honestly not seeing anything that makes me want to change this.

[orange]

My choice was, do I leave my friends, do I abandon my Corporation and rewrite THAT part of my character or do I stay in Pyre and accept that Pieter is not going to be the Caldari Loyalist that I wanted him to be?

...

Perhaps if this squeaky-clean Caldari Loyalist FW corp starts up and if it can match it's ideals with a good standard of violencing spaceboats, I'll finally be able to look elsewhere for my fix but, as things stand, it's "My Company - Right or Wrong". And that's a LITTLE bit Caldari, right?

No, because of the last bit.  They are your company at this point.

If you are referencing what I said about squeaky-clean, I wasn't thinking FW.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

I dunno why people refer to hardcore RP as "toxic". It's just a matter of taste. It's not for everyone (and coming to that realization can be awkward and unpleasant) but it's neither better nor worse then laid back stuff.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

No, because of the last bit.  They are your company at this point.

If you are referencing what I said about squeaky-clean, I wasn't thinking FW.

Ah well. I haven't seen anything in null that really interests me at this point  AND, once again, there really isn't any other Corp doing what I wanna do.

[Elmund Egivand]

I dunno why people refer to hardcore RP as "toxic". It's just a matter of taste. It's not for everyone (and coming to that realization can be awkward and unpleasant) but it's neither better nor worse then laid back stuff.

It is only toxic when it gets to 'Stop having fun guys!' and ideal-pushing.

[kalaratiri]

I dunno why people refer to hardcore RP as "toxic". It's just a matter of taste. It's not for everyone (and coming to that realization can be awkward and unpleasant) but it's neither better nor worse then laid back stuff.

I'm not referring to hardcore RP as toxic. I was in GRD for 10 months, and I didn't even know the summit existed for the first 6. I have absolutely nothing against hardcore RP. From what I've seen in the last 4 months, since I came back the RP community in general is considerably angrier with itself than it used to be. All of it, casual or not.

[Liuni Kalthis]

Orginal Post Moderated


Eh I made my views on a certain sub-sec of PYRE clear. As I said multiple times last night its not because of them being sansha but their ooc actions, and my ooc reactions.

Do I dislike Pyre as a whole? No, hell I still like Zanzi he hasn't tried to get me to second guess friends and we generally have a good talk when we are on together. Do I dislike Pieter? Hell no. Do I dislike Des? Only when I'm flying a catalyst and she primaries me.... Do I dislike Kala? No she dishes it out as good as she takes it. (The rest of the Pyre people I haven't met)

As for the sub-sec: Do I dislike some of the things TS-F did:

First the part about the moderation of OOC and other channels; especially ts-f public. While yes it is their channel and they have every right to pick and choose who can be there, as a person who thought we had some good RP with liuni or at least us talking about lore. It was fun while it lasted, only to also be on an alt and have someone (Also in the killmail further below) say they did it on a whim still can urk someone; and again the rest of their leadership standing by the decision....I believe most here would find that an annoyance and harmful to RP especially when none of the rules were broken IC or oocly. But in the context of the following two points, probably a minor one.

What recently happened to make me just write them off while in Pyre was the fact that a friend ValentinaDM decided to join them because they wanted to do more factionwar and stay in frigates instead of TISHU's bigger doctrines. The Scopeworks was sad to see her go but we wish her well and still do, and even request updates with cheer leading parties. However the day it happened someone I thought of as a friend, who kept me playing eve when the times were tough yet then joined ts-f decided to try and form a wedge between ValentinaDM and myself by saying things like she was a spy the entire time; "how does it feel to be tricked" and generally being a horrid anti-diplomat and antagonist on the verge of being comical if it wasn't an honest try. (You know who you are) Again, that srs rp 'why do people hate us?'

The main problem with what happened that made myself and scopeworks mad before there even was a scope works was https://zkillboard.com/kill/35788890/ Where Deadrow lured Avio (New to pc gaming in the first place) into their system with the -OOC- promise of learning how to rat and PVE. Instead, as you see they blapped him. Now, many might be saying he should have known better he couldn't; it was even and the guy was a mid-teen at the time new to the game with the promise of maybe making a new friend or two with the help of Deadrow telling him now to fit things. What compounded this was that the TS-F corporation instead of saying "Sorry, there is one jerk in every circle" instead laughed at him for a couple months (Along with OOC channel trolling) and even to this day (This week) basically hold the standard of "he should have known better" where even most alliances now teach new people and don't pull such mean tactics.

If there is ever a way to make sure no new people come to eve and no new RPers come out to play; -that- is the way to do it.

As I said before the rewrite of this post. I don't hate Pyre's RP, I don't hate what they do in FW, or how they fly. However, the subsect of people that they recruited do have my eye and not for their IC as they claim but because of these issues and multiple small ones which might seem petty to some until they are compounded with the three main ones I have listed.

In conclusion the thought that Pyre is ruining RP is a very limiting thought when CCP has opened up the game mechanic to anyone and everyone without the ability to even shoot the circling outposts. However, with the previous talk about the 'old guard' and the 'new guard' duking it out; nothing brings it to the head as a new RPer coming to EVE from DUST514 and console gaming only to be blapped by TS-F in the height of their moderating days. Unfortunately that is what seemed to culminate my 2014 with RP, repairing the damage done to new players and the 'we aren't all like that' which has to happen way too often when I mention eve on steam or on other games. I am hoping for a better 2015 and I think it will happen with posts from Kala and updates from Valentina saying Pyre is welcoming to new people (Pyre is expanding like no tomorrow) and other corps having a newer person devision instead of 'lol freshmeat time to troll'


TL:DR

People hurt a newbie to game and rp, for months
Newbie get upset which upsets other newbies
upset newbies leave game
less content for all
Eve becomes alts playing with alts

Let's not repeat this


 

[Gaven Lok ri]

I have always seen a general lack in loyalists, or at least ones who stick with it. So its nothing new.

Probably because loyalist RP is very restrictive. You limit yourself to 1/4 or 1/2 of all the high and low-sec regions, constantly spout the same slogans like a broken record and maybe even restrict your ship choices. Throw in the fact that you will need to either stop training this loyalist character to train that other character to do whatever or buy another account for the sake of consistently loyal behaviour in the RP character and you get something that is, let's be honest, pretty not fun. And it's not like you can just get to become good at whatever you want to do within just one year either, unless what you want to do is frigate solo combat every day all day, making the transition a bit problematic.

It's basically why I did not make my character a loyalist but instead a privateer. That way if I ever get sick of doing that privateering thing I could just hang in or simply shred that letter of marquee and go take on some other adventure.

As far as I know, PIE is the only loyalist corp that has this restrictive a policy. It is *far* from normal for an empire loyalist corp to be as restrictive as PIE is.

We do it for some very good reasons, but it comes at the cost of driving off a large subset of potential members.

[Mizhara]

I don't see any restrictions besides common sense stuff that "Yeah, we're not going to be flying for Amarr fleets" if you're a MinLoyalist. What ships you fly is up to you, what you do in Eve is up to you. It just gives you a reason to do shit and a handy set of enemies when need be. It provides a framework to build things on, rather than a flat sandbox with nothing to support anything you might want to build.

[Ava Starfire]

Holy fucking threadnaught.

1) To Pyre. You guys rock, keep doing what you're doing. Wish I was there, etc. I admit to some jealousy and frustration with you all at times, because 1) I am envious of the cohesive, skilled group youve made and 2) I cant really join you OR fight you, so I just kind of get to sit back and watch, but you're all having fun, and that is great.
2) To the people who want to be pirates and loyalists - no. It doesnt work that way. You can be a pirate with loyalist sympathies, but you cannot claim to be upholding an empire when, well, you dont uphold it. Sorry. Keep having fun regardless. You rock. But youre not RPing loyalists. That doesnt mean you shouldnt do it! Just expect some teeth gnashing, most of which I understand.
3) To the community in general: Sometimes, the IC/OOC divide has to be broken. Sometimes, it hurts. I spent six months as New Eden's Most Hated for the whole Coleile mess, which was, you know, CCP's story, not mine. Sorry that I wanted to take part in the ONE live event that both involved minmatar AND was actually at a time i could attend, but I did, and well... it fucking sucked. Sometimes, things happen for OOC reasons; that doesnt give anyone the right to single anyone out for extra RP shunning.
4) To CCP: FW fucking sucks. Period. You have managed to destroy everything about eve i loved, starting with the losec static plexes and ending with FW. Maybe someday you'll unfuck it, but frankly, I don't think I want to wait around, wringing my hands and hoping.

You know what the no 1 source of RP for me is anymore? People RPing NOT RPing with me. In bars, amarr and caldari emote ignoring me. People make a point of telling me i am not invited to RP events. Guess what? THIS ISNT FUN. This brings us back to the whole "oh, just make your own content". Really? I'll just RP with myself, then.

Am I bitter? FUCK YES. Why wouldnt I be?

A lot of people in this thread need to step back and breathe. Me included.

[Ava Starfire]

Doublepoast